Top Law Schools

Hello TLS,

So here I am looking for your wisdom to help me with bidding. Thanks in advance!

MVP, top 35% or so, secondary journal, foreign language ability

My only connections are in my home markets back in Asia – hence I’m only bidding on NYC firms with Asia offices. Here is my bidding list for the top 15:

Mayer
Dewey
Jones Day
Linklaters
Sidley
Cadwalader
A&O
Milbank
clifford chance
Dechert
K&L Gates
Orrick
Sherman & Sterling
hogan lovells
Weil

Feel free to share your thoughts. Thanks!

bump. some input / advice please?

0L here lurking, but could you please include the foreign language that you speak? I would like to follow this thread:D KR/JP/CH? Or is it some exotic Asian language (i.e. Vietnamese, Thai, etc.)?

PLATONiC wrote:0L here lurking, but could you please include the foreign language that you speak? I would like to follow this thread:D KR/JP/CH? Or is it some exotic Asian language (i.e. Vietnamese, Thai, etc.)?

OP here. I speak Chinese. All the firms that I'm bidding on have reasonable presence in this language region - Beijing / Shanghai / HK / Taipei / Singapore. I don't think the language ability will give my any bump beyond my grades, though. I'm just including that to show that it is one of my selection criteria since I have strong desire to work in Asia (family is still there, reasonable ties, etc).

Hmmmm ... if you want to work in Asia eventually, you'll want to work for a few years in the U.S. and then make the move to Asia. Given that you're going to law school in the U.S., you'll be expected to have expertise in U.S. law. However, you won't really get that unless you work in a U.S. law firm for a few years.

Re: your bid list, I think it seems okay given your rank and also given that you're bidding towards NY. However, one problem is that a lot of those firms you listed have had massive layoffs and so there is a risk that you may get no-offered next summer. Try doing a search on "law firm layoff list" and you'll see that many of the listed firms have not just had layoffs, but they've had significant numbers of layoffs. I think you should definitely get something given the size of most NY firm summer classes. However, make sure you're thinking beyond just next summer.

Also, do you have any work experience? Or do you have any connections in Asia (your hometown)? Like do you know people who work in companies in Asia? (This can be invaluable for drumming up business in Asia). Both of these things would probably help out if you're going to Asia.

Language is useful, but given that you're doing U.S. law, it's not as useful as you'd think. It's most useful in terms of being able to interact easily with clients, not so much for your work (which will likely be in English).

Best of luck.

Anonymous User wrote:Hmmmm ... if you want to work in Asia eventually, you'll want to work for a few years in the U.S. and then make the move to Asia. Given that you're going to law school in the U.S., you'll be expected to have expertise in U.S. law. However, you won't really get that unless you work in a U.S. law firm for a few years.

Re: your bid list, I think it seems okay given your rank and also given that you're bidding towards NY. However, one problem is that a lot of those firms you listed have had massive layoffs and so there is a risk that you may get no-offered next summer. Try doing a search on "law firm layoff list" and you'll see that many of the listed firms have not just had layoffs, but they've had significant numbers of layoffs. I think you should definitely get something given the size of most NY firm summer classes. However, make sure you're thinking beyond just next summer.

Also, do you have any work experience? Or do you have any connections in Asia (your hometown)? Like do you know people who work in companies in Asia? (This can be invaluable for drumming up business in Asia). Both of these things would probably help out if you're going to Asia.

Language is useful, but given that you're doing U.S. law, it's not as useful as you'd think. It's most useful in terms of being able to interact easily with clients, not so much for your work (which will likely be in English).

Best of luck.

Why do you think that a firm that has had massive layoffs would then go out and hire too many summers. Makes zero sense to me. If anything, you'd think these are the firms that would be most conservative with their summer hiring. Very curious to understand your reasoning.

I can understand not wanting to go to a firm that you think is shaky, but this has more to do with the risk that the firm disappears than that it no-offers you.

Anonymous User wrote:Hmmmm ... if you want to work in Asia eventually, you'll want to work for a few years in the U.S. and then make the move to Asia. Given that you're going to law school in the U.S., you'll be expected to have expertise in U.S. law. However, you won't really get that unless you work in a U.S. law firm for a few years.

Re: your bid list, I think it seems okay given your rank and also given that you're bidding towards NY. However, one problem is that a lot of those firms you listed have had massive layoffs and so there is a risk that you may get no-offered next summer. Try doing a search on "law firm layoff list" and you'll see that many of the listed firms have not just had layoffs, but they've had significant numbers of layoffs. I think you should definitely get something given the size of most NY firm summer classes. However, make sure you're thinking beyond just next summer.

Also, do you have any work experience? Or do you have any connections in Asia (your hometown)? Like do you know people who work in companies in Asia? (This can be invaluable for drumming up business in Asia). Both of these things would probably help out if you're going to Asia.

Language is useful, but given that you're doing U.S. law, it's not as useful as you'd think. It's most useful in terms of being able to interact easily with clients, not so much for your work (which will likely be in English).



Best of luck.

Thanks a lot for your feedback. I'll definitely look into the layoff issue. Though, TBF, I've sort of decided that I should worry about striking out at OCI before starting to worry about being no-offered / laid off

I do think that it is necessary to start my career as a US lawyer; but I still hope that the firms will decide to land me back to one of the Asia offices eventually - I do not have US residency (green card), and I think it might be mutually beneficial to the firm and to me to send me back to Asia after a few years of training in US.

Anymore comments - esp on the bidding list? Thanks!

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Person wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Hmmmm ... if you want to work in Asia eventually, you'll want to work for a few years in the U.S. and then make the move to Asia. Given that you're going to law school in the U.S., you'll be expected to have expertise in U.S. law. However, you won't really get that unless you work in a U.S. law firm for a few years.

Re: your bid list, I think it seems okay given your rank and also given that you're bidding towards NY. However, one problem is that a lot of those firms you listed have had massive layoffs and so there is a risk that you may get no-offered next summer. Try doing a search on "law firm layoff list" and you'll see that many of the listed firms have not just had layoffs, but they've had significant numbers of layoffs. I think you should definitely get something given the size of most NY firm summer classes. However, make sure you're thinking beyond just next summer.

Also, do you have any work experience? Or do you have any connections in Asia (your hometown)? Like do you know people who work in companies in Asia? (This can be invaluable for drumming up business in Asia). Both of these things would probably help out if you're going to Asia.

Language is useful, but given that you're doing U.S. law, it's not as useful as you'd think. It's most useful in terms of being able to interact easily with clients, not so much for your work (which will likely be in English).

Best of luck.

Why do you think that a firm that has had massive layoffs would then go out and hire too many summers. Makes zero sense to me. If anything, you'd think these are the firms that would be most conservative with their summer hiring. Very curious to understand your reasoning.

I can understand not wanting to go to a firm that you think is shaky, but this has more to do with the risk that the firm disappears than that it no-offers you.

i was kind of thinking the same thing.

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NYAssociate wrote:

i was kind of thinking the same thing.

All things being equal, it's better to go to a firm that hasn't done layoffs over a firm that has. It's that simple.

of course, credited, it just feels viscerally wrong at this stage of the summer to be getting picky. but of course that's part of the fear/panic as well. just saying, I know where that poster/the OP are coming from . . .

.

Re: why law firms that have had massive layoffs would hire significant summer classes, I don't know. There are plenty of reasons.

1) [positive view] Law firm laid off the "bad" associates and now wants to refill its pipeline with new people

2) [negative view] Law firm is poorly managed and so it both overhires and overfires.

3) [positive view] Law firm responded quickly to deteriorating economic conditions and so let go of many associates. Law firm is now responding quickly again to improving conditions and so is hiring many associates again.

4) [negative view] Law firm is trying to maintain its flagging reputation by hiring a lot of summers. It is trying to maintain its relationship with law schools.

I agree with NYAssociate though that if I'm going to be employed by a law firm, I'd rather have a law firm that has not engaged in a massive firing. To me, that says something about the law firm. The very fact that a law firm is in the position where it needs to let go of a large number of associates says something about how well the firm is run.

I do think it is important to consider the offer rate now (and not later) because it is very hard to find a job 3L fall. Ask any 3Ls last year or any 3Ls this year.

Now to try to end on an encouraging note (and it's hard ITE) ... I do think, nevertheless, the general wisdom is that most firms now intend to hire smaller summer classes in order to maintain a high offer rate. In other words, if you get a firm position at OCI/OGI/OCS this fall, you're probably in decent shape.

Best of luck OP with bidding. I think everyone is hoping that this year is better than last year.

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