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Hey all,

I am wondering what the chances are at OCIP for someone with mostly Ps at Boalt and pretty solid w/e before and during law school. I am particularly looking for Boalties who have already gone through OCIP to weigh in. I don't care about prestige and am not concerned with going to the top firms, if that helps. Also, I am not looking in CA - I am looking only at NY firms. Any advice would be appreciated.

If you went to the OCIP meetings/presentations, career services said that 30% of 1Ls got a job at OCIP last year. They said to expect about 40-45% of the class getting a job at OCIP this year. In other words, it is not looking good for someone with mostly Ps, since you are probably in the bottom 1/3 of your class.

I'm also looking at NYC, although I am not all P's-ville. However, I do have a lot of P's (ok I confess, way more P's than I care to remember). Have you looked at the list of OCIP firms slated to show up so far? The # of NYC firms this year is better than last year's, but I am not counting on landing a job through OCIP. Especially with my mediocre grades. And probably no CLR either (the write-on was a disaster).

Hence, I am now thinking I should just bid on NYC V10's and V50's and the hell with OCIP. Realistically, I am also exploring markets other than SF, NYC, and LA. But the sad thing with Berkeley OCIP is that there's hardly any non-CA market to count on. I just hope something works out.

My friendly advice: do not bank on OCIP. Why not start now and contact alums in other markets etc.? Good luck!

[let's keep this thread going]

Anonymous User wrote:If you went to the OCIP meetings/presentations, career services said that 30% of 1Ls got a job at OCIP last year. They said to expect about 40-45% of the class getting a job at OCIP this year. In other words, it is not looking good for someone with mostly Ps, since you are probably in the bottom 1/3 of your class.

!!!?

Probably have no business on this thread, but just curious: are their other programs other than OCIP? It was my understanding that at schools in the Boalt range, 50% of students or so got SAs last year. Am I wrong? Missing something?

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If you went to the OCIP meetings/presentations, career services said that 30% of 1Ls got a job at OCIP last year. They said to expect about 40-45% of the class getting a job at OCIP this year. In other words, it is not looking good for someone with mostly Ps, since you are probably in the bottom 1/3 of your class.

!!!?

a few weeks ago, our friends at xo suggested the same thing:

--LinkRemoved--

I think the 1/3 got offers statistic is a bit misleading. As far as I know, somewhere around 1/4 to 1/3 of students don't do OCI because we have a lot of public interest people. There are some more who do it but only bid on a couple of firms they want because they primarily want government/public interest stuff.
I have no idea if that 1/3 getting offers statistic is for the people who did OCI or for the class overall. If it's for the class overall, your chances might be better than you think then.

Very interested in this thread. As a transfer I am assuming I will be looked at as a "all P's" student. Any information about what to expect or strategy from this position would be very helpful.

JPU wrote:Very interested in this thread. As a transfer I am assuming I will be looked at as a "all P's" student. Any information about what to expect or strategy from this position would be very helpful.

I would not assume this. As an employer looking to hire a future Berkeley grad who has transferred in from another school, I would evaluate him using his academic record at the other school, and his engineering academic record (for IP), and take into account that he will complete the remainder of his legal training/clinics/journal work at Berkeley.

I would think it would be a two-part question, 1) where did you go to law school before, and 2) how did you do compared to the students at that law school.

The same interviewers at Berkeley are likely going to Stanford, UCLA, UC-X, etc. You're not competing against other Berkeley students for jobs, you're competing against law school students from every law school that the specific office of the specific law firm is seeking to employ at.

yellowjacket2012 wrote:

JPU wrote:Very interested in this thread. As a transfer I am assuming I will be looked at as a "all P's" student. Any information about what to expect or strategy from this position would be very helpful.

I would not assume this. As an employer looking to hire a future Berkeley grad who has transferred in from another school, I would evaluate him using his academic record at the other school, and his engineering academic record (for IP), and take into account that he will complete the remainder of his legal training/clinics/journal work at Berkeley.

I would think it would be a two-part question, 1) where did you go to law school before, and 2) how did you do compared to the students at that law school.

The same interviewers at Berkeley are likely going to Stanford, UCLA, UC-X, etc. You're not competing against other Berkeley students for jobs, you're competing against law school students from every law school that the specific office of the specific law firm is seeking to employ at.

Ya, my issue is that I doubt any employer at OCIP will be recruiting at my old school or even familiar with it. So I am trying to "normalize" my statistics to get a sense of what I can expect.

JPU wrote: Ya, my issue is that I doubt any employer at OCIP will be recruiting at my old school or even familiar with it. So I am trying to "normalize" my statistics to get a sense of what I can expect.

Gotcha. West coast school?

PM

Interested in this as well. I am in 1H and 5P land. Not the best position to be in, but hoping my tech bakcground/WE can make up for something.

rayiner wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If you went to the OCIP meetings/presentations, career services said that 30% of 1Ls got a job at OCIP last year. They said to expect about 40-45% of the class getting a job at OCIP this year. In other words, it is not looking good for someone with mostly Ps, since you are probably in the bottom 1/3 of your class.

!!!?

T11?

KMaine wrote:Probably have no business on this thread, but just curious: are their other programs other than OCIP? It was my understanding that at schools in the Boalt range, 50% of students or so got SAs last year. Am I wrong? Missing something?

? Boalt placed, on average, around 55% into biglaw during the boom years of 2005/2006. There's no way it's placing the same amount now.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm also looking at NYC, although I am not all P's-ville. However, I do have a lot of P's (ok I confess, way more P's than I care to remember). Have you looked at the list of OCIP firms slated to show up so far? The # of NYC firms this year is better than last year's, but I am not counting on landing a job through OCIP. Especially with my mediocre grades. And probably no CLR either (the write-on was a disaster).

Hence, I am now thinking I should just bid on NYC V10's and V50's and the hell with OCIP. Realistically, I am also exploring markets other than SF, NYC, and LA. But the sad thing with Berkeley OCIP is that there's hardly any non-CA market to count on. I just hope something works out.

If you have mainly Ps, you should bid A LOT lower than V10s and V50s.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm also looking at NYC, although I am not all P's-ville. However, I do have a lot of P's (ok I confess, way more P's than I care to remember). Have you looked at the list of OCIP firms slated to show up so far? The # of NYC firms this year is better than last year's, but I am not counting on landing a job through OCIP. Especially with my mediocre grades. And probably no CLR either (the write-on was a disaster).

Hence, I am now thinking I should just bid on NYC V10's and V50's and the hell with OCIP. Realistically, I am also exploring markets other than SF, NYC, and LA. But the sad thing with Berkeley OCIP is that there's hardly any non-CA market to count on. I just hope something works out.

If you have mainly Ps, you should bid A LOT lower than V10s and V50s.

The issue is that, I am sure it follows a trend, but I know multiple people who had mostly or all Ps and have jobs at V20 firms. Not saying that is the norm, or should be expected, but makes it hard to know how to bid.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm also looking at NYC, although I am not all P's-ville. However, I do have a lot of P's (ok I confess, way more P's than I care to remember). Have you looked at the list of OCIP firms slated to show up so far? The # of NYC firms this year is better than last year's, but I am not counting on landing a job through OCIP. Especially with my mediocre grades. And probably no CLR either (the write-on was a disaster).

Hence, I am now thinking I should just bid on NYC V10's and V50's and the hell with OCIP. Realistically, I am also exploring markets other than SF, NYC, and LA. But the sad thing with Berkeley OCIP is that there's hardly any non-CA market to count on. I just hope something works out.

If you have mainly Ps, you should bid A LOT lower than V10s and V50s.

The issue is that, I am sure it follows a trend, but I know multiple people who had mostly or all Ps and have jobs at V20 firms. Not saying that is the norm, or should be expected, but makes it hard to know how to bid.

URM? IP? Impressive WE? It's definitely not the norm.

OP here. I was just hoping to get some insight. The career office keeps telling me it's not even worth trying at OCIP, and I am not going to get anything. I appreciate their cautious approach, but their role is supposed to be to help me strategize for getting a job, not to tell me it's all doomed.

Anonymous User wrote:

KMaine wrote:Probably have no business on this thread, but just curious: are their other programs other than OCIP? It was my understanding that at schools in the Boalt range, 50% of students or so got SAs last year. Am I wrong? Missing something?

? Boalt placed, on average, around 55% into biglaw during the boom years of 2005/2006. There's no way it's placing the same amount now.

There is a difference between those that could get a big law 2L SA and those that started at one. Look a your school's GPA/callback charts from '07. Throughout the T14, people in the bottom third were getting several callbacks.

Now I'm not saying that Boalt placed 50%. But your argument is illogical. Eg: CLS placed 70% NLJ250 (at graduation) during the boom -- And we have good data that says they placed 67% 2L SAs this year.

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I was just hoping to get some insight. The career office keeps telling me it's not even worth trying at OCIP, and I am not going to get anything. I appreciate their cautious approach, but their role is supposed to be to help me strategize for getting a job, not to tell me it's all doomed.

At least the career office is being honest. You should still try at OCIP, but don't expect to get anything.

If you have ties to any secondary markets, I would mail those. You probably won't get any primary markets.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm also looking at NYC, although I am not all P's-ville. However, I do have a lot of P's (ok I confess, way more P's than I care to remember). Have you looked at the list of OCIP firms slated to show up so far? The # of NYC firms this year is better than last year's, but I am not counting on landing a job through OCIP. Especially with my mediocre grades. And probably no CLR either (the write-on was a disaster).

Hence, I am now thinking I should just bid on NYC V10's and V50's and the hell with OCIP. Realistically, I am also exploring markets other than SF, NYC, and LA. But the sad thing with Berkeley OCIP is that there's hardly any non-CA market to count on. I just hope something works out.

If you have mainly Ps, you should bid A LOT lower than V10s and V50s.

The issue is that, I am sure it follows a trend, but I know multiple people who had mostly or all Ps and have jobs at V20 firms. Not saying that is the norm, or should be expected, but makes it hard to know how to bid.

URM? IP? Impressive WE? It's definitely not the norm.

This. I am IP person as well, and was also told to not bother with OCIP by the career center if my grades didn't improve in spring (which they didn't - actually got worse). However, the only way I am not doing OCIP is if I get an offer before OCIP. Probably would do OCIP just for the hell of it anyways, just to see what I can get.

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I was just hoping to get some insight. The career office keeps telling me it's not even worth trying at OCIP, and I am not going to get anything. I appreciate their cautious approach, but their role is supposed to be to help me strategize for getting a job, not to tell me it's all doomed.

Does the career office ever give good advice though? Most of the stuff I've heard from them isn't very helpful. I have no idea whether they're right or not, but just because the CDO tells you something doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Dropped in to say good luck to you guys. I agree with worldtraveler (it's always worth a shot).

On a somewhat unrelated note, Berkeley, and a hell of a lot of other schools, should really think about using the downturn as an excuse to move their grading systems back to something employers can rely on to distinguish the middle part of the class. All these attempts to cushion the bottom (not just at Berkeley, but at a lot of other places too) made sense when employers were hiring hand over fist. Now all those "reforms" do is damage people hovering right around the median.

Am I the only one that thinks 40-45% is still GREAT odds at oci? I mean its only 1 means of finding a job and the employers come to you.