my 1L summer firm's crappy attitude, and fellow SA-gunner Forum

[handlebutton]

Was a lucky one to get a SA position post-1L. My firm's partners have an abnoxious "you need us real bad to extend you an offer for next summer" attitude about them. They think I'm at their mercy on this point.

Partners have mentioned, at various points of time, about how they hope to extend "some of us" an offer, and then dangled an assignment before us. There is one gunner who has taken 4 assignments on, whereas the rest of us are doing either 1 or 2 concurrently.

I would like an offer for next summer from this firm, it is a regional mid-size firm and I love the work, not necessarily the firm. I do not want to take on more assignments than I can handle, but is this sort of behavior (gunner) on the SA end, and dick-attitude on the partner's end something other people are observing in their 1L SA gigs?

[smalltown]

You've just described most of corporate America on a day-to-day basis. Assholes are everywhere.

[RVP11]

I don't think the gunner is doing anything wrong, but doing too many assignments might hurt him if he's turning in poor work.

The firm is definitely doing something wrong if they ever want to be viewed as something other than a second-rate firm. Turning a summer associateship into a competition is not the sign of an elite, secure firm.

[thesealocust]

edited / never mind

[06132010]

... My firm's partners have an abnoxious...

jerseyshorelaw?

[OperaSoprano]

... My firm's partners have an abnoxious...

jerseyshorelaw?

[d34d9823]

The "gunner" is just working harder than you, and seems to want it more. Regardless of how we agree or disagree with the morale of the firm, the challenge is simple: "the economy sucks, and we pay awesome money, and if you want it then prove it by busting your ass."

TITCR

I know our educational system doesn't teach you this, but high-end opportunities generally have a "show me how much you want it" element.

The people who say that this kind of explicit expression by the partners is second-rate are right. Make no mistake though, this mentality is present everywhere. At classier firms, it's just more subtle.

[RVP11]

Make no mistake though, this mentality is present everywhere. At classier firms, it's just more subtle.

I doubt the attitude is present everywhere. Classier firms aren't taking more SAs than they intend to permanently hire.

[thesealocust]

edited / never mind

[Anonymous User]

The "gunner" is just working harder than you, and seems to want it more. Regardless of how we agree or disagree with the morale of the firm, the challenge is simple: "the economy sucks, and we pay awesome money, and if you want it then prove it by busting your ass."

This isn't always true in the SA world and him doing more work may not translate into an offer. I know of one specific instance where a c/o 2010 SA at a firm in NYC was the biggest gunner of his SA class was also the only person in the class to get no-offered (this was at a mid-V100 firm in NYC last year). Apparently it wasn't even his work product; his personality was a huge turnoff to the firm.

[bigben]

This firm sucks, but of course that revelation isn't really doing you any good.

As for the work, pretty sure that as a SA, quality >>> quantity.

Don't get caught up in the politics and tomfoolery. Just be nice and do good work.

[bigben]

But even (and sometimes especially) the best firms are hiring more people by a wide margin than they expect to make partner, so I'm sure the same kind of attitude crops up...

This is entirely different. Everyone fully expects most biglaw associates to move on the other pursuits, after having benefited from their stay in the form of salary, experience, and a credential.

On the other hand, the no-offer is sort of a kiss of death. Even without the stigma, there is little or no hope of landing a similar gig as a 3L.

[wiseowl]

once you get to the actual practice of law, gunners are "Partners: Before They Were Famous".

someone needs to make a wolf picture with

IF YOU'RE SLEEPING, YOU'RE NOT WORKING HARD ENOUGH

[swc65]

But even (and sometimes especially) the best firms are hiring more people by a wide margin than they expect to make partner, so I'm sure the same kind of attitude crops up...

This is entirely different. Everyone fully expects most biglaw associates to move on the other pursuits, after having benefited from their stay in the form of salary, experience, and a credential.

On the other hand, the no-offer is sort of a kiss of death. Even without the stigma, there is little or no hope of landing a similar gig as a 3L.

Is not being asked to return to the firm where you spent a 1L summer as bad as getting no-offered as a 2L SA?

[romothesavior]

OP, I wouldn't let this other SA get to you. If he is being an uber-gunner, there is a good chance the partners see it and are snickering behind his back about it. Every lawyer and law student I've talked to about legal employment has said about the same thing: employers know that almost everyone can handle the types of work. They want to know if they can work with you, which is totally different. If this kid is getting stuff done but rubbing everyone the wrong way, then he is potentially hurting himself. If, on the other hand, he is a great guy with a great work ethic and great work product, then he may get a job out of it, but that shouldn't stop you from getting one too.

As for the firm culture, that sucks. It sounds like this wouldn't be a place that you would be happy long-term, and I would imagine this isn't just how they treat SAs. Or maybe it is just a bad partner you're working under, I dunno. But chin up, stick it out, keep working hard, and good luck,

[chitown825]

Have you considered burning down the building?

[thesealocust]

edit: n/m

[Anonymous User]

Two classes of people got no offered at my V50ish NYC office.

1) People who didn't make an effort at social events
2) People who took too many assignments and their work product sucked.

Some people were in both classes.

Take as much work as you can handle, but work product over volume will win the day. Also, attend the freaking social events. The partners do not attend those for giggles.

[bigben]

But even (and sometimes especially) the best firms are hiring more people by a wide margin than they expect to make partner, so I'm sure the same kind of attitude crops up...

This is entirely different. Everyone fully expects most biglaw associates to move on the other pursuits, after having benefited from their stay in the form of salary, experience, and a credential.

On the other hand, the no-offer is sort of a kiss of death. Even without the stigma, there is little or no hope of landing a similar gig as a 3L.

Is not being asked to return to the firm where you spent a 1L summer as bad as getting no-offered as a 2L SA?

Probably not, because at least you have another time at bat as a 2L. But it wouldn't be a picnic either. Any firm you interview with as a 2L will ask you whether you were asked to return to your 1L firm. I sure wouldn't try to lie about that. I suppose a "cold offer" wouldn't be so bad in this situation.