I don't understand this TTT will get you nowhere stuff... Forum

[Anonymous User]

I will start off by saying that while I have not chosen which school I will go to it will probably be considered TTTTTTTTTTTTT on here (ala it will be outside T-14). However these are the only three friends I have that are in law school atm. They have gotten the following for this summer:

1. Friend goes to a USNWR Tier 3 school in a midwest market, has no family connections, is below median at his school and just got a summer position at one of the "Big Four" talent agencies in Los Angeles.
2. Friend goes to a USNWR Tier 4 school, no family connections and will be holding a $16/hr. job at a "BigLaw" firm this summer. He is ranked around 20th in a class size of around 110 or so.
3. Friend goes to a USNWR Tier 3 school in a midwest market, some family connections and will be working a paid summer position at a "BigLaw" firm in that midwest market.


Point: If you don't go to HYS then, despite what TLS says, you actually can get a job between 1L and 2L years.

[booboo]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

[Anonymous User]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

Well said. Although I do believe that many lower-ranked schools get more flack on TLS than they deserve, you shouldn't be counting on a rich job coming out of a TTT. Rankings play such a large role in the law school community for a reason: generally, the higher you go, the easier it is for you to find work and the better the work is that becomes available to you.

[scribelaw]

OP wildly misrepresents what is generally said on TLS.

Most people do not equate, say, a T30 school with a TTT. With manageable debt and realistic career goals, a T30 can be a great choice. Not everything outside the T14 is a TTT.

[Anonymous User]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

I know 3 people that are law students right now. All 3 go to schools in USNWR Tier 3 or Tier 4. They all have, what I would say, are very good summer jobs this summer. Could be coincidence that the only 3 people outside of the Top 100 law schools in the country that have summer jobs are my friends but highly unlikely imo.

[Anonymous User]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

Well said. Although I do believe that many lower-ranked schools get more flack on TLS than they deserve, you shouldn't be counting on a rich job coming out of a TTT. Rankings play such a large role in the law school community for a reason: generally, the higher you go, the easier it is for you to find work and the better the work is that becomes available to you.

Outside of about 20 schools rankings don't mean a whole lot in terms of regional opportunities. Sure a grad from Yale is probably going to get the job at a Miami firm over the grad from Miami but I believe the similar ranked Miami grad is going to get that same job at that Miami firm over an Iowa or Minnesota grad, all things being equal.

[scribelaw]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

I know 3 people. All 3 go to schools in USNWR Tier 3 or Tier 4. They all have, what I would say, are very good summer jobs this summer. Could be coincidence that the only 3 people outside of the Top 100 law schools in the country are my friends but highly unlikely imo.

One of your friends allegedly got a job that pays $16 an hour. Is he/she making copies or getting the coffee? Cuz that's not market rate for summer associates.

[Anonymous User]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

I know 3 people. All 3 go to schools in USNWR Tier 3 or Tier 4. They all have, what I would say, are very good summer jobs this summer. Could be coincidence that the only 3 people outside of the Top 100 law schools in the country are my friends but highly unlikely imo.

One of your friends allegedly got a job that pays $16 an hour. Is he/she making copies or getting the coffee? Cuz that's not market rate for summer associates.

I don't know what market rate is for summer associates and I don't know his duties. All I know is that is A JOB for a student at a school TLS would tell you would be working at McDonalds this summer.

[Darko]

If your friend decides to work full time at that talent agency, he'll be making around $30k starting out, and working in the mail room. Not joking. That's where everyone starts, including freshly minted JDs.

[cardnal124]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

I know 3 people that are law students right now. All 3 go to schools in USNWR Tier 3 or Tier 4. They all have, what I would say, are very good summer jobs this summer. Could be coincidence that the only 3 people outside of the Top 100 law schools in the country that have summer jobs are my friends but highly unlikely imo.

Yes it could be coincidence, and probably is. If all 3 people you knew who went to Vegas came back winners does that mean the odds are with you to win there?

[Anonymous User]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

I know 3 people that are law students right now. All 3 go to schools in USNWR Tier 3 or Tier 4. They all have, what I would say, are very good summer jobs this summer. Could be coincidence that the only 3 people outside of the Top 100 law schools in the country that have summer jobs are my friends but highly unlikely imo.

Yes it could be coincidence, and probably is. If all 3 people you knew who went to Vegas came back winners does that mean the odds are with you to win there?

Depends what games you play.

[Anonymous User]

If your friend decides to work full time at that talent agency, he'll be making around $30k starting out, and working in the mail room. Not joking. That's where everyone starts, including freshly minted JDs.

Oh yeah, I know that. I had always wanted to get into that field as well until I discovered loans, etc and realized there was no way I would be able to pay off any sort of loans with the salaries such a job pays. However, for him his school if paid for (by parents) and I guess he doesn't care to start out there because he is convinced he will be making millions by the time he is 35. I think he is a little naive but who knows?

[cardnal124]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

I know 3 people that are law students right now. All 3 go to schools in USNWR Tier 3 or Tier 4. They all have, what I would say, are very good summer jobs this summer. Could be coincidence that the only 3 people outside of the Top 100 law schools in the country that have summer jobs are my friends but highly unlikely imo.

Yes it could be coincidence, and probably is. If all 3 people you knew who went to Vegas came back winners does that mean the odds are with you to win there?

Depends what games you play.

True. It's the only state in the country that will let a guy be honest with a woman/hooker. You play that game, you're a winner every time...

Unless you get herpes

[vanwinkle]

OP is abusing the anonymous feature and should be de-anonymized.

[sissyclark]

It's not like going to a TTT guarantees that it will get you nowhere, but it's just quite likely. Just because you can name a few exceptions doesn't really mean anything. I have 4 friends right now who dropped out of high school, 2 of them put together a website, 2 put together a business, and all 4 of them make 6 figures easy. Does that mean that dropping out of high school will not get you nowhere (or something to that effect)?

Gotta be logical. Wasn't there a flaw type on the LSAT that mentioned this?

[AngryAvocado]

Let's me get this straight. You "know" 2 people that have secured, at best, mediocre jobs and one person who secured a secondary market biglaw job through connections--and that is supposed to disprove something? I'm pretty sure this agrees with the prevailing opinion here about TTTs.

[MU2009]

It's not like going to a TTT guarantees that it will get you nowhere, but it's just quite likely. Just because you can name a few exceptions doesn't really mean anything. I have 4 friends right now who dropped out of high school, 2 of them put together a website, 2 put together a business, and all 4 of them make 6 figures easy. Does that mean that dropping out of high school will not get you nowhere (or something to that effect)?

Gotta be logical. Wasn't there a flaw type on the LSAT that mentioned this?

I am not searching for exceptions though. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I know that goes to a Tier 3 or Tier 4 (only 3 people, I know) have jobs. The way people talk on here make this seem like it is less than a 1% probability.

[Anonymous User]

Let's me get this straight. You "know" 2 people that have secured, at best, mediocre jobs and one person who secured a secondary market biglaw job through connections--and that is supposed to disprove something? I'm pretty sure this agrees with the prevailing opinion here about TTTs.

Yes. TLS says go to Tier 3 and work at McDonalds. This is wrong as is your statement that the prevailing opinion is correct here.

[Anonymous User]

The problem with lower ranked law schools isn't possibility. It is probability.

TITCR

http://lawfirmaddict2007.blogspot.com/

and many other posts on ATL, TLS, AutoAdmit, etc. Due diligence my friend, due diligence.

"LOOK at all those schools Skadden hired from!!"

Yeah, those kids were in the top 10% of their class, had some sort of connection, had previous work experience in either BigConsulting or IBanking, AND interviewed exceptionally well. You think you got what it takes? LOL. Good luck bud.

EDIT: oh and those numbers are from before the economy went down the tubes.

[Rand M.]

1. Talent agency?
2. 16 dollars/hour? Sorry, that is not worth the first year of foregone life and salary.
3. You considered number 2 to be paid biglaw as well, so I'm not really sure how awesome an opportunity this would be.

I think you have misrepresented what people here say. For the most part it is about how much these schools cost. If the T3 was somewhere like NYLS (which costs entirely too much in the view of many), then the kinds of summer opportunities you are talking about would not be worth it. If someone is attending these institutions for free then that is kind of up to them; most people are definitely not in this position. When you're paying full tuition for some of these higher priced and lower ranked schools only to have similar options as someone without a law degree would have, that does not make sense to many. That is all.

[98234872348]

Why is this anonymous?

[dood]

...

[98234872348]

Why is this anonymous?

no accountability for lies...lol

Seriously. Many T20 students would kill for those type of 1L summer opportunities.

[TTT-LS]

.

[AngryAvocado]

Let's me get this straight. You "know" 2 people that have secured, at best, mediocre jobs and one person who secured a secondary market biglaw job through connections--and that is supposed to disprove something? I'm pretty sure this agrees with the prevailing opinion here about TTTs.

Yes. TLS says go to Tier 3 and work at McDonalds. This is wrong as is your statement that the prevailing opinion is correct here.

That isn't TLS' prevailing opinion. The prevailing opinion is that it the opportunities that a JD from a TTT affords aren't usually worth the cost of attending for most people without connections or without a significant scholarship. Aside from that overwhelming evidence that most people from these schools aren't going to secure high-paying jobs, taking on six figure debt for a chance at a 30k/yr gig or to get paid $16/hr doing document review for a biglaw firm isn't exactly a prudent economic decision so I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove or disprove.