Big City Law Jobs with liveable hours? Forum

[ConsideringLawSchool]

We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.

I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.

Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.

[eth3n]

Isn't the biglaw fear about being pushed out after only a few years and having no real experience and nowhere to go?

So few associates make partner, I am sure its even worse now...

[A'nold]

We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.

I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.

+1.

I think you just seconded someone seconding your opinion. Not that I disagree.

+2

[A'nold]

We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.

I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.

Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.

Look, we get it. You worked 100 + hours a week, went out for 4 hours every night, got drunk, were a great lover, took your dog to the park daily, spent time with your extended family, and managed to do 18 holes at the course each day while maintaining a 2 handicap all the while winning numerous employee of the month awards.

[ConsideringLawSchool]

We were crazy, but it honestly wasn't as bad as you would think. Describes my undergrad years as well--sleep always finished well behind work, extracurriculars, school, friends, and family in my list of priorities. Of course, there were nights when I'd sleep 10 hours in UG, but 2-4 hrs of sleep was much more common.

I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.

Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.

Look, we get it. You worked 100 + hours a week, went out for 4 hours every night, got drunk, were a great lover, took your dog to the park daily, spent time with your extended family, and managed to do 18 holes at the course each day while maintaining a 2 handicap all the while winning numerous employee of the month awards.

Employee of the month?? I was the lazy one relative to my co-workers!

[A'nold]

I'm with A'nold here. Anyone who claims to have consistently worked 100 hrs a week has probably never actually worked in a real job. It's not physically possible. Even potential Navy SEALs don't work that hard all the way through BUDS. I'm not saying that some jobs don't require spurts of 16-18 hour days, and those spurts might even go on for a few weeks, but you could never "average" that much work. You would literally, actually, physically die.

Everyone needs different amounts of sleep. The time period I'm talking about was about 4 months. Granted, those folks who tended to need more sleep went home right after work to sleep. It was only a handful of us who had the bad habit of going out most nights.

Look, we get it. You worked 100 + hours a week, went out for 4 hours every night, got drunk, were a great lover, took your dog to the park daily, spent time with your extended family, and managed to do 18 holes at the course each day while maintaining a 2 handicap all the while winning numerous employee of the month awards.

Employee of the month?? I was the lazy one relative to my co-workers!

Those workaholic bastards!

[adameus]

Check out this link: http://www.averyindex.com/shortest_hour_law_firms.php

People tend to overstate the hours lawyers work. Yes there will be weeks or even months of crazy 80-90 hr weeks at big firms and even in many government positions, but when you average things out it is not terrible. Aside from Cravath and Wachtell, at most big firms associates seem to work an average of between 50 and 60 hrs per week and bill 40-45, not bad given the pay and considering that lawyers seem to count their lunch/dinner breaks as part of those hours.

Holy shit, Cravath and Watchell, I know the pay is great and the work is interesting but it seems you are basically selling your soul to the devil.... Can you really have any quality of life working there?

[T14_Scholly]

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

[Anonymous User]

Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.

[A'nold]

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

Care to enlighten us?

[Renzo]

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

Care to enlighten us?

Don't feed the 0L's

[T14_Scholly]

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

Care to enlighten us?

For example:

"With realistic billable ratios and no fraud, your BigLaw junior associates in New York are probably working ~ 3000."

[Renzo]

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

Care to enlighten us?

For example:

"With realistic billable ratios and no fraud, your BigLaw junior associates in New York are probably working ~ 3000."

You're a know-nothing clown. No one said that in this thread, so you're just shooting off your mouth. 0L's GTFO of the "students and graduates" forum!

[T14_Scholly]

Man, I love the rampant misinformation on TLS.

Care to enlighten us?

For example:

"With realistic billable ratios and no fraud, your BigLaw junior associates in New York are probably working ~ 3000."

You're a know-nothing clown. No one said that in this thread, so you're just shooting off your mouth. 0L's GTFO of the "students and graduates" forum!

You sure?

[Renzo]

You sure?

About which part? That you're a clown -yes. That you should get out-yes. That no one said 3000 hours is a good estimate, mostly, but I didn't go back all the way to the very first post to check.

[Series70]

Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.

Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?

[A'nold]

Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.

Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?

Yeah but don't ADA's get a lot of this stuff?

[Series70]

^ Well, I guess it depends on location. Definitely no overtime, since they're not union and are on salary (which, to be fair, does seem to increase significantly with experience, as with the NYPD). In NYC, benefits and vacation seem good, but I'm not sure about the guns. At least in her book Bronx D.A., Sarena Strauss explains how, much to everyone's disappointment, they were not allowed to carry either guns or badges, as DA Robert T. Johnson decided to do away with such perks. Does anyone know about Manhattan, Brooklyn, or Queens?

[T14_Scholly]

Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.

Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?

You should probably reconsider becoming an ADA. According to recent surveys, ADAs across the nation put in on average 3,000 hours per year. You can do the math to figure out just how much work that is. In addition, due to the recession, states are facing budget crises and public prosecutor's offices are feeling the brunt of it. In many cases, ADAs' benefits are being slashed. Finally, in many cities the criminal underworld views ADAs as on par with the police, and as a result ADAs are often the target of violent crime.

[A'nold]

Me wantz 2 kerry gunz!

[fenderjsm88]

Just a heads up about working at the DAs office. The work is rewarding, arguably unlike biglaw. The hours are exactly the same. I work at a DAs office in a major city, (not as an attorney) and the new ADAs work 14+ hours a day during the week and 10+ over the weekend. Once they get out of magistrate (anywhere from 3 months to over a year) it calms down a little, except during major trials--which are frequent, and then they basically live here. So liveable hours are not to be found, at least not at this office. And of course you're doing this for $30,000-$60,000 a year.

Thanks a lot for the information. I've got my fingers crossed that you're not talking about NYC, where the starting salary for ADAs is up at the top of your range. Seriously, 14+ hours a day? In the office, or work at home as well? And another 10+ over the weekend? Assuming that's 5 hours each on Saturday and Sunday, we're still talking at least 80 hours a week, much more than the average in big law. I mean, my friend at a firm usually does 9-7, with a few hours on the weekend. Yikes.

It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother. Maybe I'll just join the NYPD: I think on average they earn around six figures after 6 years (at least that's what their recruiting posters say). They get overtime, great benefits and vacations, and probably have a much more exciting job. PLUS they get to carry guns on and off duty, and get 50-state wide concealed carry permits (along with ridiculous pensions) once they retire. Hmm. . . why do I want to be an ADA again?

I'm sold. See you at the academy. Maybe we'll be buddy cops!

[fenderjsm88]

Pretty much what our life was. We showed up at 9:00, worked until 1:00, went out until 4:00, then went home, slept, showered, and came back.

Have you kicked the coke habit yet? Or was it speed that allowed you to do that?

haha, we were crazy, but loved it. I miss those days ;-(

You should get a Ryan Howard avatar.

[Series70]

^ Hey, I mean, whatever works for you. Honestly, if you spend your free time watching TV, then you might as well stay at the office and at least get paid for it. Personally, when I go to bed at night, what I regret most is not having spent enough time with my wife. I imagine it'll be the same when I croak in 50 years or so. There's never enough time for that. Ma io sono romantico.

[Renzo]

^ Hey, I mean, whatever works for you. Honestly, if you spend your free time watching TV, then you might as well stay at the office and at least get paid for it. Personally, when I go to bed at night, what I regret most is not having spent enough time with my wife. I imagine it'll be the same when I croak in 50 years or so. There's never enough time for that. Ma io sono romantico.

I love my family, and I enjoy spending time with them, but there is only so much my wife and I have to talk about in any given day. After that, it's mostly staring at each other.

[A'nold]

^ Hey, I mean, whatever works for you. Honestly, if you spend your free time watching TV, then you might as well stay at the office and at least get paid for it. Personally, when I go to bed at night, what I regret most is not having spent enough time with my wife. I imagine it'll be the same when I croak in 50 years or so. There's never enough time for that. Ma io sono romantico.

I love my family, and I enjoy spending time with them, but there is only so much my wife and I have to talk about in any given day. After that, it's mostly staring at each other.

LOL!