Top Firms in Dallas and Difficulty of Employment from MBVN Forum

[SweetnessUVA]

Two questions:
- What are considered the "top" firms in Dallas? I know of Baker & McKensie and Vinson & Ellis must be up there, but not really sure on the tiers of firms in the city.
- What is the difficulty of landing one of these positions from a T10 school (MBVN)? Will median do the job? Better?

I've always been a fan of Dallas and thinking about working there after graduation.

Thanks.

[kurama20]

I assume you attend UVA. You should PM uvalawyer, she works at a top Houston firm and graduated from UVA.

[doyleoil]

dallas and houston are actually not easy markets to land without connections

you'll probably need to be pretty high in the class to land a job if you don't have a really convincing story for why you have to be there

that said, the big three in texas are generally acknowledged to be baker botts, fulbright & jaworski, and vinson & elkins

regional firms with big dallas offices include winstead, gardere, haynes & boone, thompson & knight, and locke lord

international firms with pretty big dallas offices are akin gump and jones day

i'm, of course, leaving out several medium to large offices (patton boggs, gibson dunn, etc.)

with connections, ite, i have no idea how high in the class you have to be

[vanwinkle]

T14 with existing Texas ties (family there, previous residency there, etc.) will have a strong shot at Dallas firms. The thing is they're going to want to pick people who have some reason to be in TX rather than someone who appears to just be going there until the economy recovers and they can try to lateral to NYC/Chicago/etc.

[kurama20]

Well since you did ask for the "top" firms in Dallas you can't leave out Susman Godfrey. I don't know just how top you are at MBVN but if you are super top (like top 5 percent +LR) you should definitely check them out. Their associates have astounding resumes and they often pull in 200K+ in their first years. Susman is one of the few firms in TX that won't be as obsessed with ties--mainly because of how elite they are.

[RVP11]

T14 with existing Texas ties (family there, previous residency there, etc.) will have a strong shot at Dallas firms. The thing is they're going to want to pick people who have some reason to be in TX rather than someone who appears to just be going there until the economy recovers and they can try to lateral to NYC/Chicago/etc.

Yep. I think this might even be the case in virtually every market ITE, with the exceptions of DC/NYC.

[doyleoil]

Well since you did ask for the "top" firms in Dallas you can't leave out Susman Godfrey.

true - although with 13 attorneys, 9 with COA clerkships, 2 with district court clerkships, and 1 with a scotus clerkship, i'm not sure i want to know "my chances" -

[catharsis]

everyone preaches "T14" but i think a huge exception when talking about the Texas market and big law is the University of Texas. theyre outside the "T14" but i'd be more confident coming out of there than a lot of the other "T14" schools for the Texas market.

[Georgiana]

T14 with existing Texas ties (family there, previous residency there, etc.) will have a strong shot at Dallas firms. The thing is they're going to want to pick people who have some reason to be in TX rather than someone who appears to just be going there until the economy recovers and they can try to lateral to NYC/Chicago/etc.

Yep. I think this might even be the case in virtually every market ITE, with the exceptions of DC/NYC.

I agree re: TX, they really really want you to have a connection (e.g. have lived there before and plan on staying long term, NOT "I visited and really liked it").

I disagree a little with the DC/NYC comment. I found that almost everyone asked "Why X city" and I interviewed pretty exclusively DC/LA (with a few NYC IP firms). DC wanted a connection, NYC liked having the connection, LA seems pretty fond of itself so they weren't as strict on the connection but it was still ALWAYS asked (and I didn't have a valid connection and was not given an LA offer, I do have DC connections and was given an offer by a DC firm, I didn't end up going on any NYC CB's once I got my offer).

[jchoggan]

UT definitely has a death grip on most of the biglaw jobs in TX against people without ties. I'm sure Dallas is easier to sneak into with ties from a T14, but what about Austin? Even with ties, how tough is it to crack into that market (considering how small it is)? Any sense on what the best offices are down there?

[The Brainalist]

I assume you attend UVA. You should PM uvalawyer, she works at a top Houston firm and graduated from UVA.

a search for UVA and Houston comes up with this result first. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =4&t=42957

Is this who you are thinking of?

[bigben]

everyone preaches "T14" but i think a huge exception when talking about the Texas market and big law is the University of Texas. theyre outside the "T14" but i'd be more confident coming out of there than a lot of the other "T14" schools for the Texas market.

UT probably does place a lot more grads into TX biglaw than any T14. The only problem is that 100% of UT students are gunning for TX biglaw. How many get it? I don't know, probably less than 20% ITE. From any given T14 you might only have a handful of students trying for TX so you probably have a better shot, assuming you have ties.

[vanwinkle]

everyone preaches "T14" but i think a huge exception when talking about the Texas market and big law is the University of Texas. theyre outside the "T14" but i'd be more confident coming out of there than a lot of the other "T14" schools for the Texas market.

UT probably does place a lot more grads into TX biglaw than any T14. The only problem is that 100% of UT students are gunning for TX biglaw. How many get it? I don't know, probably less than 20% ITE. From any given T14 you might only have a handful of students trying for TX so you probably have a better shot, assuming you have ties.

Yeah, this. A lot of T14 grads don't go to TX because 1) they self-select away from there or 2) they don't have ties there that convince the TX firms they're interested in sticking around. Law firms in TX can find a lot of UT grads if they want them, but finding a T14 grad with TX ties is going to be relatively rare to them.

[RVP11]

If you're from TX, you're probably a lot better off going for TX BigLaw from MVPBDN, etc. than from UT.

[helvidius2010]

If you're from TX, you're probably a lot better off going for TX BigLaw from MVPBDN, etc. than from UT.

Probably true for MVPB, but not for DNCG.

Regarding the previous post regarding Austin, it is much tougher than Dallas/Houston; you'd better be HYSCCN or on law review at UT.

[RVP11]

Regarding the previous post regarding Austin, it is much tougher than Dallas/Houston; you'd better be HYSCCN or on law review at UT.

I've heard the same. Austin's a great place - the firms there really have their pick of the very top UT grads.

In the good economy, I heard from UT people that Dallas and Houston were like the fallback markets where people went if they couldn't get NYC/DC/Austin.

[jchoggan]

Regarding the previous post regarding Austin, it is much tougher than Dallas/Houston; you'd better be HYSCCN or on law review at UT.

I've heard the same. Austin's a great place - the firms there really have their pick of the very top UT grads.

In the good economy, I heard from UT people that Dallas and Houston were like the fallback markets where people went if they couldn't get NYC/DC/Austin.

I could definitely see Dallas/Houston being fallbacks... Austin is a cool city.

In terms of the HYSCCN comment, are you saying those would be required even WITH strong ties to Austin, or do you think that would broaden the recruiting?

[Esc]

Some quick Martindale searching in turning up these results for the Baker Botts Austin Office, one of the largest Biglaw offices in Austin. With 55 attorneys total, UT dominates it with 35 (or possibly 36, see possible misprint below). The T14 only account for 6 of the 55 attorneys.

Baker Botts Austin Office Total Attorneys: 55
UT Law: 35
Houston: 3
Harvard: 2
UVA: 2
Columbia: 1
NYU: 1
SMU: 1
GWU: 1
U Oregon: 1
Ohio State: 1
Arizona State: 1
U South Carolina: 1
Syracuse: 1
Denver: 1
Tulsa: 1
Pace: 1
UT Dallas (Misprint for UT Austin? UT Dallas doesn't have a law school): 1

I notice that a lot of the lower T1 and T2 graduates were partners, FWIW. Given that the graduates for those lower schools outnumbered the T14 grads, I would venture a guess that for someone without a UT degree Austin ties are essential, T14 degree or no. FWIW, of the 6 T14 graduates, 4 did their undergrad at UT, and 1 did undergrad at Baylor in Waco.

The Vinson & Elkins office had 25 UT grads out of 38 attorneys. I didn't go fishing for the other schools' numbers, though.

[Snooker]

I second the tough market thing. Most people visiting a Texas city don't have a great impression of it. There's definitely very nice places to live in Texas cities, but 99% of people will just see the endless billboard sprawl and concrete on a visit... Or they will settle down in some remote, god-forsaken corner of the city and hate it.

[Anonymous User]

Re: this issue...would URMs at MBVN have a better chance in the TX market (with no connections)? I really do love TX and have been there to visit family (cousins, aunts), but don't have any close family or other connections there. I definitely plan on working and living there after law school (and requested the TX firm for SEO Corporate Law)..any advice on this? Would I have to be top 10% at V?

Edit: I'm from the Northeast and have lived here my whole life. Also went to undergrad in NE.

[kurama20]

Re: this issue...would URMs at MBVN have a better chance in the TX market (with no connections)? I really do love TX and have been there to visit family (cousins, aunts), but don't have any close family or other connections there. I definitely plan on working and living there after law school (and requested the TX firm for SEO Corporate Law)..any advice on this? Would I have to be top 10% at V?

Edit: I'm from the Northeast and have lived here my whole life. Also went to undergrad in NE.

Beg SEO to put you at Vinson if you land the spot--that would probably do it. Susman Godfrey actually won't care that you aren't from Texas---you just need sky high grades and some type of journal--if you have that they would hire you regardless of TX ties. UVA is probably the most Texas centric top 14 anyway, so that's good.

[vanwinkle]

Edit: I'm from the Northeast and have lived here my whole life. Also went to undergrad in NE.

Tell them you want to move to Texas because it's the greatest state on Earth and you want to get away from all the filthy hippies back home. They'll hire you in a heartbeat.