Top Law Schools

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:19 am

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Fri Mar 08, 2024 1:01 am

Yeah I wonder how much of these numbers are just HLS/CLS/NYU. Yale/Stanford/Chicago are 600ish students total, while HLS/CLS/NYU approachs 1500 combined.

Anecdotally, SLS only sends maybe 10 total to Cravath/S&C NYC/WLRK per year.

I don't care about the outcome here at all but . . . of course the smaller schools send less people than larger schools? If you're trying to figure out how ~~prestigious~~ these places are, wouldn't it be a question of what % of those schools are going to these firms

Well then for SLS it's ~5% (granted, Cravath/S&C NYC aren't really seen as particularly more desirable outcomes than the other V10s in NYC to us--the only major NY firm that's stand-out is WLRK, and DPW/K&E/Sidley/etc all nab a few people).

yeah, just based on friends it seems like a lot of people from my class were choosing between CSM, S&C and DPW, which were all viewed pretty interchangeably, and people went to any of the 3 based on individual factors.

Disagree abt the K&E thing, seemed like if anything people actively avoided KE NYC

There are people who got into CSM and chose SullCrom and DPW?? Wild

1) yes duh.
2) every thread on TLS does not have to turn into a CSM is better than everyone thread. if you're at CSM and using this as an opportunity to feel better, it has the opposte effect. However, in the spirit of getting more money, if DPW and S&C do not match Cravath's new clerkship bonus numbers I will absolutely start treating Cravath as the better.

Not at CSM but that's a bad reason to treat firms as better

I do it because I want DPW and S&C to match. It's also why I put Milbank super high on the dumb surveys.

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:39 am

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:19 am

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:20 am

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Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:58 pm

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Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:50 pm

I don't care about the outcome here at all but . . . of course the smaller schools send less people than larger schools? If you're trying to figure out how ~~prestigious~~ these places are, wouldn't it be a question of what % of those schools are going to these firms

Well then for SLS it's ~5% (granted, Cravath/S&C NYC aren't really seen as particularly more desirable outcomes than the other V10s in NYC to us--the only major NY firm that's stand-out is WLRK, and DPW/K&E/Sidley/etc all nab a few people).

yeah, just based on friends it seems like a lot of people from my class were choosing between CSM, S&C and DPW, which were all viewed pretty interchangeably, and people went to any of the 3 based on individual factors.

Disagree abt the K&E thing, seemed like if anything people actively avoided KE NYC

There are people who got into CSM and chose SullCrom and DPW?? Wild

1) yes duh.
2) every thread on TLS does not have to turn into a CSM is better than everyone thread. if you're at CSM and using this as an opportunity to feel better, it has the opposte effect. However, in the spirit of getting more money, if DPW and S&C do not match Cravath's new clerkship bonus numbers I will absolutely start treating Cravath as the better.

Not at CSM but that's a bad reason to treat firms as better

I do it because I want DPW and S&C to match. It's also why I put Milbank super high on the dumb surveys.

You should treat firms better because they are higher quality, not because you are trying to manipulate them. Doing otherwise confuses impressionable 1Ls

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:08 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:27 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:08 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

YLS grad here, median at YLS won't cut it either.

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:38 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:27 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

YLS grad here, median at YLS won't cut it either.

What does median at YLS mean? Not a dig at all, I was HLS and there's a pretty clear consensus around where median is, despite the schools attempt to make the curve opaque

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:49 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:38 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:27 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

YLS grad here, median at YLS won't cut it either.

What does median at YLS mean? Not a dig at all, I was HLS and there's a pretty clear consensus around where median is, despite the schools attempt to make the curve opaque

Same as anywhere, breakdown of Hs v. Ps. Can't remember what the breakdown is after second semester tho

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:07 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:49 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:38 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:27 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:08 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

YLS grad here, median at YLS won't cut it either.

What does median at YLS mean? Not a dig at all, I was HLS and there's a pretty clear consensus around where median is, despite the schools attempt to make the curve opaque

Same as anywhere, breakdown of Hs v. Ps. Can't remember what the breakdown is after second semester tho

Is that complicated by lack of a required curve though? Like, I'd assume that without a standardized curve its impossible to compare across classes

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:22 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:07 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:49 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:38 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:27 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:08 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

YLS grad here, median at YLS won't cut it either.

What does median at YLS mean? Not a dig at all, I was HLS and there's a pretty clear consensus around where median is, despite the schools attempt to make the curve opaque

Same as anywhere, breakdown of Hs v. Ps. Can't remember what the breakdown is after second semester tho

Is that complicated by lack of a required curve though? Like, I'd assume that without a standardized curve its impossible to compare across classes

My understanding is that it's fairly consistent from year to year

Sorry I am the SSC/semi-feeder COA guy way back and forgot to ask one last question. For the boutiques that do this by class year, should I expect a class year cut from the SSC. The SSC is probably going to be out of state.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:38 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:27 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:08 pm

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Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:37 pm

If you’re actually a decent HYS candidate, doesn’t your summer firm matter approximately zero? You’ll be able to recruit after clerking, when you’re an even more compelling candidate—especially if you’re coming off a COA clerkship.

In that context picking between CSM/DPW/S&C (or any other respectable firm) on vibes is probably the move tbh

Depending on the market if a median HYS candidate clerks at a COA and wants to go to one of CSM/DPW/S&C it may not happen. Sometimes these firms have years where they don't hire many non-returning clerks. Now this is less of an issue if you're more open away from those three and/or also a very good candidate. In most scenarioes though yeah if you're the standard elite HYS of COA then back to firm I don't think your summer associateship will matter that much.

I think you're pretty on the nose here, a lot of it depends on the clerk hiring market when someone happens to be re-recruiting.

Also, there aren't really a ton of situations where someone who is median at HLS/SLS (ignoring YLS since they don't have a curve) gets a COA clerkship. If you had the credentials for COA, you probably have the credentials to get through the door at most traditional big law firms

YLS grad here, median at YLS won't cut it either.

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Now, SLS median will also get callbacks at DPW and S&C (I know, because I did--I also got a COA, but my grades improved pretty drastically after 1L so it's a bit of a different story). CSM seems a little bit more selective, but not massively so.

Just a reminder that, assuming the same LSAT score, a Communications major with 4.0 GPA from Arizona State has a better chance of going to a T6 than an Applied Physics major with 3.6 GPA from MIT.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

They're ones (along with 8/11, actually), that our clerkships office specifically say are less competitive for SLS grads, because so many of us are locked to the coasts. It's certainly not a "this person clerked on the sixth so they must be median" because Thapar and Sutton exist, but it's a good way for an otherwise-meh SLS candidate to get a COA clerkship.

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:39 pm

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

They're ones (along with 8/11, actually), that our clerkships office specifically say are less competitive for SLS grads, because so many of us are locked to the coasts. It's certainly not a "this person clerked on the sixth so they must be median" because Thapar and Sutton exist, but it's a good way for an otherwise-meh SLS candidate to get a COA clerkship.

To be fair, Sutton/Thapar are obviously highlights, but I think CA6 is fairly deep for a so called non-coastal circuit outside of them - Kethledge, Larsen, Gibbons and Clay all have pretty good reputations from what I have heard.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:56 am

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:39 pm

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

They're ones (along with 8/11, actually), that our clerkships office specifically say are less competitive for SLS grads, because so many of us are locked to the coasts. It's certainly not a "this person clerked on the sixth so they must be median" because Thapar and Sutton exist, but it's a good way for an otherwise-meh SLS candidate to get a COA clerkship.

To be fair, Sutton/Thapar are obviously highlights, but I think CA6 is fairly deep for a so called non-coastal circuit outside of them - Kethledge, Larsen, Gibbons and Clay all have pretty good reputations from what I have heard.

That's true. I don't think there's an obvious lightweight/political creature on the sixth, in the way the ninth has VanDyke or the fifth has Ho (not that they don't hire good candidates, but they are more concerned with other things than grades/school).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:56 am

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:39 pm

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

They're ones (along with 8/11, actually), that our clerkships office specifically say are less competitive for SLS grads, because so many of us are locked to the coasts. It's certainly not a "this person clerked on the sixth so they must be median" because Thapar and Sutton exist, but it's a good way for an otherwise-meh SLS candidate to get a COA clerkship.

To be fair, Sutton/Thapar are obviously highlights, but I think CA6 is fairly deep for a so called non-coastal circuit outside of them - Kethledge, Larsen, Gibbons and Clay all have pretty good reputations from what I have heard.

FWIW I worked for one of these judges and median at SLS would probably have been a non-starter for them.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:57 am

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Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:56 am

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:39 pm

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

They're ones (along with 8/11, actually), that our clerkships office specifically say are less competitive for SLS grads, because so many of us are locked to the coasts. It's certainly not a "this person clerked on the sixth so they must be median" because Thapar and Sutton exist, but it's a good way for an otherwise-meh SLS candidate to get a COA clerkship.

To be fair, Sutton/Thapar are obviously highlights, but I think CA6 is fairly deep for a so called non-coastal circuit outside of them - Kethledge, Larsen, Gibbons and Clay all have pretty good reputations from what I have heard.

FWIW I worked for one of these judges and median at SLS would probably have been a non-starter for them.

Can someone on here who was actually median from HYS and clerked on the COA actually come forward and say so? No? Right, that's what I thought.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:25 am

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Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:57 am

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Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:56 am

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

They're ones (along with 8/11, actually), that our clerkships office specifically say are less competitive for SLS grads, because so many of us are locked to the coasts. It's certainly not a "this person clerked on the sixth so they must be median" because Thapar and Sutton exist, but it's a good way for an otherwise-meh SLS candidate to get a COA clerkship.

To be fair, Sutton/Thapar are obviously highlights, but I think CA6 is fairly deep for a so called non-coastal circuit outside of them - Kethledge, Larsen, Gibbons and Clay all have pretty good reputations from what I have heard.

FWIW I worked for one of these judges and median at SLS would probably have been a non-starter for them.

Can someone on here who was actually median from HYS and clerked on the COA actually come forward and say so? No? Right, that's what I thought.

Median at Yale is a different beast. For H/S it shouldn't be that shocking that someone who is median would have a hard time getting a COA clerkship.

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Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:35 am

Those have to be skewed by having two massive T6s, CLS and NYU, on the doorstep as the local schools. DC firms are not 70% T6, and on the whole they’re more selective than NYC firms.

Yeah I wonder how much of these numbers are just HLS/CLS/NYU. Yale/Stanford/Chicago are 600ish students total, while HLS/CLS/NYU approachs 1500 combined.

Anecdotally, SLS only sends maybe 10 total to Cravath/S&C NYC/WLRK per year.

I don't care about the outcome here at all but . . . of course the smaller schools send less people than larger schools? If you're trying to figure out how ~~prestigious~~ these places are, wouldn't it be a question of what % of those schools are going to these firms

Well then for SLS it's ~5% (granted, Cravath/S&C NYC aren't really seen as particularly more desirable outcomes than the other V10s in NYC to us--the only major NY firm that's stand-out is WLRK, and DPW/K&E/Sidley/etc all nab a few people).

yeah, just based on friends it seems like a lot of people from my class were choosing between CSM, S&C and DPW, which were all viewed pretty interchangeably, and people went to any of the 3 based on individual factors.

Disagree abt the K&E thing, seemed like if anything people actively avoided KE NYC

There are people who got into CSM and chose SullCrom and DPW?? Wild

1) yes duh.
2) every thread on TLS does not have to turn into a CSM is better than everyone thread. if you're at CSM and using this as an opportunity to feel better, it has the opposte effect. However, in the spirit of getting more money, if DPW and S&C do not match Cravath's new clerkship bonus numbers I will absolutely start treating Cravath as the better.

Attaboy!

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Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

Fed Soc candidates desire the 6th far more than the 2nd, and it's not even close. Thapar is arguably the most sought-after judge for top fed-soc candidates right now. And Sutton and Kethledge are some of the most selective conservative jurists in the country. Murphy and Readler are also going to be ranked highly on every fed-soc list. COA prestige rankings are always dumb, but if we must engage in this nonsense, I am putting the 2nd Circuit at median at best right now, especially for top conservative candidates.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

Fed Soc candidates desire the 6th far more than the 2nd, and it's not even close. Thapar is arguably the most sought-after judge for top fed-soc candidates right now. And Sutton and Kethledge are some of the most selective conservative jurists in the country. Murphy and Readler are also going to be ranked highly on every fed-soc list. COA prestige rankings are always dumb, but if we must engage in this nonsense, I am putting the 2nd Circuit at median at best right now, especially for top conservative candidates.

Recently Gruender on the 8th got a top fed soc student at my law school, whicj just speaks to circuit rankings in this realm are silly

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:44 am

I'm not sure how true this is. SLS median (i.e. ~30% Hs) doesn't get COA clerkships a lot, but it can and does happen--even without FedSoc. Now they won't get 2/9/DC, but with local ties or an interesting background, 5/6/10 happens fairly regularly.

Is 5/6/10 supposed to mean something or is it just a non-exhaustive list of "other" circuits? Sometimes I can't keep up with the perceived prestige tiers around this industry. I would have guessed "where FedSoccers want to go" but it didn't include the 11th so it can't be that.

Fed Soc candidates desire the 6th far more than the 2nd, and it's not even close. Thapar is arguably the most sought-after judge for top fed-soc candidates right now. And Sutton and Kethledge are some of the most selective conservative jurists in the country. Murphy and Readler are also going to be ranked highly on every fed-soc list. COA prestige rankings are always dumb, but if we must engage in this nonsense, I am putting the 2nd Circuit at median at best right now, especially for top conservative candidates.

Recently Gruender on the 8th got a top fed soc student at my law school, whicj just speaks to circuit rankings in this realm are silly

I disagree that circuit rankings are silly, and if I was looking at two resumes, the first with a 2/9/DC clerk and the second with an appellate clerkship elsewhere, both with judges I have never heard of, I would assume the first was better credentialed because I would assume they landed a more competitive clerkship.

This goes out the window once you recognize the judge and are familiar with their own competitiveness, and it ceases to matter entirely in certain (highly politicized) contexts when, e.g., some future Ted Cruz wannabe would go clerk for Ho before any other judge in the country.

But in a vacuum, in standard-firm-hiring, without judge context, circuits matter.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:58 pm

I disagree that circuit rankings are silly, and if I was looking at two resumes, the first with a 2/9/DC clerk and the second with an appellate clerkship elsewhere, both with judges I have never heard of, I would assume the first was better credentialed because I would assume they landed a more competitive clerkship.

This goes out the window once you recognize the judge and are familiar with their own competitiveness, and it ceases to matter entirely in certain (highly politicized) contexts when, e.g., some future Ted Cruz wannabe would go clerk for Ho before any other judge in the country.

But in a vacuum, in standard-firm-hiring, without judge context, circuits matter.

Eh, the thing is, you don't need to assume the 2/9/DC clerk is better credentialed because you will also be looking at these candidates' resumes, which, you guessed it, list their credentials. So you don't need to make assumptions about what the circuit "means" b/c you can see what you need to know in the rest of their application. You can see their school, their transcripts, their writing samples, and their LORs/references.

(I guess maybe the whole top school --> no rankings/weird grades thing may complicate this a little (giving away that I didn't go to one of these). But there may also be Latin honors or Coif to consider, their grades are on their transcripts, and if you get to that point, their references can probably speak to their grades.)

Now, a given employer may have reasons to value one of the 2/9/DC triumvirate (like the firm is in one of those circuits), and I get that it can become a short hand/heuristic (the way that the LSAT is for grades), but if it's really a judge you've never heard of, I don't think you can presume competitiveness based on the circuit. The 9th Cir includes Pocatello, Idaho (no disrespect meant to Judge Smith). The 2d Circuit includes Albany. Etc.