Top Law Schools

rockstarlawyer wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:19 am

but learned a decent amount about writing code that is efficient and readable vs just focusing on writing something that will run.
...
deeper concepts of CS.

Care to explain? Didn't law school already give you a good foundation for readable and efficient writing?

laanngo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:24 pm

rockstarlawyer wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:19 am

but learned a decent amount about writing code that is efficient and readable vs just focusing on writing something that will run.
...
deeper concepts of CS.

Care to explain? Didn't law school already give you a good foundation for readable and efficient writing?

You realize this is just a superficial similarity, right? Writing an understandable brief that convinces a judge is an entirely different skill set from determining whether you can write code that solves a problem in polynomial time. Sure, both are focusing on avoiding extraneous crap, but they require entirely different thinking.

laanngo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:24 pm

rockstarlawyer wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:19 am

but learned a decent amount about writing code that is efficient and readable vs just focusing on writing something that will run.
...
deeper concepts of CS.

Care to explain? Didn't law school already give you a good foundation for readable and efficient writing?

Writing efficient readable code has nothing to do with what you learn in law school. You're writing code, not English prose.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:33 pm

You realize this is just a superficial similarity, right? Writing an understandable brief that convinces a judge is an entirely different skill set from determining whether you can write code that solves a problem in polynomial time. Sure, both are focusing on avoiding extraneous crap, but they require entirely different thinking.

They're both just issuing commands clearly to a robot

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:34 pm

Writing efficient readable code has nothing to do with what you learn in law school. You're writing code, not English prose.

Have you worked in IT?

laanngo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:33 pm

You realize this is just a superficial similarity, right? Writing an understandable brief that convinces a judge is an entirely different skill set from determining whether you can write code that solves a problem in polynomial time. Sure, both are focusing on avoiding extraneous crap, but they require entirely different thinking.

They're both just issuing commands clearly to a robot

lol no

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:34 pm

Writing efficient readable code has nothing to do with what you learn in law school. You're writing code, not English prose.

Have you worked in IT?

No, but if you think my legal writing skills mean I could write code, feel free to get me a job at Google.

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:55 pm

laanngo wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:37 pm

They're both just issuing commands clearly to a robot

lol no

Other than SCOTUS, which judge doesn't decide cases by stare decisis? And how often do appeals go to the top?

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:55 pm

No, but if you think my legal writing skills mean I could write code, feel free to get me a job at Google.

As project manager, probably.

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

If anyone is serious in this line of questioning, there are plenty of YouTube videos out there that discuss fundamental CS topics (like algorithmic efficiency, etc.). Take a gander and gauge whether or not you’re motivated enough to be successful in this kind of career move.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:08 pm

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

I'm not trolling. I am seriously interested in how much IT skills overlap with lawyering and vice-versa.

laanngo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:08 pm

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

I'm not trolling. I am seriously interested in how much IT skills overlap with lawyering and vice-versa.

Go touch grass

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:18 pm

Go touch grass

Are you telling me to go take a hike?

See current "I Allegedly" vid on YT, Jan 22, 2023. Massive layoffs at Google and entire tech sector.

laanngo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:08 pm

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

I'm not trolling. I am seriously interested in how much IT skills overlap with lawyering and vice-versa.

I did lots of coding before I went to law school, and now work in litigation. Trust me when I say none.

Unless someone else has that same experience and disagrees, I think we can /thread

IT or coding? Two different things. But I'll assume you mean coding.

Going against the grain, I do see some similarities between legal writing and code. Legal briefs essentially require distilling complex statutes and caselaw into simple conditional coding (if/else, while, switches, etc.) applied to facts. But that's as far as it really goes. Code that relies entirely on conditional statements will almost necessarily be inefficient, except in really simple cases.

What's harder? In the most basic cases, both are probably similar and the same type of brain could figure it out and put out a product that's acceptable. In the most difficult cases, both are actually harder but for completely different reasons. Legal writing is harder because it takes a ton of skill to distill something complex that's also engaging and convincing to the reader (if you disagree, go read some really great appellate briefs. if you can think you can do that off the gate, you probably just don't know). Coding is harder because the layers of logic are hard enough to disentangle, let alone create/invent (which is required at the highest levels).

With that said, I don't know what I would have picked if I could go back. Probably coding because I like making stuff. But writing is fun too, just really hard to do at a high level.

glitched wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:58 pm

IT or coding? Two different things. But I'll assume you mean coding.

Going against the grain, I do see some similarities between legal writing and code. Legal briefs essentially require distilling complex statutes and caselaw into simple conditional coding (if/else, while, switches, etc.) applied to facts. But that's as far as it really goes. Code that relies entirely on conditional statements will almost necessarily be inefficient, except in really simple cases.

What's harder? In the most basic cases, both are probably similar and the same type of brain could figure it out and put out a product that's acceptable. In the most difficult cases, both are actually harder but for completely different reasons. Legal writing is harder because it takes a ton of skill to distill something complex that's also engaging and convincing to the reader (if you disagree, go read some really great appellate briefs. if you can think you can do that off the gate, you probably just don't know). Coding is harder because the layers of logic are hard enough to disentangle, let alone create/invent (which is required at the highest levels).

With that said, I don't know what I would have picked if I could go back. Probably coding because I like making stuff. But writing is fun too, just really hard to do at a high level.

Right, you can describe both tasks at a high level using similar words, but the actual practice of each (coding, legal writing) is incredibly different. Software developers rely on languages (e.g., C++) just as much as brief writers do (English). And we could get into the existential debate about what a "skill" is. But I'll stand by what I've observed and said numerous times in this thread - coders in general don't do well with things that lawyers do, and lawyers have trouble with what coders do.

Anecdotally, I had to take a writing for [science major] course in college and all of my [science major] colleagues' writing was dreadful, including the top of our class. If I asked them why they were poor writers they would say it's a skill or ability that they hadn't practiced or don't have. I read a lot of documentation written by software developers for my job, and the same holds true for them.

I now work in IP, and as I've said before, many of my YHS English/PoliSci colleagues struggle with basic coding concepts that most computer science majors taught themselves in high school. They may understand formal logic (basic if/then statements), but when it comes to understanding while/for loops, variable types and pointers, arguments in a function, header files, etc. (and god forbid if we have to go down to HDL or digital logic), they are at a complete loss (for months on end even, after numerous meetings with experts, technology tutorials, etc.). These are the types of things my colleagues and I taught ourselves quickly in our non-CompSci undergrad studies (if they hadn't already in high school), but that my VERY intelligent and accomplished colleagues at the firm just can't seem to grasp.

Whether these jobs require different skills probably more of a matter of semantics, and there are certainly people who can do both, but from what I've seen they take very different types of mind with very different strengths/weaknesses.

Looks like the reverse question has also been asked
https://www.reddit.com/r/biglaw/comment ... ransition/

laanngo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:08 pm

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

I'm not trolling. I am seriously interested in how much IT skills overlap with lawyering and vice-versa.

Very little. How many CS classes have you taken?

As someone who is very analytical, both engineering and law fit my way of thinking. But that is because I love both language and math and I love to see how structures fit together. There are plenty of people who do not.

Speculating, but I would imagine that interest/proficiency in logic games, 1L Civ Pro, and (later on) Fed Courts would correlate with coding interest/proficiency.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:15 pm

laanngo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:08 pm

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

I'm not trolling. I am seriously interested in how much IT skills overlap with lawyering and vice-versa.

Very little. How many CS classes have you taken?

As someone who is very analytical, both engineering and law fit my way of thinking. But that is because I love both language and math and I love to see how structures fit together. There are plenty of people who do not.

Speculating, but I would imagine that interest/proficiency in logic games, 1L Civ Pro, and (later on) Fed Courts would correlate with coding interest/proficiency.

Why do we keep reviving this thread?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:15 pm

laanngo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:08 pm

There can’t possibly be more to discuss on this topic and it’s likely this guy’s just trolling for responses at this point.

I'm not trolling. I am seriously interested in how much IT skills overlap with lawyering and vice-versa.

Very little. How many CS classes have you taken?

As someone who is very analytical, both engineering and law fit my way of thinking. But that is because I love both language and math and I love to see how structures fit together. There are plenty of people who do not.

Speculating, but I would imagine that interest/proficiency in logic games, 1L Civ Pro, and (later on) Fed Courts would correlate with coding interest/proficiency.

I took a few in undergrad, but I'm a SysAdmin. DSA is what broke me.

I do not believe software engineers at even Amazon are working more than 40-45 hours a week. Us lawyers? Pfft. No comparison.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 29, 2023 9:32 am

I do not believe software engineers at even Amazon are working more than 40-45 hours a week. Us lawyers? Pfft. No comparison.

This thread does not need to be bumped any more. Putting the lock on.