Spleen's Guide to Success at a Strong Regional T1/2/3 Forum

[spleenworship]

Also, in all fairness, now that I'm not champagned up this morning, I will say the work I did for them at the PDs office almost certainly helped. I was told I write good motions and I work hard.

Because of that, let me add an ADDENDUM:

When you are taking a clinic, externship, internship, law clerking, or doing a summer associate gig - WORK HARD and turn in only you best product. Leave last minute papers for you classes and don't do any work or show up to law school classes. That's fine ( unless you care about grades ). But don't pull this crap when you are doing things in the real world. First off, it does a huge disservice to the clients - people who either really need your help or are at least paying tons of money to get a lawyer to do something. Secondly, and more importantly for this guide's purpose, you can network your ass off and be remembered as an awesome dude... But if they also remember they had to edit your suppression motion/summary judgment brief/memo 5 times and effectively write it themselves, they're going to be like "that guy/gal is so nice and I'd love to go to a BBQ with them, but they are going to be a crappy lawyer." So... Do your best work when you are doing anything practical. Because that's where it pays off.

[The Dark Shepard]

randomly discovered this, but thanks for this Spleen!

[spleenworship]

Bumping for next year's poor bastards.

[spleenworship]

Last bump until February when people get grades back and realize they are goin to need something else to get a jerb.

[Scotusnerd]

Also, in all fairness, now that I'm not champagned up this morning, I will say the work I did for them at the PDs office almost certainly helped. I was told I write good motions and I work hard.

Because of that, let me add an ADDENDUM:

When you are taking a clinic, externship, internship, law clerking, or doing a summer associate gig - WORK HARD and turn in only you best product. Leave last minute papers for you classes and don't do any work or show up to law school classes. That's fine ( unless you care about grades ). But don't pull this crap when you are doing things in the real world. First off, it does a huge disservice to the clients - people who either really need your help or are at least paying tons of money to get a lawyer to do something. Secondly, and more importantly for this guide's purpose, you can network your ass off and be remembered as an awesome dude... But if they also remember they had to edit your suppression motion/summary judgment brief/memo 5 times and effectively write it themselves, they're going to be like "that guy/gal is so nice and I'd love to go to a BBQ with them, but they are going to be a crappy lawyer." So... Do your best work when you are doing anything practical. Because that's where it pays off.

Wanted to emphasize this to people. I made the mistake of being overconfident in my abilities and turned in something that was crap. I got an ass-reaming for it, and I deserved it. People remember stuff like that.

Also, have a thick skin, and don't expect the lawyers to hold your hand. You may luck out and find a super nice boss who's very supportive of law clerks and has systems in place to help you grow, or you may work for an overstressed jerk who wants you to do monkey work and tells you to go talk to HR for your westlaw password and then gets mad at you when you spend the first day tracking down the stuff you need to access the internal filing system.

Either way, turn in the best work you can. Period, end stop.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[spleenworship]

Amazing thread Spleen. I know this is for regionals, where networks generally stick in one place and connections are so important, but I might like to do this stuff even in New Haven. Do you think it could hurt in any way?

I can't imagine it would hurt, but that said... You're in a whole other world there from me, so you'll probably need to modify on the fly as necessary. Also, you are prolly in a great position for OCI, BigFed, clerkships, and even nationally ranked PI shit. None of which I was ever in a position for. So just keep that in mind, along with the fact that national circles may have different unwritten rules about networking I'm likely unaware of.

Good luck to you, and I hope this helped in any way.

[BlueLotus]

This is a gem of a thread, spleen. I've used the advice therein to get valuable internships and hopefully it will work for me postgrad as well (fingers crossed!)

[Manteca]

Glad to have read this, Spleen. Great advice

[BlueLotus]

Spleen, what was your experience applying to clerkships?

[spleenworship]

Spleen, what was your experience applying to clerkships?

I got two interviews - a District Court in BFE and a state SC. The District Court Judge interviewed me almost entirely because I had interviewed him for a newsletter, and because I had hung out with him a few times when I interned for him when he was a USA.

That said, obviously neither interview worked out. When you are at that level, it's all about fit with the judge, and I wasn't a fit for either. The Judge preferred (as far as I could tell) a better writer. The Justice wanted someone who had more research experience in her areas of interest.

[BlueLotus]

Spleen, what was your experience applying to clerkships?

I got two interviews - a District Court in BFE and a state SC. The District Court Judge interviewed me almost entirely because I had interviewed him for a newsletter, and because I had hung out with him a few times when I interned for him when he was a USA.

That said, obviously neither interview worked out. When you are at that level, it's all about fit with the judge, and I wasn't a fit for either. The Judge preferred (as far as I could tell) a better writer. The Justice wanted someone who had more research experience in her areas of interest.

is journal a must? i want to apply for family court clerkships and have a ton of family law experience but no journal. i got an A in family law and have good rapport with the prof.

[spleenworship]

Spleen, what was your experience applying to clerkships?

I got two interviews - a District Court in BFE and a state SC. The District Court Judge interviewed me almost entirely because I had interviewed him for a newsletter, and because I had hung out with him a few times when I interned for him when he was a USA.

That said, obviously neither interview worked out. When you are at that level, it's all about fit with the judge, and I wasn't a fit for either. The Judge preferred (as far as I could tell) a better writer. The Justice wanted someone who had more research experience in her areas of interest.

is journal a must? i want to apply for family court clerkships and have a ton of family law experience but no journal. i got an A in family law and have good rapport with the prof.

It's my understanding that a journal is absolutely required

[A. Nony Mouse]

My understanding is that whether journal is a must totally depends on the judge. Some judges won't care at all, some judges won't look at candidates without. (Some will only choose law review people. It varies.) Probably more judges want to see it than don't, but it's not universally required.

However, you do usually have to be able to demonstrate that you're a good writer, so writing stuff on your resume is usually important (if not journal specifically).

[BlueLotus]

My understanding is that whether journal is a must totally depends on the judge. Some judges won't care at all, some judges won't look at candidates without. (Some will only choose law review people. It varies.) Probably more judges want to see it than don't, but it's not universally required.

However, you do usually have to be able to demonstrate that you're a good writer, so writing stuff on your resume is usually important (if not journal specifically).

Thanks for the perspective. Will my lack of moot court hurt too?

[A. Nony Mouse]

My understanding is that whether journal is a must totally depends on the judge. Some judges won't care at all, some judges won't look at candidates without. (Some will only choose law review people. It varies.) Probably more judges want to see it than don't, but it's not universally required.

However, you do usually have to be able to demonstrate that you're a good writer, so writing stuff on your resume is usually important (if not journal specifically).

Thanks for the perspective. Will my lack of moot court hurt too?

I've honestly never seen anyone care about moot court at all. It's never come up in any interview I've had or interviews that I know of people having.

[spleenworship]

My understanding is that whether journal is a must totally depends on the judge. Some judges won't care at all, some judges won't look at candidates without. (Some will only choose law review people. It varies.) Probably more judges want to see it than don't, but it's not universally required.

However, you do usually have to be able to demonstrate that you're a good writer, so writing stuff on your resume is usually important (if not journal specifically).

Hmm. May also be a specific thing in my state.

Everyone not living in my state should definitely take nony's advice as TCR.

[Scotusnerd]

Spleen's journal requirement applies to my state as well, and my guess is we have similar states. For any sort of appellate clerkships, journal is basically a prerequisite.

No one cares about moot court. Depressing but true.

[spleenworship]

Bumping for next year's poor bastards.

[Manali]

This thread is gold. Thanks, spleen!

[spleenworship]

This thread is gold. Thanks, spleen!

Thanks. I like to come back a couple times a year and bump this and see who is still on here arguing.

Stupid life keeps me from being a big contributor to TLS anymore.



Oh, I guess as an update to the thread I can say that I love my job as a Public Defender - where networking is still important for promotions and good courtroom assignments. So, everything I said at the beginning is still valuable to me.

[Manali]

This thread is gold. Thanks, spleen!

Thanks. I like to come back a couple times a year and bump this and see who is still on here arguing.

Stupid life keeps me from being a big contributor to TLS anymore.



Oh, I guess as an update to the thread I can say that I love my job as a Public Defender - where networking is still important for promotions and good courtroom assignments. So, everything I said at the beginning is still valuable to me.

Spleen, are "ties" important to PDs offices in the Southwest? (i.e. NM, AZ)

[spleenworship]

This thread is gold. Thanks, spleen!

Thanks. I like to come back a couple times a year and bump this and see who is still on here arguing.

Stupid life keeps me from being a big contributor to TLS anymore.



Oh, I guess as an update to the thread I can say that I love my job as a Public Defender - where networking is still important for promotions and good courtroom assignments. So, everything I said at the beginning is still valuable to me.

Spleen, are "ties" important to PDs offices in the Southwest? (i.e. NM, AZ)

Yes. 75% of our attorneys come from in state. Another 15% from neighboring states, but most of those in rural areas where it's hard to get anyone to work. Only 1 in 10 come from farther away: Boston, California, Washington (DC and state), Florida, NY, Hawaii, Oregon, are the onlu ones I know of, and again, half of those are in rural offices. And most have ties to the state in one way or another: spouse, parent, undergrad, high school, etc.

[spleenworship]

Bumping for next year's poor bastards.

[ashrice13]

Tag. Thanks for this!