Page 1 of 3
From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:11 am
by Z'Barron
If an applicant got waitlisted (until the first day of classes) by a top-10 school last year, applied to the same school this year and got rejected outright, then raised his/her LSAT score by 10 points (from 159 to 169) in June-2009, what do you think would be his/her chances of successfully appealing the decision in the summer (no other changes)?
Does the applicant have a shot at a reversal?
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:55 am
by vamedic03
...
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:56 am
by h2ho
I would doubt it. Get a 179, and maybe.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:10 am
by airlineraddict
Z'Barron wrote:If an applicant got waitlisted (until the first day of classes) by a top-10 school last year, applied to the same school this year and got rejected outright, then raised his/her LSAT score by 10 points (from 159 to 169) in June-2009, what do you think would be his/her chances of successfully appealing the decision in the summer (no other changes)?
Does the applicant have a shot at a reversal?
LOL I don't understand how you thought you'd get a decision that was any different by applying again.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:12 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:Z'Barron wrote:If an applicant got waitlisted (until the first day of classes) by a top-10 school last year, applied to the same school this year and got rejected outright, then raised his/her LSAT score by 10 points (from 159 to 169) in June-2009, what do you think would be his/her chances of successfully appealing the decision in the summer (no other changes)?
Does the applicant have a shot at a reversal?
LOL I don't understand how you thought you'd get a decision that was any different by applying again.
Um...actually..if he was waitlisted the first time, it makes perfect sense to apply again. The applicant pool is different, he might have re-written his PS/added a DS/added an addendum. He might have applied earlier, upping his chances. I think it is perfectly reasonable to re-appy to a school, particularly one that waitlisted you (after all, they must have liked him).
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:40 am
by airlineraddict
Um...actually..if he was waitlisted the first time, it makes perfect sense to apply again.
Not really. If he was waitlisted the first time around, there's no reason to believe his decision would change the second time around, assuming no substantive change in the application.
You seem to be of the view that waitlists are acceptances that law schools could've given if they had space. That's true... to an extent. But the problem is that waitlists still aren't acceptances. Waitlists are often not even based on space issues. I was waitlisted at one school last year, a school at which I had absolutely no chance. They kept a lot of people with my numbers on the waitlist, but everyone know (and LSN showed) that they wouldn't dig nearly enough down the waitlist to get to us. The fact is, if the admissions committee found his application strong enough for an acceptance the second time around, odds are they would have found his application strong enough for an acceptance the first time around.
Change in timing, essays, or recommendations won't do much. Substantive changes: Significant addition of soft factor, GPA change, or new LSAT score.
Source: Anna Ivey's book.
Edit: Allow me to preface my post with "um..." so I hope to sound like a massive bitch, but really come off as an arrogant tool.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:44 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:Um...actually..if he was waitlisted the first time, it makes perfect sense to apply again.
Not really. If he was waitlisted the first time around, there's no reason to believe his decision would change the second time around, assuming no substantive change in the application.
You seem to be of the view that waitlists are acceptances that law schools could've given if they had space. That's true... to an extent. But the problem is that waitlists still aren't acceptances. Waitlists are often not even based on space issues. I was waitlisted at one school last year, a school at which I had absolutely no chance. They kept a lot of people with my numbers on the waitlist, but everyone know (and LSN showed) that they wouldn't dig nearly enough down the waitlist to get to us. The fact is, if the admissions committee found his application strong enough for an acceptance the second time around, odds are they would have found his application strong enough for an acceptance the first time around.
Change in timing, essays, or recommendations won't do much.
Substantive changes: Significant addition of soft factor, GPA change, or new LSAT score.Source: Anna Ivey's book.
Edit: Allow me to preface my post with "um..." so I hope to sound like a massive bitch, but really come off as an arrogant tool.
And apparently you know OP well enough to know that he didn't have any of the aforementioned "substantive changes."
I guess it's less bitchy to start a post with "LOL".
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:44 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:Z'Barron wrote:If an applicant got waitlisted (until the first day of classes) by a top-10 school last year, applied to the same school this year and got rejected outright, then raised his/her LSAT score by 10 points (from 159 to 169) in June-2009, what do you think would be his/her chances of successfully appealing the decision in the summer (no other changes)?
Does the applicant have a shot at a reversal?
LOL I don't understand how you thought you'd get a decision that was any different by applying again.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:46 am
by airlineraddict
And apparently you know OP well enough to know that he didn't have any of the aforementioned "substantive changes."
Considering the LSAT score probably didn't change, odds are nothing else substantive did. Sorry for basing my post on probabilities.
I guess it's less bitchy to start a post with "LOL".
It is probably just as bitchy, but not nearly as arrogantly toolish.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:47 am
by h2ho
So Anna Ivey Jr., what are your recommendations for people who choose to scrap their cycle and re-apply next year? They should apply to all different schools?
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:48 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:And apparently you know OP well enough to know that he didn't have any of the aforementioned "substantive changes."
Considering the LSAT score probably didn't change, odds are nothing else substantive did. Sorry for basing my post on probabilities.
I guess it's less bitchy to start a post with "LOL".
It is probably just as bitchy, but not nearly as arrogantly toolish.
Actually, I wasn't trying to be bitchy, I just say "umm" when I'm thinking quite a bit. Expect the rest of my posts to you to be bitchy and/or toolish though. It will henceforth be intentional.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:50 am
by Cleareyes
h2ho wrote:So Anna Ivey Jr., what are your recommendations for people who choose to scrap their cycle and re-apply next year? They should apply to all different schools?
Clearly the advice would be "significantly improve your application before June."
Come on you guys, there's no need to argue. 10,000 years, peace is now. Apologies, handshakes, friendship, mutual respect?
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:51 am
by airlineraddict
h2ho wrote:So Anna Ivey Jr., what are your recommendations for people who choose to scrap their cycle and re-apply next year? They should apply to all different schools?
Who choose to "scrap their cycle"? What does that even mean? To withdraw one's applications? That one got rejected everywhere?
Yes, if you got rejected everywhere, it probably means you weren't targeting the right schools, given your numbers. Thus, you should apply to different schools.
But, if you, say, raise your GPA significantly or get a higher LSAT score (outside of one standard deviation), you can try applying again. This is assuming that the new numbers would give you a reasonable shot (and to determine this, you use hourmd, LSN, or even just the school's published percentiles).
Actually, I wasn't trying to be bitchy, I just say "umm" when I'm thinking quite a bit. Expect the rest of my posts to you to be bitchy and/or toolish though. It will henceforth be intentional.
You'll have to forgive me if I intended to presume that anyways.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:52 am
by airlineraddict
Clearly the advice would be "significantly improve your application before June."
Yeah, I don't understand how this is so hard for h2ho to understand.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:52 am
by mallard
Your LOCI should read:
Your LOCI wrote:LOL um... admit me this time?
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:52 am
by h2ho
Cleareyes wrote:h2ho wrote:So Anna Ivey Jr., what are your recommendations for people who choose to scrap their cycle and re-apply next year? They should apply to all different schools?
Clearly the advice would be "significantly improve your application before June."
Come on you guys, there's no need to argue. 10,000 years, peace is now. Apologies, handshakes, friendship, mutual respect?
Well all I really meant to say is, I don't think OP re-applying to a school at which he was waitlisted the previous year is "LOL" worthy. It doesn't seem moronic to me in the least, especially since we really don't know whether or not he significantly improved his application from the first time to the second.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:54 am
by airlineraddict
Well all I really meant to say is, I don't think OP re-applying to a school at which he was waitlisted the previous year is "LOL" worthy. It doesn't seem moronic to me in the least, especially since we really don't know whether or not he significantly improved his application from the first time to the second.
I think it's LOL-worthy, since the OP probably didn't substantively improve his application. You'll have to cite the international standards of LOL-worthiness to prove me wrong
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:57 am
by Cleareyes
h2ho wrote:Cleareyes wrote:h2ho wrote:So Anna Ivey Jr., what are your recommendations for people who choose to scrap their cycle and re-apply next year? They should apply to all different schools?
Clearly the advice would be "significantly improve your application before June."
Come on you guys, there's no need to argue. 10,000 years, peace is now. Apologies, handshakes, friendship, mutual respect?
Well all I really meant to say is, I don't think OP re-applying to a school at which he was waitlisted the previous year is "LOL" worthy. It doesn't seem moronic to me in the least, especially since we really don't know whether or not he significantly improved his application from the first time to the second.
Okay. Well I would say given the low initial LSAT score if OP decided to withdraw it seems very odd to retake as late as June instead of trying that in, say, September and December (which presumably did not happen or the June retake would have been impossible.) Perhaps it was a frustrated LOL by someone who wants to help but cannot because it has become too late to save the application for this cycle?
I also think that the idea that retaking the June LSAT would move you from the reject pile to acceptance this year is kind of cynical, if not entirely ridiculous. Perhaps it was a LOL against the perceived unfairness of the world we share. A LOL to keep despair at bay.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:58 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:h2ho wrote:So Anna Ivey Jr., what are your recommendations for people who choose to scrap their cycle and re-apply next year? They should apply to all different schools?
Who choose to "scrap their cycle"? What does that even mean? To withdraw one's applications? That one got rejected everywhere?
Yes, if you got rejected everywhere, it probably means you weren't targeting the right schools, given your numbers. Thus, you should apply to different schools.
who got rejected everywhere? i "scrapped" a cycle once because I had cancer, was that dumb? I think there are often compelling reasons.
I guess I just don't "LOL" at people right off the bat, until I know a little more of the circumstances.
And obviously my first comment agreed with Cleareyes that it would be essentially impossible for the June LSAT to matter for OP's situation.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:59 am
by airlineraddict
Nah, the LOL was purely an indication that the OP and subsequent posts humored me. Assuming I'm right about there being no substantive change, OP probably wasted 100$ and a year of his life in applying again. I don't know about you, but for me that one year is a colossal waste.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:01 am
by airlineraddict
who got rejected everywhere? i "scrapped" a cycle once because I had cancer, was that dumb? I think there are often compelling reasons.
Are you daft or something? I didn't know what you meant by "scrapped a cycle," so I interpreted it as getting rejected everywhere. If you mean "withdrew your applications," then sure go ahead and apply again. I never denied that there could be compelling reasons for "scrapping a cycle" (under your now apparent interpretation of the phrase).
I guess I just don't "LOL" at people right off the bat, until I know a little more of the circumstances.
Yes, but you will "um..." at them. Interesting.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:02 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:who got rejected everywhere? i "scrapped" a cycle once because I had cancer, was that dumb? I think there are often compelling reasons.
Are you daft or something?
I didn't know what you meant by "scrapped a cycle," so I interpreted it as getting rejected everywhere. If you mean "withdrew your applications," then sure go ahead and apply again. I never denied that there could be compelling reasons for "scrapping a cycle" (under your now apparent interpretation of the phrase).
I guess I just don't "LOL" at people right off the bat, until I know a little more of the circumstances.
Yes, but you will "um..." at them. Interesting.
I guess it was too much of a jump for you to think that "scrapped a cycle" meant doing exactly what the OP stated he did and what we'd been talking about in this thread so far-- starting over.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:03 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:who got rejected everywhere? i "scrapped" a cycle once because I had cancer, was that dumb? I think there are often compelling reasons.
Are you daft or something? I didn't know what you meant by "scrapped a cycle," so I interpreted it as getting rejected everywhere. If you mean "withdrew your applications," then sure go ahead and apply again. I never denied that there could be compelling reasons for "scrapping a cycle" (under your now apparent interpretation of the phrase).
I guess I just don't "LOL" at people right off the bat, until I know a little more of the circumstances.
Yes, but
you will "um..." at them. Interesting.
Only at you sexy.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:04 am
by airlineraddict
I guess it was too much of a jump for you to think that "scrapped a cycle" meant doing exactly what the OP stated he did and what we'd been talking about in this thread so far-- starting over.
If that's the case, then your subsequent post is irrelevant. This one:
who got rejected everywhere? i "scrapped" a cycle once because I had cancer, was that dumb? I think there are often compelling reasons.
If the OP was rejected at THAT school (as in, he DIDN'T withdraw because he had cancer), then he shouldn't apply again unless his application substantively changes.
Re: From Rejected to Accepted (same year)
Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:10 am
by h2ho
airlineraddict wrote:I guess it was too much of a jump for you to think that "scrapped a cycle" meant doing exactly what the OP stated he did and what we'd been talking about in this thread so far-- starting over.
If that's the case, then your subsequent post is irrelevant. This one:
who got rejected everywhere? i "scrapped" a cycle once because I had cancer, was that dumb? I think there are often compelling reasons.
If the OP was rejected at THAT school (as in, he DIDN'T withdraw because he had cancer), then he shouldn't apply again unless his application substantively changes.
I started a long explanation, and then I realized I don't care. This is boring. LOL. You're right! OMG. Um.... OK, OP is a moron and should be shot for choosing to use his money in a way that airlineraddict thinks is foolish. Oh well. LOL.
edit: the only reason i thought you were being a douche is because he wasn't asking for your opinion about whether or not he should have re-applied. he had a very specific question about the june lsat and an appeal. you only brought that up to make him feel stupid, which is kind of mean. clearly there's nothing he can do about that at this point.