George Mason Class of 2012 Forum

[sapereaude2012]

I'm in! She called this morning, but I didn't hear my phone and just checked my message.

Congrats!! GMU is my top choice right now, although some $$ would help!

[PubIntLawyer]

Does anyone know if GMU places all the scholarship students together, so that some people are almost guaranteed to lose their $$? I've heard that some schools who have rank requirements for their scholarships do this. Also-for the 1Ls out there, how difficult/common is it to keep the scholarship? Mine requires I stay in the top 25% of my section...that seems mad daunting.

[reidmacharg]

Does anyone know if GMU places all the scholarship students together, so that some people are almost guaranteed to lose their $$? I've heard that some schools who have rank requirements for their scholarships do this. Also-for the 1Ls out there, how difficult/common is it to keep the scholarship? Mine requires I stay in the top 25% of my section...that seems mad daunting.

The rumor circulates among the students too.

I'm in the top half. I'm probably going to lose my scholarship. Top quarter with a bunch of kids who either had a 3.8 or a 164+ LSAT is tougher than you would think it would be. I was a rockstar at UNC. Now I'm slightly above average. It's hard to swallow at first.

The good news re the top quarter is that some of the very top people transfer out, and others in the top quarter lose their steam or get cocky about their abilities. If you lose the scholarship for your second year, you can still get it for your third.

[PubIntLawyer]

Does anyone know if GMU places all the scholarship students together, so that some people are almost guaranteed to lose their $$? I've heard that some schools who have rank requirements for their scholarships do this. Also-for the 1Ls out there, how difficult/common is it to keep the scholarship? Mine requires I stay in the top 25% of my section...that seems mad daunting.

The rumor circulates among the students too.

I'm in the top half. I'm probably going to lose my scholarship. Top quarter with a bunch of kids who either had a 3.8 or a 164+ LSAT is tougher than you would think it would be. I was a rockstar at UNC. Now I'm slightly above average. It's hard to swallow at first.

The good news re the top quarter is that some of the very top people transfer out, and others in the top quarter lose their steam or get cocky about their abilities. If you lose the scholarship for your second year, you can still get it for your third.

Thanks for the info!

So you can lose your scholarship for your second year, but win in back for the third? Do you have to reapply or is it automatic? I was thinking once you lose it you lose it for good...but this is not the case?

I am sorta thinking top 25% sounds impossible (although I sure am hoping it's doable). But I have in-state so I guess if I lose the scholarship, it's still a good deal...esp compared to GWU/American...

[reidmacharg]

I think it just automatically comes back to you.

Yeah, GMU's a steal. American's ridiculously expensive for what you get, and GW's overrated. I don't pretend to not be biased.

[*kiki*]

I am surprised that everyone thinks it is going to be so difficult to stay in the top 25% of the class. For me personally, I will do whatever it takes to stay in the top 25% regardless of whether I had my scholarship riding on it or not. I mean isn't it imperative to stay ranked in this top 1/4th of the class to make law review and/or get 1L summer work?

[AbsolutLax]

I think top 25% is important if you want to make law review. As for summer positions, it would certainly help but I think its all a dice roll at this point. I've heard so many firms are cutting back on summers. Unfortunately, for a lot of 1Ls they have the mindset that they will all be in the top percentage of the class. Its a shame because I think that's what makes it even harder for them when they don't perform like they thought they would. I would caution everyone to be a realist in this situation, and know that there are a limited number of spots.

[pomona]

I am surprised that everyone thinks it is going to be so difficult to stay in the top 25% of the class. For me personally, I will do whatever it takes to stay in the top 25% regardless of whether I had my scholarship riding on it or not. I mean isn't it imperative to stay ranked in this top 1/4th of the class to make law review and/or get 1L summer work?

It's very important, yes, but you shouldn't be surprised that most people think it is going to be difficult to stay in the top 25% of the class. Consider that in law school, you have a class that is primarily made up of people who were in the top 25% of their class in undergrad and are probably also doing what they think is whatever it takes to stay in the top 25% in law school. A lot of people will be in for a shock.

[PubIntLawyer]

I am surprised that everyone thinks it is going to be so difficult to stay in the top 25% of the class. For me personally, I will do whatever it takes to stay in the top 25% regardless of whether I had my scholarship riding on it or not. I mean isn't it imperative to stay ranked in this top 1/4th of the class to make law review and/or get 1L summer work?

Of course I'm going to work as hard as possible to stay in the top quarter. However, as you said, everyone is going to desperately be trying to make top quarter, but 75% of us won't. I'm just trying to be realistic. I also have not idea how I'll stack up to my peers seeing that my lsat is higher than most at GMU, but my gpa is lower. I just don't want to go in being cocky and knowing I'm going to place top 25%....because then, as one poster said, I'll be devastated if I don't

[*kiki*]

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

[pomona]

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

I got a similar vibe as you at ASW. However, I think one other potential explanation is that it might have had something to do with the students participating in that type of event; they're more social and spend more time participating in extracurriculars than studying in the library, being concerned about grades.

Also, although the current students at ASW didn't seem to be focused on grades, they made a point of showing the ranking list and list of class grades on the tour. I was SHOCKED by this, as I hadn't noticed or had this pointed out to me on tours at other law schools. It indicated to me that overall, the culture at GMU is to be concerned about grades.

[Bankhead]

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

I agree that this was the vibe. The attitude surprised me as well. It seems like many students take a fairly passive approach regarding grades. Perhaps many see their first semester grades, and then resign themselves to the fact that they won't be near the top of the class and relax.

[PubIntLawyer]

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

I hope that's the case! I think I'm just trying to convince myself that it's not the end of the world if I lose my scholarship and don't place top 25%... but I sure am going to work hard not to.

[Bankhead]

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

I got a similar vibe as you at ASW. However, I think one other potential explanation is that it might have had something to do with the students participating in that type of event; they're more social and spend more time participating in extracurriculars than studying in the library, being concerned about grades.

Also, although the current students at ASW didn't seem to be focused on grades, they made a point of showing the ranking list and list of class grades on the tour. I was SHOCKED by this, as I hadn't noticed or had this pointed out to me on tours at other law schools. It indicated to me that overall, the culture at GMU is to be concerned about grades.

It just means the administration is concerned with grades. This isn't necessarily indicative of the students being grade-conscious, but more just pointing out an aspect of the school.

[*kiki*]

If this is the case and people relax after the first semester, it seems that this would allow some opportunity for those of us who are committed to making the best grades we possibly can.

Oh and your picture made me smile. My husband loves those noodle shops. We have one at home called Pho Hoa that we go to all the time!

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

I agree that this was the vibe. The attitude surprised me as well. It seems like many students take a fairly passive approach regarding grades. Perhaps many see their first semester grades, and then resign themselves to the fact that they won't be near the top of the class and relax.

[pomona]

I understand that it won't be an easy task by any means to remain in the top 25% of the class. I just have to tell myself that it has to happen, or I won't have the discipline to do whatever it takes. Plus, I got the feeling from the ASW that it might be easier at GMU to stay in the top than I had initially expected. I went into the ASW expecting that everyone at the law school would have grades as their top priority. However, hardly anyone stressed the importance of grades. To me it seemed that students had taken on the attitude that they were going to make some bad grades regardless of what they did, so there was no reason to try and avoid it. Plus people seemed way more concerned with networking with their peers than focusing on grades. This may have been a show to not scare off potential students, but that was just the vibe that I got.

I got a similar vibe as you at ASW. However, I think one other potential explanation is that it might have had something to do with the students participating in that type of event; they're more social and spend more time participating in extracurriculars than studying in the library, being concerned about grades.

Also, although the current students at ASW didn't seem to be focused on grades, they made a point of showing the ranking list and list of class grades on the tour. I was SHOCKED by this, as I hadn't noticed or had this pointed out to me on tours at other law schools. It indicated to me that overall, the culture at GMU is to be concerned about grades.

It just means the administration is concerned with grades. This isn't necessarily indicative of the students being grade-conscious, but more just pointing out an aspect of the school.

It JUST means the admin. is concerned with grades and doesn't necessarily reflect anything on the student body? I find that pretty hard to believe.

[byu85]

I've talked to numerous friends currently in or who have recently graduated from law school and they gave me the impression that if you put in the effort you can easily be in the top half of your law school class. However, they said to be in the top 25% is more a matter of luck than anything else because the grades are all so tight and the difference in the test scores so small. Getting 2 more multiple choice questions right on the final may be the only difference between a student in the top 20% vs a student in the top 30%. The top half of a class may all be arguably just as smart and put in just as much effort as one another.

[*kiki*]

I've talked to numerous friends currently in or who have recently graduated from law school and they gave me the impression that if you put in the effort you can easily be in the top half of your law school class. However, they said to be in the top 25% is more a matter of luck than anything else because the grades are all so tight and the difference in the test scores so small. Getting 2 more multiple choice questions right on the final may be the only difference between a student in the top 20% vs a student in the top 30%. The top half of a class may all be arguably just as smart and put in just as much effort as one another.

Is this a consistent theme across all law schools though? I kind of assumed this would be the case for the top 10% at a school like George Mason, but really didn't expect it to be the case for the top 25%.

[pomona]

I've talked to numerous friends currently in or who have recently graduated from law school and they gave me the impression that if you put in the effort you can easily be in the top half of your law school class. However, they said to be in the top 25% is more a matter of luck than anything else because the grades are all so tight and the difference in the test scores so small. Getting 2 more multiple choice questions right on the final may be the only difference between a student in the top 20% vs a student in the top 30%. The top half of a class may all be arguably just as smart and put in just as much effort as one another.

Is this a consistent theme across all law schools though? I kind of assumed this would be the case for the top 10% at a school like George Mason, but really didn't expect it to be the case for the top 25%.

Why?

[*kiki*]

I've talked to numerous friends currently in or who have recently graduated from law school and they gave me the impression that if you put in the effort you can easily be in the top half of your law school class. However, they said to be in the top 25% is more a matter of luck than anything else because the grades are all so tight and the difference in the test scores so small. Getting 2 more multiple choice questions right on the final may be the only difference between a student in the top 20% vs a student in the top 30%. The top half of a class may all be arguably just as smart and put in just as much effort as one another.

Is this a consistent theme across all law schools though? I kind of assumed this would be the case for the top 10% at a school like George Mason, but really didn't expect it to be the case for the top 25%.

Why?

As I mentioned before, Mason students didn't seem to be too grade oriented. At least the ones at ASW didn't seem to be this way. And I guess to me, 25% still seems to be a significant chunck of the student body. I may be extremely off in my assumptions, and I am trying to keep an open mind so as to not be too shocked.

[PubIntLawyer]

I feel like I'm starting to get an ulcer just thinking about grades.

[rayiner]

However, they said to be in the top 25% is more a matter of luck than anything else because the grades are all so tight and the difference in the test scores so small.

This is an exaggeration. Compare the forced curves to the class-ranking cut-offs at a place like GULC. If luck were such a big factor, the standard deviation would be a lot smaller than it is. In order to get the reported rank-cuttoffs, people in the top 10-15% overall have to place around that mark in most of their classes, only getting a few median grades here and there.

Now, the competition may well be tight, with 2 questions separating top 20% from top 30%, but that doesn't mean that its mostly luck. In order for the numbers to work out the way they do, a top 20% student has to pretty consistently get 2 more questions right than a top 30% student.

[AbsolutLax]

I feel like I'm starting to get an ulcer just thinking about grades.

I loled at work

As interested as I am to see how the grades go, I want to see if law school is as similar to high school as everyone says. What have you all heard?

[pomona]

I feel like I'm starting to get an ulcer just thinking about grades.

I loled at work

As interested as I am to see how the grades go, I want to see if law school is as similar to high school as everyone says. What have you all heard?

I've heard it is more like a full-time job than anything else.

[tchadwick]

Bye, all. I am defecting to the Wake Forest Class of 2012 thread. Good luck!