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Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:06 am
by Lawguru
mikeytwoshoes wrote:What did everyone think about the email from Iowa today?

I’m slightly skeptical about their claim to an open doors policy. It seems unlikely that we’ll be in the student lounge all that often.

The small classes seem good and I like the faculty to student ratio.

Collegiality is nice but I’ll be surprised if competition isn’t fierce. It might be less so at U of Iowa but we’re all people who missed out on the T14 by a few scaled points on the LSAT or a few top grades for GPA.

BTW I officially committed to signing a lease*.

*If the right apartment becomes available.


That's sort of goofy reasoning. I actually don't think the competition will be that ridiculous. I have a good friend of average intelligence in the top half of the class. No matter where you go, and I mean no matter where....for every ridiculously smart and organized kid there is one who doesn't give a shit or doesn't mind just getting by. That is my thought at least.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:25 pm
by crystalhawkeye
Lawguru wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:What did everyone think about the email from Iowa today?

I’m slightly skeptical about their claim to an open doors policy. It seems unlikely that we’ll be in the student lounge all that often.

The small classes seem good and I like the faculty to student ratio.

Collegiality is nice but I’ll be surprised if competition isn’t fierce. It might be less so at U of Iowa but we’re all people who missed out on the T14 by a few scaled points on the LSAT or a few top grades for GPA.

BTW I officially committed to signing a lease*.

*If the right apartment becomes available.


That's sort of goofy reasoning. I actually don't think the competition will be that ridiculous. I have a good friend of average intelligence in the top half of the class. No matter where you go, and I mean no matter where....for every ridiculously smart and organized kid there is one who doesn't give a shit or doesn't mind just getting by. That is my thought at least.

And to be honest, Iowa's numbers are not T-14 comprable. Median LSAT is 161; that number wouldn't let you scrape the upper schools. Their GPA numbers are a bit stricter than LSAT, but so are T-14. I missed the top schools by more than a few scaled points, but was able to get into Iowa because they are less restrictive. Because Iowa does both OCI and LR without anything to do with grades (lottery, writing competition), I think competition will be less fierce. There isn't as much pressure to be in the top 10% or risk complete failure.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:09 pm
by ElmGrant
mikeytwoshoes wrote:What did everyone think about the email from Iowa today?

I’m slightly skeptical about their claim to an open doors policy. It seems unlikely that we’ll be in the student lounge all that often.

The small classes seem good and I like the faculty to student ratio.

Collegiality is nice but I’ll be surprised if competition isn’t fierce. It might be less so at U of Iowa but we’re all people who missed out on the T14 by a few scaled points on the LSAT or a few top grades for GPA.

BTW I officially committed to signing a lease*.

*If the right apartment becomes available.
Iowa seems to send weird random emails. The subject was "Why IOWA? What Students and Graduates Say About Us", yet the e-mail didn't quote any students or graduates regarding their opinions on Iowa. It was just a list of claims that may have been from graduates but may just have been from the admissions people.

Regardless, I hope Iowa works out well for you guys. I just withdrew this past week ($250 poorer because I waited a few extra weeks to decide). Good luck.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:12 pm
by crystalhawkeye
ElmGrant wrote:Iowa seems to send weird random emails. The subject was "Why IOWA? What Students and Graduates Say About Us", yet the e-mail didn't quote any students or graduates regarding their opinions on Iowa. It was just a list of claims that may have been from graduates but may just have been from the admissions people.

Regardless, I hope Iowa works out well for you guys. I just withdrew this past week ($250 poorer because I waited a few extra weeks to decide). Good luck.
Where ya headed instead, Elm?

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:36 pm
by mikeytwoshoes
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:What did everyone think about the email from Iowa today?

I’m slightly skeptical about their claim to an open doors policy. It seems unlikely that we’ll be in the student lounge all that often.

The small classes seem good and I like the faculty to student ratio.

Collegiality is nice but I’ll be surprised if competition isn’t fierce. It might be less so at U of Iowa but we’re all people who missed out on the T14 by a few scaled points on the LSAT or a few top grades for GPA.

BTW I officially committed to signing a lease*.

*If the right apartment becomes available.


That's sort of goofy reasoning. I actually don't think the competition will be that ridiculous. I have a good friend of average intelligence in the top half of the class. No matter where you go, and I mean no matter where....for every ridiculously smart and organized kid there is one who doesn't give a shit or doesn't mind just getting by. That is my thought at least.

And to be honest, Iowa's numbers are not T-14 comprable. Median LSAT is 161; that number wouldn't let you scrape the upper schools. Their GPA numbers are a bit stricter than LSAT, but so are T-14. I missed the top schools by more than a few scaled points, but was able to get into Iowa because they are less restrictive. Because Iowa does both OCI and LR without anything to do with grades (lottery, writing competition), I think competition will be less fierce. There isn't as much pressure to be in the top 10% or risk complete failure.

Even if the spots are awarded via lottery, hiring will be mostly dependent on grades. While grades might not be sufficient for Law Review, I can't see how any below median student would succeed in the writing competition.

People get top grades for a reason. According to GTM, they're good at spotting issues and explaining different ways of resolving them.

The point regarding the T14 wasn't meant to be taken so literally. No matter what our numbers were, we all wanted other schools and we all missed them by a certain number of points. Some of us, maybe most of us, have transfer in the back of our minds.

I hope you guys are right. I don't see the competition as cut throat or anything but I do see it as a constant pressure.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:57 am
by pomona
mikeytwoshoes wrote:
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
mikeytwoshoes wrote:What did everyone think about the email from Iowa today?

I’m slightly skeptical about their claim to an open doors policy. It seems unlikely that we’ll be in the student lounge all that often.

The small classes seem good and I like the faculty to student ratio.

Collegiality is nice but I’ll be surprised if competition isn’t fierce. It might be less so at U of Iowa but we’re all people who missed out on the T14 by a few scaled points on the LSAT or a few top grades for GPA.

BTW I officially committed to signing a lease*.

*If the right apartment becomes available.


That's sort of goofy reasoning. I actually don't think the competition will be that ridiculous. I have a good friend of average intelligence in the top half of the class. No matter where you go, and I mean no matter where....for every ridiculously smart and organized kid there is one who doesn't give a shit or doesn't mind just getting by. That is my thought at least.

And to be honest, Iowa's numbers are not T-14 comprable. Median LSAT is 161; that number wouldn't let you scrape the upper schools. Their GPA numbers are a bit stricter than LSAT, but so are T-14. I missed the top schools by more than a few scaled points, but was able to get into Iowa because they are less restrictive. Because Iowa does both OCI and LR without anything to do with grades (lottery, writing competition), I think competition will be less fierce. There isn't as much pressure to be in the top 10% or risk complete failure.

Even if the spots are awarded via lottery, hiring will be mostly dependent on grades. While grades might not be sufficient for Law Review, I can't see how any below median student would succeed in the writing competition.

People get top grades for a reason. According to GTM, they're good at spotting issues and explaining different ways of resolving them.

The point regarding the T14 wasn't meant to be taken so literally. No matter what our numbers were, we all wanted other schools and we all missed them by a certain number of points. Some of us, maybe most of us, have transfer in the back of our minds.

I hope you guys are right. I don't see the competition as cut throat or anything but I do see it as a constant pressure.

No. I would say a great number of entering Iowa students will have had Iowa as their top choice and will be absolutely thrilled to be going to Iowa, not other schools. Yes, people that are above the 75% of Iowa's numbers probably had T14 on their minds, but decided to go to Iowa because they were enticed with a big scholarship or just didn't get accepted anywhere else. But these people are not the majority.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:35 pm
by Lawguru
Looks like Iowa is 26 this year in the rankings. Up one! Way to go!!

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:59 pm
by crystalhawkeye
Lawguru wrote:Looks like Iowa is 26 this year in the rankings. Up one! Way to go!!
I think the leak was a fake...

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:18 pm
by Lawguru
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:Looks like Iowa is 26 this year in the rankings. Up one! Way to go!!
I think the leak was a fake...
I don't think so actually. It looks very legit. The guy who posted them has correctly posted the same leak at around the same time 2 years running now (this is the third).

http://thecriticalbadger.wordpress.com/ ... -cb-again/

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:22 pm
by crystalhawkeye
Lawguru wrote:
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:Looks like Iowa is 26 this year in the rankings. Up one! Way to go!!
I think the leak was a fake...
I don't think so actually. It looks very legit. The guy who posted them has correctly posted the same leak at around the same time 2 years running now (this is the third).

http://thecriticalbadger.wordpress.com/ ... -cb-again/
Oh, wow. Hadn't seen those. Well, I agree, it does look legit. And if it ends up being true, it'll be crazy that #1. Indiana made that huge of a jump (13 spots???), #2. W&L fell 5 spots for a 5-way tie for 30th and #3. Iowa, although only one spot, went up, furthering a case for why to go there.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:24 pm
by ElmGrant
You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:25 pm
by crystalhawkeye
ElmGrant wrote:You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.
See, that's what I thought. There are 3 "FAKE!!!11!!zz" threads floating around, and that Indiana jump is insane.

Elm, where you going next year?

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:43 pm
by crystalhawkeye
Interesting

Pages 256-261, if it doesn't go right to it.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:10 pm
by Lawguru
Told you guys those rankings were real :mrgreen:

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:28 pm
by crystalhawkeye
Lawguru wrote:Told you guys those rankings were real :mrgreen:
Hahaha, indeed. This is a good thing.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:10 pm
by Lawguru
ElmGrant wrote:You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.
I outsmarted a Michigan student. WOOT! :mrgreen:

So, Iowa went up a place. Is this a good thing or bad thing? I ask this because while we went up, IU-Bloomington SHOT UP, as did UIUC. Does this mean we're in a better spot, or worse as far as employment prospects go?

The other side is that Iowa's reputation ranking is extremely high, and is the same as Minnesota's, and other schools ranked higher than Iowa.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:34 pm
by pomona
Lawguru wrote:
ElmGrant wrote:You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.
I outsmarted a Michigan student. WOOT! :mrgreen:

So, Iowa went up a place. Is this a good thing or bad thing? I ask this because while we went up, IU-Bloomington SHOT UP, as did UIUC. Does this mean we're in a better spot, or worse as far as employment prospects go?

The other side is that Iowa's reputation ranking is extremely high, and is the same as Minnesota's, and other schools ranked higher than Iowa.
1 place is not going to change employment prospects. I don't think Indiana's boost this year is going to give it a huge advantage, and I'd say almost certainly not over Iowa. UIUC's move was not great relative to where it was last year either (27 to 23 is not a meaningful difference).

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:15 pm
by mikeytwoshoes
pomona wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
ElmGrant wrote:You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.
I outsmarted a Michigan student. WOOT! :mrgreen:

So, Iowa went up a place. Is this a good thing or bad thing? I ask this because while we went up, IU-Bloomington SHOT UP, as did UIUC. Does this mean we're in a better spot, or worse as far as employment prospects go?

The other side is that Iowa's reputation ranking is extremely high, and is the same as Minnesota's, and other schools ranked higher than Iowa.
1 place is not going to change employment prospects. I don't think Indiana's boost this year is going to give it a huge advantage, and I'd say almost certainly not over Iowa. UIUC's move was not great relative to where it was last year either (27 to 23 is not a meaningful difference).
All that really matters is the reputation among employers and I doubt that would change even with a twenty spot jump up or down. This reputation seems to come from past experience with Iowa graduates.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:24 pm
by ElmGrant
Lawguru wrote:
ElmGrant wrote:You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.
I outsmarted a Michigan student. WOOT! :mrgreen:

So, Iowa went up a place. Is this a good thing or bad thing? I ask this because while we went up, IU-Bloomington SHOT UP, as did UIUC. Does this mean we're in a better spot, or worse as far as employment prospects go?

The other side is that Iowa's reputation ranking is extremely high, and is the same as Minnesota's, and other schools ranked higher than Iowa.
I'm as surprised as anyone that the "leak" ended up being real considering all the flaws that appeared to be in it. It appears the leaked copy was a draft or something because it does look slightly different even though the rankings and data included were all correct. Doesn't surprise me about IU, money is a big factor in the rankings and Indiana has received about $50M in gifts over the past year from Eli Lilly and Mr. Maurer (hence the new name).

Correction for Lawguru, you outguessed a future Michigan student.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:52 pm
by Lawguru
ElmGrant wrote:
Lawguru wrote:
ElmGrant wrote:You guys need to pay more attention to this board.

These were proven to be fake last night. The formatting is messed up and Cornell's #'s are wrong.
I outsmarted a Michigan student. WOOT! :mrgreen:

So, Iowa went up a place. Is this a good thing or bad thing? I ask this because while we went up, IU-Bloomington SHOT UP, as did UIUC. Does this mean we're in a better spot, or worse as far as employment prospects go?

The other side is that Iowa's reputation ranking is extremely high, and is the same as Minnesota's, and other schools ranked higher than Iowa.
I'm as surprised as anyone that the "leak" ended up being real considering all the flaws that appeared to be in it. It appears the leaked copy was a draft or something because it does look slightly different even though the rankings and data included were all correct. Doesn't surprise me about IU, money is a big factor in the rankings and Indiana has received about $50M in gifts over the past year from Eli Lilly and Mr. Maurer (hence the new name).

Correction for Lawguru, you outguessed a future Michigan student.
Well, I think if you would have taken the 5 minutes to research the document you would have seen that it was authentic, especially if you looked at where it was sourced from etc.,

Anyway, I'm just giving you a hard time. Congrats on Michigan though, seriously.

Yeah, I don't think the up one spot gives IOwa a huge advantage, but I DO think (as ken implied in a post) it proves that Iowa is not a declining school, and it really pretty stable. He mentioned it as a T25, which I also think is warranted. I'm biased though.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:16 pm
by crystalhawkeye
Lawguru wrote:Yeah, I don't think the up one spot gives IOwa a huge advantage, but I DO think (as ken implied in a post) it proves that Iowa is not a declining school, and it really pretty stable. He mentioned it as a T25, which I also think is warranted. I'm biased though.
When I told other law faculty/profs. I was thinking about Iowa, they responded "Wow, that's a top-20 school..." So although the guy with whom I interviewed today wondered why Iowa, those in the know will respect us!, haha.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:31 pm
by ElmGrant
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:Yeah, I don't think the up one spot gives IOwa a huge advantage, but I DO think (as ken implied in a post) it proves that Iowa is not a declining school, and it really pretty stable. He mentioned it as a T25, which I also think is warranted. I'm biased though.
When I told other law faculty/profs. I was thinking about Iowa, they responded "Wow, that's a top-20 school..." So although the guy with whom I interviewed today wondered why Iowa, those in the know will respect us!, haha.
I really don't think they prove Iowa is not a declining school, but I also never thought the fact Iowa had fallen to 27th indicated as much anyways. The rankings are flawed because much of the criteria is based on stuff that doesn't matter.

For instance, employment % at graduation/9 months. 80% employment at crappy jobs is treated the same as 80% employment at better paying jobs. Also, expenditures per student is a questionable thing to rank schools on, as is the # of volumes in the library.

Iowa is a good school and will continue to be so long as successful graduates contribute back to the law school and administrators can attract up and coming professors. My only gripe about Iowa is that for a traditional Top 25 school, their scholarship practices mimic Tier 2 schools and below. Hardly if any Top 25 law schools put strict stipulations on scholarships like Top 1/3rd or complete loss of scholarship. It was the main reason why Iowa went from 1b on my list to #3 and I eventually decided not to attend.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:58 am
by greentrees
mikeytwoshoes wrote:I was kicking Isis around yesterday and it appears that our first class will be a week long introduction to legal reasoning.

Discuss:
And the week concludes with an exam. Enjoy. ;)

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:32 am
by Lawguru
ElmGrant wrote:
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:Yeah, I don't think the up one spot gives IOwa a huge advantage, but I DO think (as ken implied in a post) it proves that Iowa is not a declining school, and it really pretty stable. He mentioned it as a T25, which I also think is warranted. I'm biased though.
When I told other law faculty/profs. I was thinking about Iowa, they responded "Wow, that's a top-20 school..." So although the guy with whom I interviewed today wondered why Iowa, those in the know will respect us!, haha.
I really don't think they prove Iowa is not a declining school, but I also never thought the fact Iowa had fallen to 27th indicated as much anyways. The rankings are flawed because much of the criteria is based on stuff that doesn't matter.

For instance, employment % at graduation/9 months. 80% employment at crappy jobs is treated the same as 80% employment at better paying jobs. Also, expenditures per student is a questionable thing to rank schools on, as is the # of volumes in the library.

Iowa is a good school and will continue to be so long as successful graduates contribute back to the law school and administrators can attract up and coming professors. My only gripe about Iowa is that for a traditional Top 25 school, their scholarship practices mimic Tier 2 schools and below. Hardly if any Top 25 law schools put strict stipulations on scholarships like Top 1/3rd or complete loss of scholarship. It was the main reason why Iowa went from 1b on my list to #3 and I eventually decided not to attend.
Elm, I actually completely agree with your gripe about scholarships. The current body president at Iowa Law is pushing HARD to do away with that requirement. I know him personally, and apparently he is making good headway with the issue. I expect that in the next few years the requirement will drop. It is actually pretty arbitrary considering the infrequently evaluate each file. Most people with schollies say they have had no problem whatsoever keeping it, but it still irks me.

Re: Iowa 2012

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:46 am
by pomona
Lawguru wrote:
ElmGrant wrote:
crystalhawkeye wrote:
Lawguru wrote:Yeah, I don't think the up one spot gives IOwa a huge advantage, but I DO think (as ken implied in a post) it proves that Iowa is not a declining school, and it really pretty stable. He mentioned it as a T25, which I also think is warranted. I'm biased though.
When I told other law faculty/profs. I was thinking about Iowa, they responded "Wow, that's a top-20 school..." So although the guy with whom I interviewed today wondered why Iowa, those in the know will respect us!, haha.
I really don't think they prove Iowa is not a declining school, but I also never thought the fact Iowa had fallen to 27th indicated as much anyways. The rankings are flawed because much of the criteria is based on stuff that doesn't matter.

For instance, employment % at graduation/9 months. 80% employment at crappy jobs is treated the same as 80% employment at better paying jobs. Also, expenditures per student is a questionable thing to rank schools on, as is the # of volumes in the library.

Iowa is a good school and will continue to be so long as successful graduates contribute back to the law school and administrators can attract up and coming professors. My only gripe about Iowa is that for a traditional Top 25 school, their scholarship practices mimic Tier 2 schools and below. Hardly if any Top 25 law schools put strict stipulations on scholarships like Top 1/3rd or complete loss of scholarship. It was the main reason why Iowa went from 1b on my list to #3 and I eventually decided not to attend.
Elm, I actually completely agree with your gripe about scholarships. The current body president at Iowa Law is pushing HARD to do away with that requirement. I know him personally, and apparently he is making good headway with the issue. I expect that in the next few years the requirement will drop. It is actually pretty arbitrary considering the infrequently evaluate each file. Most people with schollies say they have had no problem whatsoever keeping it, but it still irks me.
Yeah I recall Dean Byrd saying at ASD that they give scholarships to people who they think will be able to keep the scholarships. This of course begs the question: why have the ridiculous requirement, then?