Texas Class of 2012 Forum

[Cogito]

I thought there was a general consensus that those subjects were on average more difficult. Just hearsay I s'pose, so I hope you guys are right.

Opera, your avatar is driving me crazy. What the heck is inside that flower? IS that a flower?

[Esc]

Hmm, aren't civpro, contracts, and property considered the most difficult 1st year courses? Sections 1 and 3 bunch them up together. Sounds like a bit of a disadvantage compared to sections 1 and 4, especially if you have to take them in second semester w/ that elective, no?

I think this is a matter of opinion. The only reason con law is considered "easy" is because everyone has some background in it due to required government courses that discuss the constitution. If you have had a job where you, say, work on contracts, you will probably already be more familiar with the subject matter than other students. Personally, I did an in-depth study of contracts and intellectual property in grad school (from the perspective of a publisher, not a lawyer), which makes me feel like I can at least follow along with it better than I could crim law, which I only know about from Law & Order.

Also, my dad (UT class of '78) and my brother (SMU '05) were both shocked by the fact that the schedules looked relatively easy to them. They said that they took a lot more courses for the full year (property, torts, and con law were some examples, though I don't remember which took what). My brother also said that his LR & LW met for quite a few hours during the week (I think he said 5, but that seems like a lot). It looks like ours is only one.

This made me curious, so I went to look at SMU's 1L schedule. Since your brother is a fairly recent graduate, I'm assuming his schedule looked like this:

http://www.law.smu.edu/Default.aspx?DN= ... 7881c4b7e9

SMU's 1L schedule has all the same courses at UT's, but their schedule is timed differently, as 4 of the 6 "core" classes are taken over two semesters. The only real difference is that they have two 3 credit LWLRs in 1L, whereas we have two 1 credit LWLRs and a spring elective FTW.

I also note that SMU's CivPro, K's, Torts, and Property are 5 credits (over two semesters) each, while their Crimlaw and Conlaw are 3 and 2 credits (one semester only), respectively. Perhaps this reflects a tilt at SMU towards classes directly relevant to corporate law?

[penni_rose]

Perhaps this reflects a tilt at SMU towards classes directly relevant to corporate law?

I don't know, but oddly enough he went to SMU wanting to be a prosecutor and now works in corporate real estate law.

Of course, I think SMU, like UT, does require more con law after the first year.

Also of note is that both of them told me all 1Ls took the same classes first semester when they were in LS. They thought it was strange that we don't.

[OperaAttorney]

I thought there was a general consensus that those subjects were on average more difficult. Just hearsay I s'pose, so I hope you guys are right.

Opera, your avatar is driving me crazy. What the heck is inside that flower? IS that a flower?

It's my favorite flower--the black orchid.

[Esc]

Perhaps this reflects a tilt at SMU towards classes directly relevant to corporate law?

I don't know, but oddly enough he went to SMU wanting to be a prosecutor and now works in corporate real estate law.

Of course, I think SMU, like UT, does require more con law after the first year.

Also of note is that both of them told me all 1Ls took the same classes first semester when they were in LS. They thought it was strange that we don't.

My guess is that modern-day UT divides the 1L classes by semester due to the heavy faculty commitment needed to run the small section program. Each fall 1L class that is taught in small section format requires four full-time faculty members (assuming each teaches a single 25-30 student class) in place of the one faculty member normally required for each standard, 100+ student large lecture class.

Assuming again that each faculty teaches only one class (either large or small), then for all four Sections, using the small section format for a single class per section requires a total of 24 faculty, twice as many profs as the 12 faculty needed to teach all classes using large lecture format (I'm not counting LRLW in this calculation). You also run into the difficulty of finding enough, say, Property professors to go around. If you only have 6 profs who can teach Property, you don't have enough to both run a Property small section class and ensure that all Sections are taught Property in the same semester.

I think that the small section program is quite valuable for UT, and I certainly like the idea of having at least one small class in my first year. I don't know how much of a practical effect it has in the classroom, but it certainly is a good partial defense against the "Big School" stigma. But I'm guessing that putting a workable class schedule together for 1Ls is something of a logistical nightmare for the faculty and the administration.

I don't think UT began using the small section format until recently, so (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm assuming your dad probably attended while all 1L classes were large section. In that case, it should have been simple for the administration to schedule it so that all students took the same classes in the first semester.

And SMU is a much smaller school (~175 FT/~90 PT students vs UT's ~420 FT students), so it probably doesn't have the same logistical difficulties in scheduling as larger schools.

[penni_rose]

Esc, you're right on that, I think. My dad said it was sections of about 150. He says he can't remember if there were 3 or 4. If there were 4 sections, that would be a much larger 1L class back then.

It does look like a logistical nightmare to set it up, but I'm really excited about the small section. UT undergrad was overwhelmingly large, but I was in an honors program that really made the place feel smaller. I had a lot of my classes with the same group of students. There were social events during the year, plus events in the honors dorms. I think that's what the society program (socially) and the small section (academically) will do that for the law school.

[countbizaller]

Esc, you're right on that, I think. My dad said it was sections of about 150. He says he can't remember if there were 3 or 4. If there were 4 sections, that would be a much larger 1L class back then.

It does look like a logistical nightmare to set it up, but I'm really excited about the small section. UT undergrad was overwhelmingly large, but I was in an honors program that really made the place feel smaller. I had a lot of my classes with the same group of students. There were social events during the year, plus events in the honors dorms. I think that's what the society program (socially) and the small section (academically) will do that for the law school.

The small class is nice because you have it with your mentor group. It kind of feels like home room did back in elementary school. You'll get to know those people and be friends with a lot of them so it's pretty cool to have a class with just them your first semester.

It also makes it easier to open up and discuss stuff with the prof. Some of those guys can be intimidating, and it doesn't help anything to have a complicated discourse with them in front of 100 people. If it's just the people in your mentor group, it really loosens things up. You also get to know the professor on a much more personal level, and, if you're lucky, maybe they'll play on your team in IM sports too.

[ziggy]

Did anyone get the email about UT football? Is there a law school section that everyone groups with?

[LawSchoolWannaBe]

On small sections: They are great. I loved ConLaw small section. I hadn't had any background in that type of stuff so it was really interesting. Reading SC cases is not my favorite thing to do though

On football tickets: I'm sure the FB group will have something up about it soon. I did it last year and it was OK, not sure if it's worth the extra money for me. I kinda feel like I'll just get the LASP this year and sit with friends wherever we can get tickets each week.

[penni_rose]

I'm not sure the season tickets are worth the money. It looks like a lot of the games I would want to see are away this year (OSU comes to mind). I think I might just watch them at home this year and determine if I'll have time to go next year.

Of course, if a group of TLSers decide to go in a group, I could be persuaded.

[blackknight]

The schedule actually doesnt look that bad. You have TexasTech on there and the last three games arent great, but are atleast decent opponents. I dont know if it would be worth getting the guaranteed seats though. Like penni_rose im kind of undecided if I want to get them this year.

[penni_rose]

That's sort of it. The only game on there I'd really want to go to is Tech. You have to buy A&M and OU tickets separately anyway and I'm not sure I'd really want to travel for those games when I could just watch them at the Alamo Drafthouse for the price of food. Now that I think about it, I might go to every game I can at the Drafthouse. I saw the OU game there this year and it was awesome.

[nahmorlah]

You can generally make up the cost of the tickets by selling a few, though.

[penni_rose]

You can generally make up the cost of the tickets by selling a few, though.

I tried that in undergrad. I found that student tickets were hard to sell because you have to have a student ID to use them. You can't make the sort of money on them that you could get for other tickets. And, honestly, who's going to pay face value for student tickets to the UTEP game?

[nahmorlah]

You can generally make up the cost of the tickets by selling a few, though.

I tried that in undergrad. I found that student tickets were hard to sell because you have to have a student ID to use them. You can't make the sort of money on them that you could get for other tickets. And, honestly, who's going to pay face value for student tickets to the UTEP game?

True, but you could sell the Tech game ticket and make up the cost of all the other tickets.

[penni_rose]

You can generally make up the cost of the tickets by selling a few, though.

I tried that in undergrad. I found that student tickets were hard to sell because you have to have a student ID to use them. You can't make the sort of money on them that you could get for other tickets. And, honestly, who's going to pay face value for student tickets to the UTEP game?

True, but you could sell the Tech game ticket and make up the cost of all the other tickets.

But that's the game I want to go to.

[nahmorlah]

You can generally make up the cost of the tickets by selling a few, though.

I tried that in undergrad. I found that student tickets were hard to sell because you have to have a student ID to use them. You can't make the sort of money on them that you could get for other tickets. And, honestly, who's going to pay face value for student tickets to the UTEP game?

True, but you could sell the Tech game ticket and make up the cost of all the other tickets.

But that's the game I want to go to.

That's true...that would defeat the purpose. I'm considering selling that one to fund all the other games.

[river.rocks]

I called the student health insurance office today and they told me it'd be almost $700/semester. that DOESN'T include vision or dental. that seems so expensive! what are you all doing for insurance for the next 3 years?

[penni_rose]

Has anyone else had their birthday lately? The law school sent me a birthday email. It had a cake with falling confetti and longhorns. It was pretty awesome of them.

[JazzOne]

Has anyone else had their birthday lately? The law school sent me a birthday email. It had a cake with falling confetti and longhorns. It was pretty awesome of them.

I got one too back in May. Nice gesture.

[penni_rose]

Has anyone else had their birthday lately? The law school sent me a birthday email. It had a cake with falling confetti and longhorns. It was pretty awesome of them.

I got one too back in May. Nice gesture.

I thought it was very nice, although I'm not sure it was necessary to reference my age. Fortunately I'm young enough that I don't lie about it yet, so it didn't really bother me.


Also, I just got an email with the subject "law school scholarship 2009-2010." Again, I thought I was getting more money. Nope, they just want some tax information or something. What an evil subject for that email!

[JazzOne]

Has anyone else had their birthday lately? The law school sent me a birthday email. It had a cake with falling confetti and longhorns. It was pretty awesome of them.

I got one too back in May. Nice gesture.

I thought it was very nice, although I'm not sure it was necessary to reference my age. Fortunately I'm young enough that I don't lie about it yet, so it didn't really bother me.


Also, I just got an email with the subject "law school scholarship 2009-2010." Again, I thought I was getting more money. Nope, they just want some tax information or something. What an evil subject for that email!

LOL

I got that message while I was sitting in a Law Preview class. I couldn't help looking around to see of other people got the email too.

[OperaAttorney]

Has anyone else had their birthday lately? The law school sent me a birthday email. It had a cake with falling confetti and longhorns. It was pretty awesome of them.

I got one too back in May. Nice gesture.

I thought it was very nice, although I'm not sure it was necessary to reference my age. Fortunately I'm young enough that I don't lie about it yet, so it didn't really bother me.


Also, I just got an email with the subject "law school scholarship 2009-2010." Again, I thought I was getting more money. Nope, they just want some tax information or something. What an evil subject for that email!

I know. Me too. LOL hahaha

[Esc]

I called the student health insurance office today and they told me it'd be almost $700/semester. that DOESN'T include vision or dental. that seems so expensive! what are you all doing for insurance for the next 3 years?

Right now I'm paying $60/month for some BS private policy that has a huge deductible and doesn't cover anything. I'm considering dropping my policy in protest and hoping that nothing happens to me for 3 years. Its not like they wouldn't drop me like a stone if I actually got severely ill, anyway.

[art vandelay]

http://texaslawyer.typepad.com/texas_la ... rship.html

What do you guys think? Is anyone else growing uncreasingly frightened about his or her job prospects even three years from now? Throw in the effects of cap-and-trade (which will be particularly deleterious in Texas' energy-based economy) and a potential national sales tax, I'm really very much doubting the wisdom of my decision to take out loans for law school. UT is a fine school, but I'm just not sure that lawmakers are doing anything to improve the state of the economy.