Texas Class of 2012 Forum

[OperaAttorney]

We're seceding anyway right? We're going #16 to #1!!!

Think about how great our career prospects will be after the war. HYS? psshht.. More like, TSH.

Man, I don't like Rick Perry.......

If Texas were to secede I would flee before a swarm of rednecks tried to set fire to Austin.

pssh elitist

Come on! Esc has a point.

[txag_09]

We're seceding anyway right? We're going #16 to #1!!!

Think about how great our career prospects will be after the war. HYS? psshht.. More like, TSH.

Man, I don't like Rick Perry.......

If Texas were to secede I would flee before a swarm of rednecks tried to set fire to Austin.

pssh elitist

Come on! Esc has a point.

Screw fleeing! Fight back! We got guns too, right?

[Esc]

We're seceding anyway right? We're going #16 to #1!!!

Think about how great our career prospects will be after the war. HYS? psshht.. More like, TSH.

Man, I don't like Rick Perry.......

If Texas were to secede I would flee before a swarm of rednecks tried to set fire to Austin.

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

[SSDD]

We're seceding anyway right? We're going #16 to #1!!!

Think about how great our career prospects will be after the war. HYS? psshht.. More like, TSH.

Man, I don't like Rick Perry.......

If Texas were to secede I would flee before a swarm of rednecks tried to set fire to Austin.

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

I have to say that unfortunately, I would have to flee like Esc. I would have to ask the wacko extremist rednecks (who, as my relatives, would probably listen to me) to avert their attention as I made a mad dash to Louisiana.

[Esc]

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

I have to say that unfortunately, I would have to flee like Esc. I would have to ask the wacko extremist rednecks (who, as my relatives, would probably listen to me) to avert their attention as I made a mad dash to Louisiana.

Dude, you would be going the wrong damn way.

[txag_09]

We're seceding anyway right? We're going #16 to #1!!!

Think about how great our career prospects will be after the war. HYS? psshht.. More like, TSH.

Man, I don't like Rick Perry.......

If Texas were to secede I would flee before a swarm of rednecks tried to set fire to Austin.

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

We can use our superior cunning. Rednecks have a number of easily exploitable weaknesses that can incapacitate them just long enough to gain the upper hand.

[de5igual]

yep. you should be heading south for taco land

[txag_09]

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

I have to say that unfortunately, I would have to flee like Esc. I would have to ask the wacko extremist rednecks (who, as my relatives, would probably listen to me) to avert their attention as I made a mad dash to Louisiana.

Dude, you would be going the wrong damn way.

NO JOKE!

[txag_09]

yep. you should be heading south for taco land

Good Lord...this didn't just come out, did it?

P.S. - As one of the people of Taco Land, I still found it funny.

[Esc]

yep. you should be heading south for taco land

Personally, I'd head west for New Mexico. At least then all I would have to worry about would be drunk drivers.

Edit: Oh, and sorrow. Such sweet, sweet, sorrow.

[SSDD]

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

I have to say that unfortunately, I would have to flee like Esc. I would have to ask the wacko extremist rednecks (who, as my relatives, would probably listen to me) to avert their attention as I made a mad dash to Louisiana.

Dude, you would be going the wrong damn way.

NO JOKE!

Damn, making fun of the rednecks and the cajuns. That's pretty much my entire blood line. I'm seriously offended folks.

[Esc]

pssh elitist

Be careful! I've eaten ARUGULA!

Oh, and I do have guns, but they have more, and anyway, I'm kind of a coward.

I have to say that unfortunately, I would have to flee like Esc. I would have to ask the wacko extremist rednecks (who, as my relatives, would probably listen to me) to avert their attention as I made a mad dash to Louisiana.

Dude, you would be going the wrong damn way.

NO JOKE!

Damn, making fun of the rednecks and the cajuns. That's pretty much my entire blood line. I'm seriously offended folks.

There is some serious overlap there.

You can make fun of my bloodline if you like. You just have to guess what it is.

[txag_09]

Damn, making fun of the rednecks and the cajuns. That's pretty much my entire blood line. I'm seriously offended folks.

All in jest.

[de5igual]

You can make fun of my bloodline if you like. You just have to guess what it is.

oooh pick me pick me

waspity wasp?

[SSDD]

There is some serious overlap there.

You can make fun of my bloodline if you like. You just have to guess what it is.

Judging by your avatar.....pirate? Kind of hard to guess the bloodline of a pirate. You should probably quit messing with the navy though, I know you're trying to make a comeback, but you're seriously affecting the image of Capt. Jack Sparrow.. Disney may have to hold off on the release of Pirates of the Caribbean part 4: which one is this again?

[Esc]

I do have a healthy dose of pirate running through my veins. That's about all I know.

[Snooker]

For all the hate GULC gets, and despite the fact that its career prospects are worse than UT/Vandy, it's never going to drop past #14. So long as GULC is the #14 school, the term T14 will have meaning. Every time someone asks what T14 means, USNews gets an advertisement. USNews would be foolish to let GULC's rank drop; that would destroy the internet mythology.

how are gulc's career prospects worse than UT/Vandy? i've always considered them as having a slight edge, a very expensive slight edge though

I'm not sure how bashing how some people interpret USNews was taken as implication that GULC is somehow a bad school. GULC is a great school in an enviable location and commands tremendous respect. Maybe suggesting that UT/Vandy might be a bit ahead of GULC?

UT/Vandy released their full employment stats sometime last year, iirc. Another poster on the forum posted a lengthy analysis that about 66% of UT/Vandy's classes had employment prospects for "market rate" jobs (six figures, clerkships, etc.), slightly ahead of GULC, which is a few percentage points lower based on all the available data. The bash against the T14 mentality is that if GULC and UT/Vandy aren't in the same league, there wouldn't be some years where UT/Vandy grads are ahead, and others where GULC is ahead.

I still think GULC is a bit better, but I think the legal market hasn't been as favorable for GULC as UT/Vandy, even in the years leading up to the recession. Lots of business trends could have impacted this. Houston firms have been gaining many more foreign energy clients looking to invest internationally recently, as well as arbitrate. The Original Design-Manufacture (ODM) business is also increasingly choosing Texas, such as with Foxconn's acquisition of HP's R&D facilities in Houston, which it is is now using to develop the Apple iPod.

With the recession, UT grads should be substantially ahead of GULC, just because it's bloody murder in Washington, while Texas law firms are either laying off a little bit (Locke Liddell) or not at all (Vinson and Elkins).

Just to make my intentions clear, this is not a bash against GULC, but justifies the position that the idea that there's a real barrier between the #14 and #15 schools is simply illusory. GULC/UT/Vandy are pretty much a mini-tier. But I don't see it in USNews' interests to let GULC slip past #14. It's good marketing, and like it or not, USNews' executives have a duty to shareholders, not to law students. This will probably be achieved through conservatism - avoid changing any factors in the rankings that cause that barrier to exist where it does.

[txag_09]

As I see it, GULC has two primary advantages:
- Strong presence in DC
- A slight advantage on the east coast, namely for those below the Top 25% mark.

If one is the type of student that will end up near the top of their class, like many of us like to think we will, then I think the advantages of GULC become marginal...especially the second one. Therefore I cannot find much to justify taking on the substantially larger debt load at GULC unless one is wanting to simply hedge their bets/buy some really expensive east coast insurance.

And yes, I believe that GULC is still a good school but wholeheartedly agree that they are propped up at #14 by USNWR for strategic reasons.

[Snooker]

I'm not so sure it's propped up so much as there's a big LSAT gap between vandy/ut and GULC, and while the other stats are about the same, the gap is substantial enough that GULC will be repeatedly calculated to be at least the #14 school.

Esc may be right that the USNews rankings will shake up at some point. That will depend on whether the value of the T14 marketing will be less valuable than a sudden shake up. I have a feeling it won't, though, because "T14" makes USNews out to be much more authoritative than even the magazine itself is willing to claim. T14 is on Wikipedia, it's in Anna Ivey's books. USNews isn't a ranking, it's the ranking.

[Esc]

I believe that in 5 years, UT could, by general consensus, be a better school than GULC. At some point assuming that UT (or, for the sake of the argument, Vandy or UCLA) does improve so substantially, USNWR has to acknowledge the change, or become irrelevant.

I don't believe that time has arrived, but, over the next few years, I will be curious to see if USNWR recognizes gradual changes or if it keeps the rankings essentially static until one year, bammo, they change everything in a big shakeup that will sell a bunch of magazines.

[txag_09]

I will be curious to see if USNWR recognizes gradual changes or if it keeps the rankings essentially static until one year, bammo, they change everything in a big shakeup that will sell a bunch of magazines.

We all know it will be the latter. In the end, they are in the business of business.

I think it has been interesting to watch how the talk about UT has morphed over this admissions cycle. When I first got on in October (?), I ran into a lot of people who talked like UT was a TTT. Now I can't think of a single person (save trolls) who wouldn't admit that UT is a "good school". Granted, I may have been viewing the wrong threads when I first got on, but I nonetheless feel like I have seen an appreciable change in attitude. It has been kinda cool.

[kurama20]

Not trying to bash UT or side track your thread....but could you all give some links to these great UT employment stats? From what I've seen it seems like you need to be at the top of your class at UT to land six figure firm jobs in major markets outside of Texas (DC, NYC, CA). I also noticed that you have to have the password to see UT's employment stats on the website. Not trying to down UT but that is REALLY fishy to me. I don't have anything against UT, in fact I'm considering it as one of my options next fall. But I'm worried about their career prospects (mainly for DC). Thanks!

[OperaAttorney]

Not trying to bash UT or side track your thread....but could you all give some links to these great UT employment stats? From what I've seen it seems like you need to be at the top of your class at UT to land six figure firm jobs in major markets outside of Texas (DC, NYC, CA). I also noticed that you have to have the password to see UT's employment stats on the website. Not trying to down UT but that is REALLY fishy to me. I don't have anything against UT, in fact I'm considering it as one of my options next fall. But I'm worried about their career prospects (mainly for DC). Thanks!

I wouldn't call it fishy. They probably just have things rigged that way to protect info that they only want admitted and current students to have. I'm sure you could get basic stats from the Career Services Office if you were curious.

With regard to life in DC for UT grads, have you read my post on page 11 of this thread? I summarized my conversation with a recently UT alumnus who works in DC. I can send more questions to him if you have any. Post them here or PM me. I'll call him right up.

[de5igual]

can someone email me the 08 employment statistics pdf? they deactivated my account when i deferred.

[art vandelay]

I lol'ed.

All the GULC/USNWR hate was a welcome break from my paper.

The CSO panel did seem to be under the impression that, since few UT grads want to go to NYC, those who do are eagerly sought after by the NYC firms. I dunno if this is true or not.

Stands to reason. They would be a rarer commodity. Fordham/NYU/CLS grads are just so damn cliche and boring. [/Sarcasm...sorta].

Sorry, but a UT JD can't be that much worse than a Fordham degree in NYC.

NYU/CLS, however... different story.

I think Sager's point re: UT's value in NYC was that you aren't as bad off in NYC with a UT degree as you'd be in Texas with a (say) Fordham/GULC/Vandy degree. That's not an unreasonable point at all. He's a supremely smart guy but I think he may have miscommunicated that point.