Wisconsin-Madison 2012!!! Forum

[Simpler Times]

I'm the same as you, minnesconsin. I wonder how many of "our kind" there will be?

I just finished up undergrad here too.

Also, I'm 98% sure you know me from another law school forum

[coolkatz321]

I'm really surprised that 300 students accepted...I remember when I met with Mike Hall, he told me he was trying to get the class down to 230 (which horrified me since I was on the WL). Looks like that won't be happening now!

[jfb]

Are any of you paying sticker out of state. I will be applying this fall and imagine that if I am accepted I will not get $$$ (3.9 gpa 161 LSAT). It really scares the shit out of me to pay full oos tuition but I really want to be in Madison, I'd love to hear that there are others who are doing this, for reassurance if nothing else.

Also, unrelated, does applying early in the cycle at UW help chances of acceptance much, would it help with getting $$$??

[lawrunner313]

I'm really surprised that 300 students accepted...I remember when I met with Mike Hall, he told me he was trying to get the class down to 230 (which horrified me since I was on the WL). Looks like that won't be happening now!

300 students accepted?? where did you read that? man, that is a huge class!

\

Also, unrelated, does applying early in the cycle at UW help chances of acceptance much, would it help with getting $$$??

I applied within a week of UW accepting applications, and I think it does help your chances of acceptance a little bit, because they will at least put you on the waitlist! I didn't get any $$ though, with a 162/3.2, so I don't think applying early would really make a difference that way.

[jcwilsn1]

Are any of you paying sticker out of state. I will be applying this fall and imagine that if I am accepted I will not get $$$ (3.9 gpa 161 LSAT). It really scares the shit out of me to pay full oos tuition but I really want to be in Madison, I'd love to hear that there are others who are doing this, for reassurance if nothing else.

Also, unrelated, does applying early in the cycle at UW help chances of acceptance much, would it help with getting $$$??

nobody got money this cycle who wasnt an URM according to LSN and what I've heard.

I'm paying OOS. I was fortunate enough to work for a couple years and save up enough money so I dont have to take loans out for COL.

It does scare the, as you say, shit out of me for paying such an enormous amount, but the choices of schools and amounts of debt this was the best decision for me.

I would do lots of research and apply to a number of schools in regions where you would like to work. In the end it might or might not be your best choice. good luck!

edit: i see some non-urms got money on LSN, but the numbers seem funny.

[Bankhead]

I'm still surprised you got dinged with a 164 and a 3.4

Was your personal statement about butchering hobos or something? (congrats on fordham)

Also dinged with 164 and a slightly lower 3.3.

[jfb]

Thanks, I should have a fair amount of COL covered as well. I just work with lawyers ( in government), who seem to think its kind of crazy that I want to go out of state without $, most of them went to smaller in state schools, where I could get $. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I'm missing, like am I the only one who thinks this oos tuition thing is doable?? but I guess I'm not.

[coolkatz321]

Thanks, I should have a fair amount of COL covered as well. I just work with lawyers ( in government), who seem to think its kind of crazy that I want to go out of state without $, most of them went to smaller in state schools, where I could get $. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I'm missing, like am I the only one who thinks this oos tuition thing is doable?? but I guess I'm not.

I deferred a year to get in-state tuition, but i know for a fact that there are people paying oos sticker.

[jfb]

Thanks, I should have a fair amount of COL covered as well. I just work with lawyers ( in government), who seem to think its kind of crazy that I want to go out of state without $, most of them went to smaller in state schools, where I could get $. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I'm missing, like am I the only one who thinks this oos tuition thing is doable?? but I guess I'm not.

I deferred a year to get in-state tuition, but i know for a fact that there are people paying oos sticker.

yes, keep the reassurance coming. BTW, how hard was it for you to get residency, I've heard it is not easy in Wisconsin.

[coolkatz321]

Thanks, I should have a fair amount of COL covered as well. I just work with lawyers ( in government), who seem to think its kind of crazy that I want to go out of state without $, most of them went to smaller in state schools, where I could get $. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something I'm missing, like am I the only one who thinks this oos tuition thing is doable?? but I guess I'm not.

I deferred a year to get in-state tuition, but i know for a fact that there are people paying oos sticker.

yes, keep the reassurance coming. BTW, how hard was it for you to get residency, I've heard it is not easy in Wisconsin.

I don't know, I guess I'll find out in Fall 2010

[NightPutting]

I can't believe those 164/~3.3's were dinged...with the overenrollment and this round of WL/Outs, I must have really been fortunate to get in with a 165/3.11...

...Lesson to all: Write LOCI's! Visit the admissions staff! Beg!

[Simpler Times]

Are any of you paying sticker out of state. I will be applying this fall and imagine that if I am accepted I will not get $$$ (3.9 gpa 161 LSAT). It really scares the shit out of me to pay full oos tuition but I really want to be in Madison, I'd love to hear that there are others who are doing this, for reassurance if nothing else.

Also, unrelated, does applying early in the cycle at UW help chances of acceptance much, would it help with getting $$$??

nobody got money this cycle who wasnt an URM according to LSN and what I've heard.

I'm paying OOS. I was fortunate enough to work for a couple years and save up enough money so I dont have to take loans out for COL.

It does scare the, as you say, shit out of me for paying such an enormous amount, but the choices of schools and amounts of debt this was the best decision for me.

I would do lots of research and apply to a number of schools in regions where you would like to work. In the end it might or might not be your best choice. good luck!

edit: i see some non-urms got money on LSN, but the numbers seem funny.

I got money from UW. I wrote Mike Hall an e-mail saying I would walk (I was in at Minnesota with instate and 20k a year) and he called me back up to personally offer me a decent chunk of change.

You just have to be forceful about it.

[jcwilsn1]

I can't believe those 164/~3.3's were dinged...with the overenrollment and this round of WL/Outs, I must have really been fortunate to get in with a 165/3.11...

...Lesson to all: Write LOCI's! Visit the admissions staff! Beg!

seems their first couple of rounds of WL, Accepts were all numbers that would accept the offer pretty quick, not sure why they are surprised at being over-enrolled.

like i said previously, 162/3.32 and I jumped at the chance at filling out that enrollment form online.

[jcwilsn1]

I got money from UW. I wrote Mike Hall an e-mail saying I would walk (I was in at Minnesota with instate and 20k a year) and he called me back up to personally offer me a decent chunk of change.

You just have to be forceful about it.

My numbers didnt really allow me to be "forceful." if you got 20k from UMN i'm sure your numbers were pretty excellent.

[Simpler Times]

I got money from UW. I wrote Mike Hall an e-mail saying I would walk (I was in at Minnesota with instate and 20k a year) and he called me back up to personally offer me a decent chunk of change.

You just have to be forceful about it.

My numbers didnt really allow me to be "forceful." if you got 20k from UMN i'm sure your numbers were pretty excellent.

I had pretty decent scores, but I also have the most ridiculous collection of softs for the UW ever. My uncle graduated from our law school, my mom never graduated from college, my dad graduated from the UW system, and I've lived in Wisconsin my entire life while working 30-35 hours a week in college.

I think I had everything covered except actual URM status.

[BadgerLaw2012]

Are any of you paying sticker out of state. I will be applying this fall and imagine that if I am accepted I will not get $$$ (3.9 gpa 161 LSAT). It really scares the shit out of me to pay full oos tuition but I really want to be in Madison, I'd love to hear that there are others who are doing this, for reassurance if nothing else.

Also, unrelated, does applying early in the cycle at UW help chances of acceptance much, would it help with getting $$$??

nobody got money this cycle who wasnt an URM according to LSN and what I've heard.

I'm paying OOS. I was fortunate enough to work for a couple years and save up enough money so I dont have to take loans out for COL.

It does scare the, as you say, shit out of me for paying such an enormous amount, but the choices of schools and amounts of debt this was the best decision for me.

I would do lots of research and apply to a number of schools in regions where you would like to work. In the end it might or might not be your best choice. good luck!

edit: i see some non-urms got money on LSN, but the numbers seem funny.

I got money from UW. I wrote Mike Hall an e-mail saying I would walk (I was in at Minnesota with instate and 20k a year) and he called me back up to personally offer me a decent chunk of change.

You just have to be forceful about it.

I too, was fortunate enough to get a large enough amount of money so that Wisconsin became a very logical choice. I am not an URM.

[BadgerLaw2012]

Applications are up at the Law School: http://www.madison.com/wsj/blogs/oncamp ... 82&ntpid=1

[shiloh26]

I wasn't able to glean any $ from the school with a 166/3.8 and persistance; I've badgered the admissions office about scholarship money up until a few weeks ago when I realized it was hopeless. I'm in-state, so I suppose that has something to do with it...

Other than the extra loanage, I'm excited to start in fall!

[Bankhead]

I wasn't able to glean any $ from the school with a 166/3.8 and persistance; I've badgered the admissions office about scholarship money up until a few weeks ago when I realized it was hopeless. I'm in-state, so I suppose that has something to do with it...

Other than the extra loanage, I'm excited to start in fall!

heh heh hahahahahahahahahHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA ROFLMAO ... errr sorry about that.

[BobDole34]

I wasn't able to glean any $ from the school with a 166/3.8 and persistance; I've badgered the admissions office about scholarship money up until a few weeks ago when I realized it was hopeless. I'm in-state, so I suppose that has something to do with it...

Other than the extra loanage, I'm excited to start in fall!

I don't understand what's up with Wisconsin. Is their thought "we have low tuition already, no need to spend $$$ on scholarships?"

Schools like Indiana and Illinois have much higher tuition, even in-state, but manage to throw a lot of money at accepted students to minimalize the difference. I've already read about Wisconsin offering smaller salaries for top profs, less money than peers for LRAP, lower amounts for public interest fellowships after graduation.

And not to start an AA debate, but at the same time, you can find countless examples over the years on LSN of exceptional underqualified students (I'm talkin sub-150 LSAT) getting sometimes a FULL RIDE. I cannot reconcile this. Yes, I get the school is extremely committed to diversity and I would understanding throwing that money at say, 157/3.5 URMs, but the disparity in top students getting almost no money and the $$$$ for 20 point lower LSATs seems difficult to understand.

What's the deal with $ and Wisconsin's Law School?

[danquayle]

I actually think Wisconsin has the proper attitude in operating its law school. UNC as well. Public Law Schools and public universities have lost sight of their intended goal --> educating the people of their respective states at a discount. Wisconsin appears to have a more nuanced approach to admissions wherein they give preference to in-state students and feel no heavily employ scholarship money to bolster their school's stats.

Of course, these law schools don't operate in a vacuum. The bottom line is that the value of law schools is derived largely from their measurable statistics. I know US News is constantly ragged on, but the reality is its a key cog in the positive feedback loop that is law school reputation.

Even assuming hiring partners don't care about the US News at all, law students want to go to the most reputable schools and they often use the US News as a proxy for that. If a high US News ranking results in a better student body, eventually hiring partners will follow the rankings as well.

So, while I commend for Wisconsin and UNC for sticking to their respective missions, the reality is they are going to get throttled by schools like Illinois and Indiana who essentially use their high tuition to subsidize scholarships for more statistically impressive students.

Its a flaw of the educational system in general. But it ends up penalizing the schools that don't play the game. And it will until we start treating education like the for-profit business it has become.

[BobDole34]

I completely agree down to the letter. I can't base this on anything but speculation, but I've felt Wisconsin seems to ride on its past image and prestige. I'm not sure their lack of adaptation to the new economics of law school admissions will sustain itself much longer as schools like Alabama even start to improve their objective class profiles.

Although, just a cursory glance at LSN seems to suggest on the sheer number levels, they are trying to change things starting with this cycle. But as for $, it's amazing someone with a 166 and in-state is getting literally ZERO dollars.

[BobDole34]

On a secondary note, and for some reason coming across as a debbie downer this morning: anyone feel like Wisconsin kind of lets incoming 1Ls float out at sea? I read on TLS about all of the other services schools provide: online databases to match roommates, exceptionally detailed information from the SBA (I love what WashU has: http://law.wustl.edu/admissions/documen ... de2006.pdf), updates via email from the Dean, and just a general community feeling.

At Wisconsin it seems like we got a somewhat useless letter in June, a message board nobody uses on the UW website, and some package (which I presume will be a little more useful) in a few weeks with our class schedules and more information.

Again, sorry to be so negative, but I just feel like the school seems kind of behind, not just in the way I outlined above, but also in its general appproach to the matriculation process. Given the size of the investment, I certainly hope it doesn't carry over to the career services and other important aspects of the school.

Edit: After a little thought, I should add that Wisconsin's website has some goodies (e.g. --LinkRemoved--) that are pretty helpful.

[coolkatz321]

I agree, actually. The weird thing to me about UW is that they have a TON of money, yet seem to be spending it on all the wrong things. I will say this, though--one of my parents' friends who's a Wisconsin graduate told me that, despite the professor pay scale, professors really want to teach there. They've got some of the best in the country, which probably helped contribute to their faculty quality rating (I think they were #19, could easily be wrong).

[NightPutting]

I agree, actually. The weird thing to me about UW is that they have a TON of money, yet seem to be spending it on all the wrong things. I will say this, though--one of my parents' friends who's a Wisconsin graduate told me that, despite the professor pay scale, professors really want to teach there. They've got some of the best in the country, which probably helped contribute to their faculty quality rating (I think they were #19, could easily be wrong).

Seriously, can we save the cynicism and disdain until we've got at least week of classes under our belt?

I wouldn't say they have a TON of money -- their budget is shrinking pretty dramatically this year, resulting in staff furloughs, etc. They certainly have a massive research endowment, and they'll weather this economy just fine, but they're not swimming in Scrooge McDuck vaults every morning.

As for the faculty's affinity for UW, I can certainly understand why. Madison is a rare fusion of college town and capital city that appeals to just about every demographic. (Man, that sounded like it came from a brochure)

But I have to say I too am disappointed by UW's scholarship standards. IU-B's rocketship up the rankings was fueled almost entirely on scholarship money, and certainly I'm not convinced that, ceteris paribus, Bloomington is half the destination for a law student that Madison is.

You just have to think UW could use the leverage they have in terms of campus/faculty quality and recruit higher quality students through the method mentioned earlier -- offering "phantom scholarships" -- in other words, raising the tuition to a commensurate level with Illinois or Indiana, but then offering what appears to be a greater amount of scholarship money. In the end, UW is charging what they would under the current system. But I think inflating applicants' egos with scholarship money, artificial or not, more often than not brings in a higher quality student body.