Columbia Law School 2012! Forum

[sbalive]

haha

http://www.law.columbia.edu/null/1L+Ele ... howthumb=0

the class description of Law and Contemporary Society on page 11 is pretty funny.

That's Eben Moglen, the Free Software movement legend... That sounds really awesome.

[LoveButton]

haha

http://www.law.columbia.edu/null/1L+Ele ... howthumb=0

the class description of Law and Contemporary Society on page 11 is pretty funny.

That's Eben Moglen, the Free Software movement legend... That sounds really awesome.

I took that class. I was warned that you should not take it unless you don't care about grades, and those warnings were right...sigh...

Beyond that, though, the man is brilliant and clearly cares a lot about his students. If you don't think law firms are for you, or if you want to be happy as a lawyer, or if you feel a general sense of malaise or confusion after first semester, he might be perfect for you. I think he's helped me a lot in figuring out what kind of lawyer I want to be.

PS: Sorry to keep butting in...I know this is a 2012 thread, but seeing Eben's name in here caught my eye.

[sbalive]

haha

http://www.law.columbia.edu/null/1L+Ele ... howthumb=0

the class description of Law and Contemporary Society on page 11 is pretty funny.

That's Eben Moglen, the Free Software movement legend... That sounds really awesome.

I took that class. I was warned that you should not take it unless you don't care about grades, and those warnings were right...sigh...

Beyond that, though, the man is brilliant and clearly cares a lot about his students. If you don't think law firms are for you, or if you want to be happy as a lawyer, or if you feel a general sense of malaise or confusion after first semester, he might be perfect for you. I think he's helped me a lot in figuring out what kind of lawyer I want to be.

PS: Sorry to keep butting in...I know this is a 2012 thread, but seeing Eben's name in here caught my eye.

Wow, don't apologize - your perspective is an excellent contribution. I do care about grades, but I'd still be willing to take it if it's that great. Do you think it was better more in terms of motivating / focusing, or did you also learn some useful stuff as well?

[Lem37]

haha

http://www.law.columbia.edu/null/1L+Ele ... howthumb=0

the class description of Law and Contemporary Society on page 11 is pretty funny.

That's Eben Moglen, the Free Software movement legend... That sounds really awesome.

I took that class. I was warned that you should not take it unless you don't care about grades, and those warnings were right...sigh...

Beyond that, though, the man is brilliant and clearly cares a lot about his students. If you don't think law firms are for you, or if you want to be happy as a lawyer, or if you feel a general sense of malaise or confusion after first semester, he might be perfect for you. I think he's helped me a lot in figuring out what kind of lawyer I want to be.

PS: Sorry to keep butting in...I know this is a 2012 thread, but seeing Eben's name in here caught my eye.

What do you mean by "shouldn't take it unless you don't care about grades"? As in, he's a tough grader?

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by his course description, but it's also a little bit abrasive for my bright-eyed bushy-tailed taste.

[LoveButton]

Gosh, this turned out much longer than I anticipated, and is probably a whole lot more information than you need, but here goes:

I think Moglen makes it clear from the start that he does not value grades. He thinks the law school grading system is foolish and misguided, and objects to the fact that students are graded at all. He thinks it labels us like meat when those labels are meaningless and really represent more whether someone caught on quickly to law school or not, and where they fell on a curve. To some extent, of course, he is right. But the reality that most of us occupy is that grades are an important credential or factor in the label placed on our can of meat, and regardless of whether you want to go to a firm, work for the government, clerk, or start your own practice, that label matters to some extent.

As a result, he structures his course around frequent writings and frequent feedback. Or at least this was the sales pitch. The reality was that we wrote frequently, but only received feedback on one of our four major submissions. He didn't edit any of our assignments until the last week of June. He got through editing the work of about 1/3 of the class before he gave up because the law school was (appropriately, if you ask me) putting pressure on him to finally submit his darn grades. At this point, he told us all that he hadn't read most of our work and didn't know what our grades should be, that grades were BS anyway, and that he'd submit grades that represented his "best guess" of our actual grade. These grades are "provisional" and he expects he will improve them after he gives the rest of us feedback and we edit our papers. Over the summer. And possibly over next semester, since I still haven't received a word of feedback on my assignments.

That said, I don't know if this translates into him being a "tough grader." My own grade wasn't terrible (it was my lowest, but that's misleading because my grades are pretty good as a whole), and it didn't keep me from making law review, but the experience of having a provisional grade so late in the game - and still lacking feedback on the work I'm supposed to edit, over the SUMMER - has soured me a bit. His model would be fabulous if he actually did provide the feedback he promised, which he told us at the beginning of the semester he might not be perfect in providing. I am disillusioned because, while his students knew he hated the system, we didn't think we would also get kind of screwed in the process.

Now - and this is the reason I ultimately took the risk of taking the class despite being warned that I should only do so if I didn't care about my grade - I think the benefits of the class extend beyond learning new things. Law school (and I don't think this is just at CLS) definitely pushes you towards certain types of legal employment, whether at a firm or with a public defender, that may not be personally or professionally satisfying. Lawyers as a whole are one of the most depressed professions on the planet, and as a result many people end their legal careers without contributing anything worthwhile to society because they think they hate LAW. Moglen's position is that these people just didn't do what would make them happy - which he thinks would be working for some conception of "justice" or "meaning" - and as a result they have lost the advantages of one of the best and most powerful degrees and professions in existence. He practices what he preaches in that he has his own law firm, he only takes clients who meet his conditions, and he never feels as though he's doing something he does not want to do.

I took his class because I felt myself thinking about going into a law firm with a sneaking suspicion that it would not make me happy, and with no clue of how to structure my life to either avoid this or be aware of it and minimize its effects. I wanted someone to tell me that it was okay to take the less-beaten path, or to jump off the canned meat assembly line, to borrow a metaphor. I think I will probably still start out at a law firm. But taking Moglen's class has opened me up to a lot of the risks of such a thing, and I am more aware of the alternatives. I could see myself, ten years from now, reflecting on the class and realizing that it saved my career by giving me a new perspective. I think I will be happier in my career, and I think I will feel more empowered to leave professional situations that do not fulfill me. This may sound like an overstatement, but the value in the class truly lies in the long-term impacts. Moglen himself will tell you this.

Near the end of first semester, the professors teaching electives will all give short introductory speaches during a lunch meeting. You'll hear Moglen talk, and I think you will have an instantaneous reaction to him. You will either find him irritating and repulsive or you will be completely intrigued and inspired. His course is not a "safe" one by any means, but he puts himself out there and almost all of his cards are on the table. Whether you choose to take it will probably depend on how you're feeling about the "big picture" stuff - law school, your life, your career - in November and December.

[LoveButton]

I should add: I hope I didn't scare anyone. I didn't mean to give the impression that grades take on a crushing significance for CLS 1Ls. I, along with most of my classmates, didn't think or talk much about our grades this year. It just happens to be the advice that was given to me about Moglen, so I'm passing it on

[sbalive]

I should add: I hope I didn't scare anyone. I didn't mean to give the impression that grades take on a crushing significance for CLS 1Ls. I, along with most of my classmates, didn't think or talk much about our grades this year. It just happens to be the advice that was given to me about Moglen, so I'm passing it on

Thank you so much for providing your perspective! It's really helpful, and advice like this is fantastic.

[Antipodean]

So I got what i'm assuming was a mass email the other day about subsidized tickets for Broadway shows -

Dear 1Ls,

The Office of Student Services has partnered with the Columbia Arts Initiative to subsidize a small number of Broadway tickets for shows before orientation, as a welcome to NY and an introduction to the Columbia Arts Initiative. The tickets are first come, first serve. To purchase a ticket, visit the link below. We will distribute the tickets from our office as orientation nears.

Avenue Q 8/30 7 pm $22.50
Chicago 8/30 7 pm $25.75
In the Heights 8/30 7 pm $31.50

Is anyone else thinking of taking them up on the offer?

[Lem37]

So I got what i'm assuming was a mass email the other day about subsidized tickets for Broadway shows -

Dear 1Ls,

The Office of Student Services has partnered with the Columbia Arts Initiative to subsidize a small number of Broadway tickets for shows before orientation, as a welcome to NY and an introduction to the Columbia Arts Initiative. The tickets are first come, first serve. To purchase a ticket, visit the link below. We will distribute the tickets from our office as orientation nears.

Avenue Q 8/30 7 pm $22.50
Chicago 8/30 7 pm $25.75
In the Heights 8/30 7 pm $31.50

Is anyone else thinking of taking them up on the offer?

I'm definitely considering it. But I'd also like to see how busy/hectic my schedule is once classes start. It's hard to plan that far in advance.

[DrmgSprs]

I haven't seen Avenue Q yet, and have heard great things about it. I'm planning on getting a ticket, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Has anyone seen it before in NY?

[totebag]

.

[imchuckbass58]

Random question for you guys: Do you know when/how we pay tuition? A bunch of other schools seem to have already sent out bills, but I haven't gotten anything from Columbia. Any idea how this works?

[frank_the_tank]

Random question for you guys: Do you know when/how we pay tuition? A bunch of other schools seem to have already sent out bills, but I haven't gotten anything from Columbia. Any idea how this works?

I think that the financial aid money is sent to the LS and they take out the tuition from that, then we have to go to the FAO and pick up the remainder.

[06132010]

Random question for you guys: Do you know when/how we pay tuition? A bunch of other schools seem to have already sent out bills, but I haven't gotten anything from Columbia. Any idea how this works?

The to-do list they mailed us says to review our student account statements online after August 10th. Fall term payment is due by September 17th. When the statement is available an alert will be sent to our Columbia E-mail addresses.

[imchuckbass58]

Thanks guys.

[particleman]

Random question for you guys: Do you know when/how we pay tuition? A bunch of other schools seem to have already sent out bills, but I haven't gotten anything from Columbia. Any idea how this works?

The to-do list they mailed us says to review our student account statements online after August 10th. Fall term payment is due by September 17th. When the statement is available an alert will be sent to our Columbia E-mail addresses.

I'm living out the country until the end of the month so haven't been receiving my mail. Assuming you meant "mailed" and not Emailed, would anyone mind posting that list for me? Feel free to throw in any other critical information I may have missed from recent mailings

Thanks!

[06132010]

Random question for you guys: Do you know when/how we pay tuition? A bunch of other schools seem to have already sent out bills, but I haven't gotten anything from Columbia. Any idea how this works?

The to-do list they mailed us says to review our student account statements online after August 10th. Fall term payment is due by September 17th. When the statement is available an alert will be sent to our Columbia E-mail addresses.

I'm living out the country until the end of the month so haven't been receiving my mail. Assuming you meant "mailed" and not Emailed, would anyone mind posting that list for me? Feel free to throw in any other critical information I may have missed from recent mailings

Thanks!

Here's the other stuff on the checklist:
- Upload a photo for your University ID card at http://www.columbia.edu/cu/id by July 20th
- Declare your meningococcal meningitis vaccination decision before registering for classes at http://www.health.columbia.edu
- Submit the measles, mumps and rubella record and any related documentation to Health Services by August 31st (think it's at health.columbia.edu)
- Insurance: confirm your automatic enrollment in Columbia's basic insurance plan, upgrade your selection to comprehensive, or resquest a waiver at http://www.health.columbia.edu before September 30th.

[aspasia]

anyone else do the entrance interview and have no idea what to fill in on the monthly estimate page...
I absolutely hate forms like this.

I'm a page or two late with this, but can someone tell me what this entrance interview is for? Is it from Columbia or from the lenders themselves? I got a letter from CLS a few days ago saying my loans were approved and that my lender would contact me directly with more information... should I be doing anything right now?

[frank_the_tank]

anyone else do the entrance interview and have no idea what to fill in on the monthly estimate page...
I absolutely hate forms like this.

I'm a page or two late with this, but can someone tell me what this entrance interview is for? Is it from Columbia or from the lenders themselves? I got a letter from CLS a few days ago saying my loans were approved and that my lender would contact me directly with more information... should I be doing anything right now?

1)the interview is just so you know what you are getting yourself into financially. none of it matters and you could fill it out with all zero's if you want, none of the info is saved.
2)you will get a letter (or 3) from your lender in a few days stating the amount of each of your loans..you don't really have to do anything

[aspasia]

anyone else do the entrance interview and have no idea what to fill in on the monthly estimate page...
I absolutely hate forms like this.

I'm a page or two late with this, but can someone tell me what this entrance interview is for? Is it from Columbia or from the lenders themselves? I got a letter from CLS a few days ago saying my loans were approved and that my lender would contact me directly with more information... should I be doing anything right now?

1)the interview is just so you know what you are getting yourself into financially. none of it matters and you could fill it out with all zero's if you want, none of the info is saved.
2)you will get a letter (or 3) from your lender in a few days stating the amount of each of your loans..you don't really have to do anything

Oh, cool. Thank you!

[whyamidoingthis]

I'm still confused about the ID card picture thing. The website (http://www.columbia.edu/cu/id/docs/Subm ... index.html) says that we just submit the pics to the law school.

[sbalive]

I'm still confused about the ID card picture thing. The website (http://www.columbia.edu/cu/id/docs/Subm ... index.html) says that we just submit the pics to the law school.

Yes, whatever you submit to AdmitNet will get published... As I complained earlier, I got confused and didn't upload my nice, sensible, professional photo but instead a stupid vacation shot Of course, I could be taking the student ID too seriously...

[MeTalkPrettyOneDay]

I'm still confused about the ID card picture thing. The website (http://www.columbia.edu/cu/id/docs/Subm ... index.html) says that we just submit the pics to the law school.

Yes, whatever you submit to AdmitNet will get published... As I complained earlier, I got confused and didn't upload my nice, sensible, professional photo but instead a stupid vacation shot Of course, I could be taking the student ID too seriously...

As long as they accepted your pic, I don't really think it matters that much. I submitted a graduation photo cause I had it on hand, but otherwise I would have just cropped a random pic facebook-style.

[UnknownElementX]

and as for the id card. I e-mailed them and they said that the admitnet photo will be forwarded on. The ID department has stricter guidelines, so with admitnet you submit a bigger photo and can actually have a nice background.

[00TREX00]

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