Harvard Class of 2012 Forum

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2012)
Locked
Harvard1L

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Harvard1L » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:17 pm

Pumpkin wrote:but the new Harvard wrinkle will be the enforced percentage that gets low pass? that seems lame... i know that everyone assumes that they won't be the ones in that category but then again..someone who got into harvard will have to be the unlucky one.
I don't think that there is any hard evidence that there will be an enforced percentage getting a low pass. As far as I know, there will simply be a suggested percentage, which many professors choose not to follow. For instance, one of my professors, who has been quite loose-lipped about the grade change with us, has assured us that he intends to give no low passes (as long as no one tests his generosity). This is no different than with the old grading scale, which also had a suggested percentage for B- grades. Also, I think you can reasonably assume that a competent effort on any exam will save you from a B-. One professor told me that the LP (which is approximately what was formerly a B-) was retained because, hard as it may be to believe, even those unpleasantly competitive super-gunners that comprise the entirety of HLS students blow off classes and exams (particularly as 2Ls and 3Ls).
Pumpkin wrote: Broader question about Harvard.. it's been described for years as a corporate law powerhouse. they've obviously done a lot recently to increase the focus on public interest. anyone (preferably hls students) have any take on whether this has lessened the corporate atmosphere?
First, Harvard has a lot of students. Even if only half of a class went to corporate law, it would still be a corporate law powerhouse. That being said, I haven't felt any pressure to do corporate law since I have arrived here. If anything, I have felt pressure to avoid working at a big firm. None of my teachers advocate going into corporate law (this is probably most people's experience), and campus life is so full of journal writing, pro-bono work, and clinicals that corporate practice seems to have nothing to do with the law school.

Pragmatically, I feel like most students who are serious about having a career in law see the value in spending a couple of years with a big firm to learn the ropes. Certainly once people start thinking about debt and job security, a nice corporate job starts to seem appealing (and firms are always waiting at the nicest restaurants off-campus to wine and dine you). But you can comfortably avoid any interaction with firms your whole time at Harvard, and there are plenty of people and events to support you.

If you want to do government work in the Obama administration (which is starting to seem like it is being staffed by HLS), Harvard gives you a huge edge. Harvard is favored in international public interest placement, too, due to its name recognition. As far as domestic public interest jobs, it is no more or less advantageous than Yale or Stanford. It is one of the best places to go if you want a clerkship or academia. The whole "corporate law dominates at Harvard" myth is so far from the truth it's sort of silly.

User avatar
Sunshine2

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Sunshine2 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:53 pm

KP429 wrote: On the downside, I can confirm for you that there still exists seating charts. On my visit to H, every class at Pound had a seating chart behind the podium with cutouts of all the students faces pasted on the seat where they sit during class with little check or X marks next to their names/face. THAT is scary.
What's with these seating charts? What are they for??

User avatar
Sunshine2

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Sunshine2 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:02 pm

Pumpkin wrote:nevermind, got it!
Which was it? with L or without??

masterpinky0509

New
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:38 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by masterpinky0509 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:06 pm

Sunshine2 wrote:
Pumpkin wrote:nevermind, got it!
Which was it? with L or without??
I got it too: it's with the L, and I actually got in my using capitalization: First initial Last name .jd12, password: LXXXXXXX...

User avatar
SparkyLives

Bronze
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:10 am

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by SparkyLives » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:19 pm

Sunshine2 wrote:
KP429 wrote: On the downside, I can confirm for you that there still exists seating charts. On my visit to H, every class at Pound had a seating chart behind the podium with cutouts of all the students faces pasted on the seat where they sit during class with little check or X marks next to their names/face. THAT is scary.
What's with these seating charts? What are they for??
Cold Calls

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Harvard1L

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Harvard1L » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:44 am

SparkyLives wrote:
Sunshine2 wrote:
KP429 wrote: On the downside, I can confirm for you that there still exists seating charts. On my visit to H, every class at Pound had a seating chart behind the podium with cutouts of all the students faces pasted on the seat where they sit during class with little check or X marks next to their names/face. THAT is scary.
What's with these seating charts? What are they for??
Cold Calls
Cold calls, and just being able to know your name when you raise your hand the first week or two of school.

regression

New
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:59 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by regression » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:57 am

i was wondering if anyone is in the JD/MBA program. Is it common for 1Ls to apply for it?
do 1Ls get some slack in the application process by virtue of school affiliation?

Harvard1L

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Harvard1L » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:53 am

regression wrote:i was wondering if anyone is in the JD/MBA program. Is it common for 1Ls to apply for it?
do 1Ls get some slack in the application process by virtue of school affiliation?
Although I am not in the JD/MBA program, I know a number of law students who are. Although I don't think it is common for 1Ls to apply to it, it is not altogether uncommon. However, your application is treated like every other, with no special advantage given by virtue of your affiliation with HLS. Thus, those who make it into the MBA program would have been able to go straight into the MBA program as well.

There is, however, a slight advantage to applying to the KSG from HLS, namely that they take your LSAT score instead of the GRE. This really skews the admissions rate from HLS into the KSG, which I think is over 90%.

User avatar
iagolives

Silver
Posts: 686
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:24 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by iagolives » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:36 pm

Harvard1L wrote:
regression wrote:i was wondering if anyone is in the JD/MBA program. Is it common for 1Ls to apply for it?
do 1Ls get some slack in the application process by virtue of school affiliation?
Although I am not in the JD/MBA program, I know a number of law students who are. Although I don't think it is common for 1Ls to apply to it, it is not altogether uncommon. However, your application is treated like every other, with no special advantage given by virtue of your affiliation with HLS. Thus, those who make it into the MBA program would have been able to go straight into the MBA program as well.

There is, however, a slight advantage to applying to the KSG from HLS, namely that they take your LSAT score instead of the GRE. This really skews the admissions rate from HLS into the KSG, which I think is over 90%.
I had no idea. This makes me super happy--one fewer standardized exam... Thanks for the info!

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


dueprocess14

Bronze
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:48 am

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by dueprocess14 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:37 pm

FWIW, my understanding from talking to current students is that you can take between 4-6 classes at the business school and/or HKS (apparently they've rebranded it from KSG to Havard - Kennedy School and it's now HKS). If you're not concerned with the additional signal of having an MPP or MBA, you could instrumentally get the coursework anyway. I'm not as familiar with the benefits of a JD/MBA over just a JD (although a friend's dad who got both from Stanford said he regretted bothering with both - in his case, he didn't need the JD), but I've been told by many many people that you don't really get much from an MPP you can't get from a law degree if you're smart with your course choices. Among other sources, Daniel Drezner (ironic, I know) had a blog post recently about that, with evidence coming from the many JDs in Obama's administration and the relative lack of any MPPs (http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... ing_a_list).

(edited to add that if you look through the comments on this piece, they're even more scathing about HKS than is Drezner, and as HLS alums, they might know...)

User avatar
FrenchiePatootie

Bronze
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:27 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by FrenchiePatootie » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:48 pm

hi everybody
i was wondering how soon we can check oue hls email account or is that only set up when we officially accept the offer?

Krswmact

New
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:34 am

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Krswmact » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:53 pm

you should be able to check it now.

User avatar
FrenchiePatootie

Bronze
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:27 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by FrenchiePatootie » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:54 pm

awesome do you guys know the link?
i looked around the website but couldn't find it...

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


User avatar
excitedutterance

New
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:18 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by excitedutterance » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:59 pm

FrenchiePatootie wrote:awesome do you guys know the link?
i looked around the website but couldn't find it...
https://mymail.law.harvard.edu

your username is 1st initial + last name.jd12 (e.g. jharvard.jd12); your password is your lsac acct number (LXXXXXXXX).

Congratulations!

User avatar
Objection

Silver
Posts: 1272
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Objection » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:02 pm

How are you guys getting from Logan to the hotel (if you're in Marriot Cambridge or Hyatt)?

Would be an expensive taxi ride right from the airport, but it would be a 2 mile walk w/ luggage if you take the subway to Harvard Square.

Pumpkin

Bronze
Posts: 135
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:13 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Pumpkin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:10 pm

whoa that is crafty. how am i supposed to choose another school over harvard if they are already sending emails to my harvard address??? too much!

User avatar
bgc

Bronze
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by bgc » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:13 pm

zabagabe wrote:FWIW, my understanding from talking to current students is that you can take between 4-6 classes at the business school and/or HKS (apparently they've rebranded it from KSG to Havard - Kennedy School and it's now HKS). If you're not concerned with the additional signal of having an MPP or MBA, you could instrumentally get the coursework anyway.
I went and found this link to Dani Rodrick's blog before noticing that Drezner quotes it.
http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_ ... uates.html
HKS faculty members have been active in the Obama campaign, and many of them (such as Jeff Liebman and Samantha Power) are expected to land senior positions. Also, HKS graduates figure prominently among political leaders abroad: the presidents of both Liberia and Mexico are HKS graduates.

But in the U.S., the situation seems quite different. If you are bright and are contemplating a potential career in American politics, you go to a top law school--not a public policy school. This does not seem to have changed much in recent decades despite everything HKS has done to make itself visible and relevant. Why?
I think it is partly inertial. JDs are in power and people wanting to make policy see that and get JDs. It also relates to the style of legal education in America, which is heavily policy oriented.

When I first started planning to go to law school the HLS/HKS JD/MPP seemed like the ideal thing. In talking to people involved with policy, however, it seemed that the MPP would not be a career boost, assuming that one were able to acquire the quantitative tools that accompany an MPP. That is a big assumption, of course, especially when compared to a heavily quantitative MPP such as Duke's.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
excitedutterance

New
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:18 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by excitedutterance » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:20 pm

Objection wrote:How are you guys getting from Logan to the hotel (if you're in Marriot Cambridge or Hyatt)?

Would be an expensive taxi ride right from the airport, but it would be a 2 mile walk w/ luggage if you take the subway to Harvard Square.
I looked into public transport but it seemed too confusing to have to remember after just getting off a plane. This is possibly because I'm not used to efficient or worthwhile public transit systems.

Anyway, I'm cabbing it.

User avatar
Objection

Silver
Posts: 1272
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Objection » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:26 pm

FYI, the housing application is up.

Edit: NVM, it says this one is only for returning students.

dueprocess14

Bronze
Posts: 342
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:48 am

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by dueprocess14 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:34 pm

bgc wrote: I think it is partly inertial. JDs are in power and people wanting to make policy see that and get JDs. It also relates to the style of legal education in America, which is heavily policy oriented.

When I first started planning to go to law school the HLS/HKS JD/MPP seemed like the ideal thing. In talking to people involved with policy, however, it seemed that the MPP would not be a career boost, assuming that one were able to acquire the quantitative tools that accompany an MPP. That is a big assumption, of course, especially when compared to a heavily quantitative MPP such as Duke's.
I think you're definitely right. Another interesting counter-position is that because most MPP programs only have a 20-30 year history, those who got MPPs are only just starting to be at the top ranks of policy-making, so this may change in another 10 years (I'm personally somewhat doubtful, outside perhaps of the State Dept.).

And I agree, I think you can get a fair amount of quantitative analysis as part of a JD if you're careful about how you use your electives. Certainly given HLS's strengths in corporate law, I have to think there's got to be a sufficient number of quant-type classes as part of the law school curriculum, let alone HBS or HKS.

Exciting, isn't it? Just talking about this stuff gets me pumped. [/nerd]

Currie84

New
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:32 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Currie84 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:35 pm

Objection wrote:How are you guys getting from Logan to the hotel (if you're in Marriot Cambridge or Hyatt)?

Would be an expensive taxi ride right from the airport, but it would be a 2 mile walk w/ luggage if you take the subway to Harvard Square.
A cab from Logan to Harvard Square is about $30/$35. I would guess that a cab over to those hotels would be like $40 then.

Another option would be to take the T then take a cab. You could take the silver line from the airport and switch to the redline, getting off at Harvard. From Harvard Square you could take a cab to the hotel. Taxis are plentiful, they line up near the Harvard T exit. The downside is that there'd be several legs to your travel (silver line--red line--taxi), which can be annoying. The upside is that it's much cheaper than cabbing directly from Logan to the hotel.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Harvard1L

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Harvard1L » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:45 pm

zabagabe wrote:
bgc wrote: I think it is partly inertial. JDs are in power and people wanting to make policy see that and get JDs. It also relates to the style of legal education in America, which is heavily policy oriented.

When I first started planning to go to law school the HLS/HKS JD/MPP seemed like the ideal thing. In talking to people involved with policy, however, it seemed that the MPP would not be a career boost, assuming that one were able to acquire the quantitative tools that accompany an MPP. That is a big assumption, of course, especially when compared to a heavily quantitative MPP such as Duke's.
I think you're definitely right. Another interesting counter-position is that because most MPP programs only have a 20-30 year history, those who got MPPs are only just starting to be at the top ranks of policy-making, so this may change in another 10 years (I'm somewhat dubious, outside perhaps of the State Dept.).

And I agree, I think you can get a fair amount of quantitative analysis as part of a JD if you're careful about how you use your electives. Certainly given HLS's strengths in corporate law, I have to think there's got to be a sufficient number of quant-type classes as part of the law school curriculum, let alone HBS or HKS.

Exciting, isn't it? Just talking about this stuff gets me pumped. [/nerd]
I agree with you about the JD/MBA and the JD/MPP. If you are thinking about doing a JD/MBA, you should probably ask yourself why both; if you don't want to do law you don't need a law degree, and if you do, you don't need an MBA. A simple MBA is 2 years shorter than the joint program; if you will be happier doing a non-law job, don't do law school. This study of Harvard JD/MBAs is particularly illuminating: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=812425

You're right on target with your analysis about the JD/MPP, I think. The MPP is certainly superfluous, but it isn't without its value in terms of academic work/skills (if you focused on economics/quant). One plus of doing both is that you can use the extra summer allowed by the MPP to explore public interest work. Also, there are fellowships available to law students that cover the full cost of the extra year at HKS.

User avatar
Sunshine2

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:34 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by Sunshine2 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:00 pm

Can you apply to HKS in your first year at HLS? What is the app process like?

User avatar
bgc

Bronze
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by bgc » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:09 pm

Sunshine2 wrote:Can you apply to HKS in your first year at HLS? What is the app process like?
Yes, you can apply in the first year. I'm not sure what the app process is, but I think HKS would take almost any HLS student. Policy schools and law schools are often fishing in the same pond of applicants. Policy schools do not typically get first pick.

I know that many grad programs will take an LSAT in lieu of a GRE for duals. Not sure that applies to HKS.

User avatar
bgc

Bronze
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 6:14 pm

Re: Harvard Class of 2012

Post by bgc » Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:12 pm

zabagabe wrote:And I agree, I think you can get a fair amount of quantitative analysis as part of a JD if you're careful about how you use your electives. Certainly given HLS's strengths in corporate law, I have to think there's got to be a sufficient number of quant-type classes as part of the law school curriculum, let alone HBS or HKS.
I think it's a question of discipline and a willingness to forgo other topics. One of the things that does appeal about the MPP, in addition to the PI summer that 1L mentioned, is the ability to get all the quant without sacrificing other law classes.

But I don't think I will judge that to be worth the extra year.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Locked

Return to “TLS Class of 2012 Forum”