RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here! Forum

[SwollenMonkey]

Well, if after I graduate LS I cannot find employment, I'm heading to the military to become a military lawyer. Screw this crap. At least Uncle Sam is always hiring.

Standard TLS response:

You think that's going to happen but all those T14 grads and laid off biglaw lawyers are taking all the JAG jobs, and the JAG recruiter's jobs, and like recalling people from the national guard and taking their jobs at home and in Iraq, AT THE SAME TIME.

Realistic reply:

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh righhhhtttt.

[LateNight]

am i the only one who thinks i'd be just as happy with 145k as i would with 160k? shit, make it 125k while you're at it.

Start the bidding I will take 60k

[Core]

This thread necessitates an Economy Recovery thread.

[James Bond]

This thread necessitates an Economy Recovery thread.

Nonsense. There will be another crash within the next year. The market is way over-valued still.

[Paichka]

Well, if after I graduate LS I cannot find employment, I'm heading to the military to become a military lawyer. Screw this crap. At least Uncle Sam is always hiring.

I was in a "State of the Corps" briefing last week, and it turns out that over 2k people applied for Army JAG positions this cycle. We took 200.

[James Bond]

Well, if after I graduate LS I cannot find employment, I'm heading to the military to become a military lawyer. Screw this crap. At least Uncle Sam is always hiring.

I was in a "State of the Corps" briefing last week, and it turns out that over 2k people applied for Army JAG positions this cycle. We took 200.

Now the ones that you don't take...do they still have to stay in the Army?

Like do you get JAG then enlist or do you enlist and then apply for JAG?

[Paichka]

No, that isn't how it works. You don't enlist -- you apply for a direct commission. It means you come straight in as an officer. There's a military law thread over in FAQ if you're interested.

My point is that we shouldn't be anyone's backup plan. Believe it or not, but it IS competitive, and we aren't hurting for applicants. As far as general enlistments, though, sure -- Uncle Sam is always hiring if you aren't picky about the job you do.

[James Bond]

No, that isn't how it works. You don't enlist -- you apply for a direct commission. It means you come straight in as an officer. There's a military law thread over in FAQ if you're interested.

My point is that we shouldn't be anyone's backup plan. Believe it or not, but it IS competitive, and we aren't hurting for applicants. As far as general enlistments, though, sure -- Uncle Sam is always hiring if you aren't picky about the job you do.

I'm not interested. I'm just wondering if the 1800 that didn't get the job they wanted are stuck in the military

[Paichka]

No, that isn't how it works. You don't enlist -- you apply for a direct commission. It means you come straight in as an officer. There's a military law thread over in FAQ if you're interested.

My point is that we shouldn't be anyone's backup plan. Believe it or not, but it IS competitive, and we aren't hurting for applicants. As far as general enlistments, though, sure -- Uncle Sam is always hiring if you aren't picky about the job you do.

I'm not interested. I'm just wondering if the 1800 that didn't get the job they wanted are stuck in the military

Well then, no. Applying for a JAG position is like applying for any other job. If you don't get it, you aren't obligated to the US Government for any military service.

[tru]

.

[goawaybee]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

Simple poor mans badminton player steps up...


LAW is FUCKED, I was kind of thinking THE WORLD is FUCKED. Not on some little kid doomsday kick but none of this shit is sustainable. Tipping point issue here folks. Go poke more holes in the core of the earth and then pollute the atmosphere, people continue to breed when they can't feed, it is all an exponential mess. The great thing is after millions of years the universe can maintain balance. I am glad that we are only using X % of our brains, we would have already been wiped out if we were using any more. Hindsight 20-20 style, a little vision goes a long way. Every model is broken, advertising, real estate, banking, construction, farming/agriculture, manufacturing, service industry.

I don't really see all this as being that big of a deal in my lifetime, par for the course. Sure the money was good in all kinds of industries/careers but as we keep pushing down technology road we are minimizing the need for us to "work" on a real level. That is efficiency at work, why do with more what can be done with less. Alas we hit a little stumbling block, shit is moving kind of quick. Capitalism and sustainability don't really hand shake very well. Big money in natural resources, damn those are finite, lets get into credit, no how about banking, hmmm that is a mess, how about technology dot com or die, hmmm that seems tired, what's the next big thing, well we outsourced everything the tech wave didn't last too long... so now we can watch all these other nations swell with a mythological middle class (reality- have nots feeling good about having something), how about sustainability- GREEN JOBS...sounds good. damn there are too many of us, this shit is just unrealistic. Too many overqualified/overeducated people fighting for wages that couldn't even sustain a pet ferret.

We are all doomed, not really. fear not, own your shit, outwork or outsmart every human you come in contact with, if you are incapable of that you can find another way. I believe in you. If do what anyone else does, did or tells you to chances are you aren't applying yourself. Darwinism folks. It isn't going to get any easier, that is truth.

If you want to get into law, get into law. If you are expecting to "get through" and then have something handed to you...well I think you are trippin'. few years ago you could scoot by with a high school diploma, then you need a 2 yr degree, then 4 yr degree, then you needed a masters, now PhD or JD and you still can find work....maybe it has something to do with the education....maybe it is just people in general. If you want to get ahead in life, get ahead. It isn't rocket science.

If you are searching for fulfillment I suggest you go stare in the mirror for about 3 minutes, rip it off the wall and get to work. Life is short.

Feel free to PM some flamin' hate mail. As stated earlier, poor, simple but can def. slap the shuttlecock around a bit.

[burvowski]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

Simple poor mans badminton player steps up...


LAW is FUCKED, I was kind of thinking THE WORLD is FUCKED. Not on some little kid doomsday kick but none of this shit is sustainable. Tipping point issue here folks. Go poke more holes in the core of the earth and then pollute the atmosphere, people continue to breed when they can't feed, it is all an exponential mess. The great thing is after millions of years the universe can maintain balance. I am glad that we are only using X % of our brains, we would have already been wiped out if we were using any more. Hindsight 20-20 style, a little vision goes a long way. Every model is broken, advertising, real estate, banking, construction, farming/agriculture, manufacturing, service industry.

I don't really see all this as being that big of a deal in my lifetime, par for the course. Sure the money was good in all kinds of industries/careers but as we keep pushing down technology road we are minimizing the need for us to "work" on a real level. That is efficiency at work, why do with more what can be done with less. Alas we hit a little stumbling block, shit is moving kind of quick. Capitalism and sustainability don't really hand shake very well. Big money in natural resources, damn those are finite, lets get into credit, no how about banking, hmmm that is a mess, how about technology dot com or die, hmmm that seems tired, what's the next big thing, well we outsourced everything the tech wave didn't last too long... so now we can watch all these other nations swell with a mythological middle class (reality- have nots feeling good about having something), how about sustainability- GREEN JOBS...sounds good. damn there are too many of us, this shit is just unrealistic. Too many overqualified/overeducated people fighting for wages that couldn't even sustain a pet ferret.

We are all doomed, not really. fear not, own your shit, outwork or outsmart every human you come in contact with, if you are incapable of that you can find another way. I believe in you. If do what anyone else does, did or tells you to chances are you aren't applying yourself. Darwinism folks. It isn't going to get any easier, that is truth.

If you want to get into law, get into law. If you are expecting to "get through" and then have something handed to you...well I think you are trippin'. few years ago you could scoot by with a high school diploma, then you need a 2 yr degree, then 4 yr degree, then you needed a masters, now PhD or JD and you still can find work....maybe it has something to do with the education....maybe it is just people in general. If you want to get ahead in life, get ahead. It isn't rocket science.

If you are searching for fulfillment I suggest you go stare in the mirror for about 3 minutes, rip it off the wall and get to work. Life is short.

Feel free to PM some flamin' hate mail. As stated earlier, poor, simple but can def. slap the shuttlecock around a bit.

--ImageRemoved--

[drew]

This thread necessitates an Economy Recovery thread.

Nonsense. There will be another crash within the next year. The market is way over-valued still.

econ fail

[goawaybee]

burvowski...that logic games dino is the shit. I enjoy it.

I don't have the patience for smoking any more these days, I can say with honesty I wish I did though.

Thanks for the dino...made my day. the little things.

[goawaybee]

key word:

Main Entry: en·ti·tle·ment
Pronunciation: \-ˈtī-təl-mənt\
Function: noun
Date: 1942
1 a : the state or condition of being entitled : right b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2 : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3 : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges


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seems to be a very common issue among many people in the US. I am certain it happens other places, I first became aware of it 15-17 yrs ago. Since then it has become a rampant virus, it seems to infect most people who take on debt via student loans, mortgages, or credit cards. Some day people will be forced to face the simple reality that the TRUTH exists, unavoidable...you have to go above and beyond or just get really luck. Change is truth, it is THE universal law. Embrace it and do your best to incorporate it into your "life plan" or you will be victimized by it.

"It isn't the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." C. Darwin

[TTTGrad]

The writing has been on the wall for a couple of years but the below AmLaw Daily article confirms that Biglaw would rather spend money hiring efficiency consultants such as Altman Weil, to maximize profits per partner. The trend will continue into midlaw and perhaps to some extent small law. And what are the changes? More legal work outsourcing to India, shrinking associate and summer associate classes and reducing partnership offers (of course you can still aspire to be a partner, but you will only be an income or non-equity partner if you beat the slim odds against you). Still think it is wise to invest 3 years of your life and incur 6 figure non-dischargeable debt for a pipe dream?

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... costs.html

[newyorklaw23]

The writing has been on the wall for a couple of years but the below AmLaw Daily article confirms that Biglaw would rather spend money hiring efficiency consultants such as Altman Weil, to maximize profits per partner. The trend will continue into midlaw and perhaps to some extent small law. And what are the changes? More legal work outsourcing to India, shrinking associate and summer associate classes and reducing partnership offers (of course you can still aspire to be a partner, but you will only be an income or non-equity partner if you beat the slim odds against you). Still think it is wise to invest 3 years of your life and incur 6 figure non-dischargeable debt for a pipe dream?

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdail ... costs.html

This means Altman Weil is hiring!! Jobs For Everyone!!

[nystateofmind]

Well I wont even be in law school until 2013 and won't graduate until 2016, but I'm pretty sure things won't turn out as bad as some people may think. I'm pretty convinced the sky is not falling and if it is, then everyone's screwed regardless.

[blsingindisguise]

The OCI employer list at my school just shrank significantly for the third time in a row. I think it might be about 1/4 of its peak now. The way things are going I don't think it's going to be significantly better next year either.

[thebookcollector]

Over the past few months, I've become a regular reader of this site, ATL, and a few other blogs (Third Tier Reality, JD Underground, First Tier Toilet). Some of the blogs create a horrendous picture of life after a JD, while sometimes things on this site appear a bit rosy.

Anecdotally, every friend of mine that went to a Top 30 law school and graduated in 2008, 2009, or 2010 had a job at graduation. (Admittedly, my friends in the third tier were not so fortunate.) The NALP paints a bad picture, but it isn't easy to split out third and first tier data from first and second tier, and they use the same data as the schools. And while mainstream media have reported the market weakened (see the WSJ or NPR), they haven't reported the "sky is falling" mentality on some of the blogs. Good data just seems hard to come by.

I'd like to get everybody's estimation of how bad things are REALLY... cutting through the nonsense... by saying how much they think school's employment numbers are over-inflated. With most Tier One schools reporting an "employed at graduation rate" for 2009 in at least the mid-80s, it does seem rosy, but plausible. When people talk about how inflated these numbers are, by what percentage are they generally referring to? Ten percent over-inflated? Twenty?

Your thoughts?

[Veyron]

I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.

[mallard]

I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.

It's not remotely representative and I kind of doubt that it's true.

[electricfeel]

I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.

Define "legit school"

[thebookcollector]

So I figured I had better answer my own question.

I actually think the numbers in the mid-80s to high-90s are reasonable for the first tier. (Duke's 100% rate seems a bit outlandish.)

That said, I'd guess that 5% of the class become employed by the school (based on anecdotal evidence), and another 5% had deferrals that would ultimately be revoked offers. So I'd say the numbers are over-inflated by a magnitude of 10%.

[Veyron]

I approve of what you are trying to do here. However, outside of actualy talking to a hiring partner, I don't know who has the information we seek. I will tell you that every law student I've spoken to at a legit school or who graduated from a legit school w/i the past 2 years has a 6 figure job lined up but somehow I don't think that this is representative.

Define "legit school"

Top dog schools in my region in addition to T-14 schools

Oh, its 100% true but my sample size is small, 5-10 kids. Don't know why this is so difficult to believe.