‘Unprestigious’ job in gap year for WE? Forum

[flyinglow]

UG student. Competitive application numbers-wise, for most/all of the t14. However, I have literally zero substantive softs. I read the following reddit post and am considering taking a year off to bartend or work as a PT for the following reasons;

https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmis ... ame=iossmf

1) Improved chance of admission. I am unsure if bartending for only one year would be of much help, though. Does a job being part-time significantly reduce the boost?

2) Improved scholarship offers. This was mainly what prompted this post. What can an applicant with stats already above 50/75ths do to maximize their scholarship outcomes? I could be misinformed but I get the impression certain schools give large scholarships with significant consideration to PS/softs.

3) Fun. It seems like fun to work a low-stakes job I enjoy (bartend/PT/security are all on the table) ~25hrs/wk and study for the LSAT part-time, compared to the alternatives.

I will be graduating from a ~75-100 ranked state school with 0 debt and ~25k savings. Very unmarketable humanities major. I lived at home very frugally so I didn’t get much of a ‘college experience’. My ideal outcome is “biglaw with no loans”- if I could choose, TX/FL, leading me towards UVA.

Any general advice? Ie

“No, get *full-time* WE, at any white collar job”

“WE/softs only matters for admissions not scholarships. If you are already above 75ths just apply”

“Yes, schools love unique jobs, sounds like a good idea”

“You have no softs and need to build a narrative, find a volunteering project for a year or two”

Etc. Thank you!

[tlsguy2020]

White collar job won’t give you a boost over bartending for admissions. Go bartend, you’ll value it a lot more in the long run than any random analyst job.

[flyinglow]

White collar job won’t give you a boost over bartending for admissions. Go bartend, you’ll value it a lot more in the long run than any random analyst job.

Thanks! I mainly asked b/c I have seen the sentiment “schools don’t like KJD’s b/c they need to know you can succeed in an office environment”. If it is just *some* gap year that alleviates the KJD disadvantage I would love to bartend.

[nixy]

I agree that white collar/office experience isn't more valuable than any other kind of work experience for admissions purposes. I guess my reaction is as follows:

1) do what you will enjoy/value,

2) BUT, if you're this concerned about softs, it suggests you don't have work experience, so it could be worth doing something more office-y just to find out how you feel about it. It would suck to spend 3 years in law school only to find out you loathe working in an office,

3) AND I think it's valuable to learn what it's like to work full time before you're picking a legal job.

But 2 & 3 are entirely about "life lessons," not maximizing your chance at admissions (except possibly working full time will count for more than working part time). And I think 1 is more important than the others (you could end up wanting to be a mixologist instead of a lawyer! Or you could find out that bartending sucks and you want nothing more than never to have to do it again! either way, it's useful information).

Re: admissions/scholarships, at a lot of schools, scholarships are going to be used to woo candidates with top numbers. I think compelling stories come into play any time you have to submit additional essays for a scholarship, like some of the named/PI scholarships at NYU. In this context, building a narrative can be important, but I don't think that requires you to volunteer without pay for a couple of years - you can build a narrative while working.

[flyinglow]

I agree that white collar/office experience isn't more valuable than any other kind of work experience for admissions purposes. I guess my reaction is as follows:

1) do what you will enjoy/value,

2) BUT, if you're this concerned about softs, it suggests you don't have work experience, so it could be worth doing something more office-y just to find out how you feel about it. It would suck to spend 3 years in law school only to find out you loathe working in an office,

3) AND I think it's valuable to learn what it's like to work full time before you're picking a legal job.

But 2 & 3 are entirely about "life lessons," not maximizing your chance at admissions (except possibly working full time will count for more than working part time). And I think 1 is more important than the others (you could end up wanting to be a mixologist instead of a lawyer! Or you could find out that bartending sucks and you want nothing more than never to have to do it again! either way, it's useful information).

Re: admissions/scholarships, at a lot of schools, scholarships are going to be used to woo candidates with top numbers. I think compelling stories come into play any time you have to submit additional essays for a scholarship, like some of the named/PI scholarships at NYU. In this context, building a narrative can be important, but I don't think that requires you to volunteer without pay for a couple of years - you can build a narrative while working.

Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I have worked “full time” over summers since I was ~15 but it was retail/food service. Never worked in an office.

I agree it would be valuable to discern my ‘true’ opinion on office work. I guess the only concern/caveat is even if I dislike it (like most in biglaw..?) there aren’t other significantly better options, for a ~#100 state school humanities grad, regardless of 3.9high. I guess there is a long debate of if doing something you dislike is worth the $$.

Re: scholarships- I really hope they are used to woo candidates with top numbers, I don’t know where I got the impression the $$-$$$$ was reserved for “xyz has founded a (insert group) rights organization and wants to continue to advocate for them”. I guess it made sense in my head giving schollies for “ambitious PI” made the most sense from an ethical POV and such. Rather than student #283657 moving in-house quicker from transactional BigLaw, lol.

Notes: I have read a lot on the topic “KJDs take 1-2 years to get WE!” and this was one of the most well-written, and (at risk of sounding overly sensitive) non-condescending posts I have seen.

I reckon I will give a honest shot to do my ‘passion project’ for a year or so and presuming it is still financially unviable, apply. Thank you.

[namefromplace]

As far as admission purposes, a gap year wouldn't matter a whole lot. But if you're looking to save and get money and have a chill year before law school, it definitely wouldn't hurt. Work experience is more helpful when applying to jobs, but again, generally at the margins.

However, I'd say there are some "unprestigious" jobs that can make you seem interesting/hardworking and some that would not. For a lot of folks reviewing applications, personal trainer would give off bro/fratty vibes and could be a red flag. Bartending or security are a bit more neutral, but could be seen as a bigger plus depending on where you worked (i.e. if you bartended at a hip bar in a city where you would want to work after law school). Something public service-y but still makes money would be ideal (i.e. firefighting, 911 dispatch), but those jobs can often require a longer training/certification process. If you're looking at biglaw in Texas, something more classically blue collar (i.e. farming, trucking) could be looked on kindly.

[flyinglow]

As far as admission purposes, a gap year wouldn't matter a whole lot. But if you're looking to save and get money and have a chill year before law school, it definitely wouldn't hurt. Work experience is more helpful when applying to jobs, but again, generally at the margins.

However, I'd say there are some "unprestigious" jobs that can make you seem interesting/hardworking and some that would not. For a lot of folks reviewing applications, personal trainer would give off bro/fratty vibes and could be a red flag. Bartending or security are a bit more neutral, but could be seen as a bigger plus depending on where you worked (i.e. if you bartended at a hip bar in a city where you would want to work after law school). Something public service-y but still makes money would be ideal (i.e. firefighting, 911 dispatch), but those jobs can often require a longer training/certification process. If you're looking at biglaw in Texas, something more classically blue collar (i.e. farming, trucking) could be looked on kindly.

Appreciate the reply.

Curious as to why a gap year wouldn’t matter much? The reddit post I linked indicates the average admissions boost in the T20 to be ~30%, which is pretty significant (ie, 50->66.5%).

Do you disagree w/ the methodology, or believe it’s what “having WE” generally encompasses (a higher tier of softs) that causes the admissions discrepancy, and a year of bartending wouldn’t alter that?

I appreciate the feedback on job choice and found it interesting. I wonder if there are any “public service”-esque jobs that require minimal training and are ‘acceptable’ to only do for a year. My state has an 8-week EMT program, and I have a family member in the field- worth looking into..? 911 dispatcher sounds even better (for TX at least) but seems to require a lot of training.

(I do have a few ‘passions’- think something dumb like competing nationally 10 years ago at an irrelevant discipline like spelling, badminton, whatever. I could use that credentials and teach/train kids but it would be mostly fruitless, although could be somewhat interesting to admissions if they cared about my former levels of performance.)

Idea: Submit application, tutor @ irrelevant discipline in meantime. If stats carry me to desired results, enroll, if not, a) continue to tutor or b) look into PS job(s). I could live at home pretty much expense-free (adopted only child, lol) and save up $$.

Thank you!

[nixy]

Firefighting and 911 dispatch are great at all, but doing either of those things for an admissions bump seems kind of extreme. Military service is a similarly useful soft, but not something you do just to get into law school. And none of these things are at all necessary for a high-numbers applicant.

[flyinglow]

Firefighting and 911 dispatch are great at all, but doing either of those things for an admissions bump seems kind of extreme. Military service is a similarly useful soft, but not something you do just to get into law school. And none of these things are at all necessary for a high-numbers applicant.

Definitely- I think they were just using it as an example- however I am sure there is some sort of medium “entry level” job that, to put it bluntly, sounds cooler than it is. Like doing office admin/call center or related work for some military/police branch. There has to be something in that realm.

As you put it, I can live at home and save most/all of my paycheck, so I think if I am going to work it makes sense to take that kind of thing into consideration. My ‘passion’ is very unremarkable although regardless I will give it a shot.

[nixy]

Honestly I think it’s a better narrative to pursue your passion for a year than to do something that you think will look cool to adcomms. Pursuing your passion will look cool. You may end up following another path, which would be great, or again, learning you definitely don’t want to do the passion thing for work, which is also a great thing to know.

[flyinglow]

Honestly I think it’s a better narrative to pursue your passion for a year than to do something that you think will look cool to adcomms. Pursuing your passion will look cool. You may end up following another path, which would be great, or again, learning you definitely don’t want to do the passion thing for work, which is also a great thing to know.

Sounds good to me. My hesitation is that the passion just has zero realistic relation to my reasoning to attend law school (or, eventually, landing a BigLaw job)

I feel that having any degree of specificity makes the application narrative much stronger [ie, I worked as an adolescent therapist and realized how much I cared about improving family dynamics&divorce outcomes// worked in IB and find M&A intellectually mesmerizing//anything (STEM field) and (that field’s patent law) related]

(I concede you can stretch anything by citing “muh hard work, problem solving, complex, intellectually stimulating, collaborative/competitive”)

[nixy]

Honestly I think it’s a better narrative to pursue your passion for a year than to do something that you think will look cool to adcomms. Pursuing your passion will look cool. You may end up following another path, which would be great, or again, learning you definitely don’t want to do the passion thing for work, which is also a great thing to know.

Sounds good to me. My hesitation is that the passion just has zero realistic relation to my reasoning to attend law school (or, eventually, landing a BigLaw job)

I feel that having any degree of specificity makes the application narrative much stronger [ie, I worked as an adolescent therapist and realized how much I cared about improving family dynamics&divorce outcomes// worked in IB and find M&A intellectually mesmerizing//anything (STEM field) and (that field’s patent law) related]

(I concede you can stretch anything by citing “muh hard work, problem solving, complex, intellectually stimulating, collaborative/competitive”)

It can, but lots of people get into top schools without having experience that ties neatly into their future legal career. Plus you don't need any kind of compelling narrative to go into biglaw, you just need good grades at a top school and the ability not to be offputting in a 20-30 min. interview. There is a small subset of people with pertinent pre-law school experience, whose IB work (or whatever) can help them out at OCI, but there's no requirement of such a background at all.

[namefromplace]

As far as admission purposes, a gap year wouldn't matter a whole lot. But if you're looking to save and get money and have a chill year before law school, it definitely wouldn't hurt. Work experience is more helpful when applying to jobs, but again, generally at the margins.

However, I'd say there are some "unprestigious" jobs that can make you seem interesting/hardworking and some that would not. For a lot of folks reviewing applications, personal trainer would give off bro/fratty vibes and could be a red flag. Bartending or security are a bit more neutral, but could be seen as a bigger plus depending on where you worked (i.e. if you bartended at a hip bar in a city where you would want to work after law school). Something public service-y but still makes money would be ideal (i.e. firefighting, 911 dispatch), but those jobs can often require a longer training/certification process. If you're looking at biglaw in Texas, something more classically blue collar (i.e. farming, trucking) could be looked on kindly.

Appreciate the reply.

Curious as to why a gap year wouldn’t matter much? The reddit post I linked indicates the average admissions boost in the T20 to be ~30%, which is pretty significant (ie, 50->66.5%).

Do you disagree w/ the methodology, or believe it’s what “having WE” generally encompasses (a higher tier of softs) that causes the admissions discrepancy, and a year of bartending wouldn’t alter that?

I appreciate the feedback on job choice and found it interesting. I wonder if there are any “public service”-esque jobs that require minimal training and are ‘acceptable’ to only do for a year. My state has an 8-week EMT program, and I have a family member in the field- worth looking into..? 911 dispatcher sounds even better (for TX at least) but seems to require a lot of training.

(I do have a few ‘passions’- think something dumb like competing nationally 10 years ago at an irrelevant discipline like spelling, badminton, whatever. I could use that credentials and teach/train kids but it would be mostly fruitless, although could be somewhat interesting to admissions if they cared about my former levels of performance.)

Idea: Submit application, tutor @ irrelevant discipline in meantime. If stats carry me to desired results, enroll, if not, a) continue to tutor or b) look into PS job(s). I could live at home pretty much expense-free (adopted only child, lol) and save up $$.

Thank you!

I think you're reading too much into this Reddit survey; I think there may be other factors at work that it isn't picking up on. At the very least, not everyone's work experience is equal; an applicant who has a PhD or several years in a professional field may have a significant bump in their chances. Someone with a year of random post-grad experience will not. If you have the numbers, might as well apply now. Worst case scenario is you don't get an acceptance from schools you want and you just re-apply the next cycle.

I agree that putting the work into becoming a firefighter or a similar profession just for a bump in your application is not an efficient use of time. But if you're dead set on a brief career (and are open to a gap longer than a year) prior to law school, those are the kinds of things that would be mildly interesting to people.

Spending a year coaching would be a great gap year activity, particularly if you can get an actual full-time job doing it (i.e. with a school) rather than ad hoc work as a private tutor. Your work as a coach does not need to be related to your reasons for going to law school. It shows leadership and that you can hold a stable job. Those are the main boxes you want to be able to check off from a year of work.