Top Law Schools

How much of a national reach does UT have? Like obviously it’s not a t14, and more so a super regional, but how much of a national reach would that entail it has?

People who graduate in the top 5% at UT have access to prestigious national-level opportunities (see, e.g., Lisa Blatt) but it would be unwise to go to any school expecting to be at the top of the class.

I think it matters what you mean by national- I think it has a good shot at any AM law firm in NYC - but to get into a really good prestigious firm in NYC you'll need top grades. It probs can also go into AM law firms in other cities but takes a back seat to their market T20. I think the median outcome is working at a decent gig in TX.

crazywafflez wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:02 am

I think it matters what you mean by national-

This. UT arguably has a national reputation but, empirically, that doesn't translate to putting people in jobs in lots of places. Pipeline to Texas firms is a bit of a self-perpetuating thing. UCLA is similar.

All schools have some level of regional bias. You are going to find more Stanford grads in California than you will Yale grads. That doesn't mean a Stanford grad couldn't move to the East Coast or that a Yale grad couldn't move to California, but there's going to less of a well-trod pipeline and a smaller alumni network.

Texas, of course, isn't exempt from regional bias. It doesn't have top-tier the national reputation of Yale, but it is generally recognized nationally as a "good" school. The main obstacle to leaving Texas is that you are going to get fewer non-Texas offices affirmatively recruiting at Texas, and your application may be crowded out by applicants at schools where those firms do actively recruit (especially if you are further down in the class). So, for example, a New York firm that recruits heavily at Cornell is probably not going to pick a random mass mail candidate from Texas to interview over a Cornell grad that shows up at OCI with similar grades. But by the same token, a Texas firm would probably do the same thing to a Cornell grad (though a Cornell grad with close Texas ties may have some luck with a pre-OCI mailing if they are already spending 1L summer in Texas due to being from there).

Long story short: don't go to Texas unless you would be comfortable ending up in Texas post-graduation. If you are a die hard New Yorker unwilling to work anywhere else, you wouldn't be totally crazy to pick Fordham over Texas. On the other hand, it does have strong employment prospects, and someone who is geographically flexible could be well-advised to pick it over other T20ish schools.

From UT you can get into any large law firm once you get over the top 25% GPA mark (the highest class rank cutoff that UT publishes), including Cravath, STB, WSGR, etc. Some boutiques or judges might be a little more grade sensitive, but very, very few lawyers think "oh, only UT."

Agreed on regional strength being more about self selection of the student body than a limitation of the school's placement power.

I don't think it has much national reach at all, in the sense that firms wouldn't pass up on a candidate from a good regional school for someone from UT, just based on UT's name brand.

Recent UT grad.

Texas has decent national reach into most major markets, with NY probably being the easiest to get. That said, I wouldn’t go to UT banking solely on getting a job in NY/LA/D.C.

It’s certainly doable, but the simple fact is that non-TX firms recruit UT less than places like UVA, Michigan, or even Vanderbilt.

Also worth noting that some ultra-selective firms like Keker and Wachtell don’t recruit from UT at all. But, of course, others like Susman, Bartlit Beck, and Williams & Connolly, hire from UT regularly.

TL;DR- UT has good not great national reach, and you’d probably be better off elsewhere if you know for a fact you don’t want to work in Houston or Dallas.

Moneytrees wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:06 pm

I don't think it has much national reach at all, in the sense that firms wouldn't pass up on a candidate from a good regional school for someone from UT, just based on UT's name brand.

Depends where you are talking and what you mean by a "good regional school." You will probably have a better time getting NYC Biglaw from UT than you would from Brooklyn Law School or Rutgers (or similar). But I might pick Fordham over UT if my only desire was to work in NYC Biglaw.

Again, all schools have some regional bias. I'd also pick Stanford over Yale if my goal was to work in California (or Berkeley over Penn). I'd even say UCLA might be a better bet than some of the lower East coast T14 schools.

Long story short, UT is a great school with good placement, but its recruiting pipelines are focused on Texas. So it's probably not for you if you have no interest in working in Texas (at least for some period of time).

HenryHankPalmer wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:27 pm

TL;DR- UT has good not great national reach, and you’d probably be better off elsewhere if you know for a fact you don’t want to work in Houston or Dallas.

Second this take. Recent Texas grad too. I think the top 5% figure a previous commenter mentioned is too severe. From what I saw, ~top 30% at Texas makes you competitive for Vault 100 Cravath-scale biglaw jobs in NYC, DC, LA, and SF. I know a lot of people who were more like ~top 20% and got hired at Vault 10 firms in those markets. I also know a good number of folks who graduated around median and got slightly-below-market jobs at national firms in NYC and LA. Also, top firms from NYC, DC, and California recruit directly from Texas by participating in the on-campus recruitment process.

Having said all that, one of the great advantages of a Texas J.D. is a strong Texas-based network. So if all you want is biglaw in DC, for example, then Georgetown would obviously be a no brainer, and even GWU might make more sense depending on dollars.

About three fitty.

thelogan wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:56 pm

How much of a national reach does UT have? Like obviously it’s not a t14, and more so a super regional, but how much of a national reach would that entail it has?

UT has national reach. Everyone knows the school. People at the top of the class have all opportunities open.

jdoeman1234567 wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:05 am

thelogan wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:56 pm

How much of a national reach does UT have? Like obviously it’s not a t14, and more so a super regional, but how much of a national reach would that entail it has?

UT has national reach. Everyone knows the school. People at the top of the class have all opportunities open.

Why do people keep focusing on outcomes for the students at the top of the class? The top student at Thomas Jefferson can probably get a job anywhere.

UT does have some national reach, but it is, first and foremost, a Texas school.

This is a tough question to answer honestly. One major part of this is a lot of people who go to Texas want to live and practice in Texas. The big firms know this so I would imagine that could be one factor into their recruiting efforts when it comes to UT students. I guess what I am saying is a big part of the “Texas pipeline” is self selection on both ends, the candidates and firms

Maw0200 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:55 pm

This is a tough question to answer honestly. One major part of this is a lot of people who go to Texas want to live and practice in Texas. The big firms know this so I would imagine that could be one factor into their recruiting efforts when it comes to UT students. I guess what I am saying is a big part of the “Texas pipeline” is self selection on both ends, the candidates and firms

This is really true of all schools to one degree or another. Despite the national reputation of the school, Stanford graduates are likely going to stay on the West Coast and Yale Graduates are likely going to stay on the East Coast. The difference is that a Stanford graduate who decides to go to the East Coast shouldn't have too much trouble doing so, but a USC graduate may have more of an uphill battle when departing from the school's better trod career pipeline.

That being said, I don't think it makes sense to go to Texas unless you are happy to work in Texas. If you can get into Texas, you can likely get into a school with similar placement in the East Coast.