Ohio Schools Forum

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:28 pm

ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:24 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:31 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:18 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:04 pm
Have you looked at Akron's employment stats on Law School Transparency? https://www.lstreports.com/schools/akron/jobs
Ok over 90% have jobs.......
63.6% have full-time legal jobs. That's the single most important statistic regarding job placement, because you don't need a JD for any of the other jobs that make up the full employment report.

And regarding your current scholarship offer: You have a $30k scholarship (according Akron's 509, they don't do conditional scholarships, so if your offer says anything other than "good standing," they've changed their policy). Akron costs roughly $175k for three years at full price, which means you'll be over $140k in debt at graduation. How are you planning to repay that?
There are jobs that pay more than a lawyer that a JD helps you get in interviews and resume. So these superor jobs aren’t included in that number but would inflate it. You don’t “need” the Jd, but it helps.

Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
Wow .. so you're okay with JUST OVER a 50% chance of practicing the law? I am willing to say it, there is no job that an Akron JD will get you that will pay more than a lawyer's salary. Are them some? yes a few people will probably have some super weird outcome because maybe they came into school with a job offer after they get their degree. However, no your reasoning is completely out of tune with the realities of legal employment.

People are not trying to be aggressive here, they are trying to suggest that you are making an error taking out a 6-figure debt to achieve pretty abysmal employment outcomes.
Just over? It is north of 60 lmao

Abysmal? lol dramatic

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:29 pm

ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:25 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:23 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:13 pm
What are those jobs that pay more than being a lawyer where a JD helps you get interviews? Specifically?

And why do more Akron grads want those jobs than OSU grads, or grads from other higher-ranked schools?
CEO COO Gen counsel at start ups and software sales. A jd helps w all these

Idk osu law enough to comment definitively, plenty of potential reasons tho
You are just incorrect. If you think those outcomes are reasonably attainable out of law school, you are way more misguided than I thought.
Okay.......maybe you’re wrong?

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:49 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:23 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:13 pm
What are those jobs that pay more than being a lawyer where a JD helps you get interviews? Specifically?

And why do more Akron grads want those jobs than OSU grads, or grads from other higher-ranked schools?
CEO COO Gen counsel at start ups and software sales. A jd helps w all these

Idk osu law enough to comment definitively, plenty of potential reasons tho
Like what reasons?

Also to be a general counsel you have to be a practicing lawyer. It’s not a JD advantage job. And can you point me to a CEO or COO who got hired as a fresh grad out of law school because they got a JD? And who gets paid more for having a JD?

mandrewsf

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:01 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by mandrewsf » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:50 pm

It seems to me that you're having a hard time distinguishing between advice and criticism, and that really makes me think the law is not the right profession for you. I can't even imagine how you would interact with your clients, judges, or the opposing counsels when you get this defensive while interacting with a bunch of strangers on an internet forum who by all appearances were trying to provide genuine advice, rather than criticizing who you are as a person.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:52 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:29 pm
ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:25 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:23 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:13 pm
What are those jobs that pay more than being a lawyer where a JD helps you get interviews? Specifically?

And why do more Akron grads want those jobs than OSU grads, or grads from other higher-ranked schools?
CEO COO Gen counsel at start ups and software sales. A jd helps w all these

Idk osu law enough to comment definitively, plenty of potential reasons tho
You are just incorrect. If you think those outcomes are reasonably attainable out of law school, you are way more misguided than I thought.
Okay.......maybe you’re wrong?
But maybe they’re not?

Can you give a specific example that disproves what they’re saying? Like one specific CEO or COO who supports what you’re saying?

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:54 pm

mandrewsf wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:50 pm
It seems to me that you're having a hard time distinguishing between advice and criticism, and that really makes me think the law is not the right profession for you. I can't even imagine how you would interact with your clients, judges, or the opposing counsels when you get this defensive while interacting with a bunch of strangers on an internet forum who by all appearances were trying to provide genuine advice, rather than criticizing who you are as a person.
Hard time? Goobers here getting pwned and I’m treated as the wrong one LMAO

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:56 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:49 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:23 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:13 pm
What are those jobs that pay more than being a lawyer where a JD helps you get interviews? Specifically?

And why do more Akron grads want those jobs than OSU grads, or grads from other higher-ranked schools?
CEO COO Gen counsel at start ups and software sales. A jd helps w all these

Idk osu law enough to comment definitively, plenty of potential reasons tho
Like what reasons?

Also to be a general counsel you have to be a practicing lawyer. It’s not a JD advantage job. And can you point me to a CEO or COO who got hired as a fresh grad out of law school because they got a JD? And who gets paid more for having a JD?
Maybe Akron attracts more entrepreneurial, articulate students who can cut it in tech sales and management whereas osu is more bookish in account of the lsat score range they requre

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:21 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox
You can say how much because attorney salaries are well documented. You can easily find public defender salaries for your area of Ohio if you want to know precise numbers.

And hypothetical monthly debt payments don't dox you. I'm not asking you for bank account routing information. I'm asking how much you anticipate being able to pay in order to service your $145k+ debt from Akron. You've thought about this, right?

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Fireworks2016

Bronze
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Fireworks2016 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:40 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:56 pm

Maybe Akron attracts more entrepreneurial, articulate students who can cut it in tech sales and management whereas osu is more bookish in account of the lsat score range they requre
Never change OP. This has been grand.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:44 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:54 pm
mandrewsf wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:50 pm
It seems to me that you're having a hard time distinguishing between advice and criticism, and that really makes me think the law is not the right profession for you. I can't even imagine how you would interact with your clients, judges, or the opposing counsels when you get this defensive while interacting with a bunch of strangers on an internet forum who by all appearances were trying to provide genuine advice, rather than criticizing who you are as a person.
Hard time? Goobers here getting pwned and I’m treated as the wrong one LMAO
Contradicting people without evidence isn’t the same as pwning them, dude.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:45 pm

Also are we sure this isn’t johnnybgoode back again?

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:57 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:21 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox
You can say how much because attorney salaries are well documented. You can easily find public defender salaries for your area of Ohio if you want to know precise numbers.

And hypothetical monthly debt payments don't dox you. I'm not asking you for bank account routing information. I'm asking how much you anticipate being able to pay in order to service your $145k+ debt from Akron. You've thought about this, right?
I have THOT about it. Ive told way too many people my expected monthly payment and since I’m only person discussing Akron now that wouldn’t make sense to say. You can look up salaries yourself, I have an idea

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:58 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:44 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:54 pm
mandrewsf wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:50 pm
It seems to me that you're having a hard time distinguishing between advice and criticism, and that really makes me think the law is not the right profession for you. I can't even imagine how you would interact with your clients, judges, or the opposing counsels when you get this defensive while interacting with a bunch of strangers on an internet forum who by all appearances were trying to provide genuine advice, rather than criticizing who you are as a person.
Hard time? Goobers here getting pwned and I’m treated as the wrong one LMAO
Contradicting people without evidence isn’t the same as pwning them, dude.
I already said I’m not saying my monthly payment

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:13 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:45 pm
Also are we sure this isn’t johnnybgoode back again?
If it is, he's using something to mask his IP. I'm certainly not ruling that out, since the tone is oh-so-familiar.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:19 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:57 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:21 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox
You can say how much because attorney salaries are well documented. You can easily find public defender salaries for your area of Ohio if you want to know precise numbers.

And hypothetical monthly debt payments don't dox you. I'm not asking you for bank account routing information. I'm asking how much you anticipate being able to pay in order to service your $145k+ debt from Akron. You've thought about this, right?
I have THOT about it. Ive told way too many people my expected monthly payment and since I’m only person discussing Akron now that wouldn’t make sense to say. You can look up salaries yourself, I have an idea
Here, let me help.

Debt at graduation (including interest and origination fees): ~$150k
Expected salary for a fresh grad in general criminal practice (assuming you have a job as a lawyer after graduation): $50k
Monthly salary after taxes (ignoring health insurance, retirement, etc.): $3,333
Monthly payment on a 10-year plan: $1,725
Remaining monthly salary for all expenses: $1608

Note that the above is assuming an outcome in the upper half of the class from Akron.

Rule23andMe

New
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:28 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Rule23andMe » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:20 pm

OP, please keep us posted on your journey through school and beyond - I will read each and every update you post

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:54 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:19 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:57 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:21 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox
You can say how much because attorney salaries are well documented. You can easily find public defender salaries for your area of Ohio if you want to know precise numbers.

And hypothetical monthly debt payments don't dox you. I'm not asking you for bank account routing information. I'm asking how much you anticipate being able to pay in order to service your $145k+ debt from Akron. You've thought about this, right?
I have THOT about it. Ive told way too many people my expected monthly payment and since I’m only person discussing Akron now that wouldn’t make sense to say. You can look up salaries yourself, I have an idea
Here, let me help.

Debt at graduation (including interest and origination fees): ~$150k
Expected salary for a fresh grad in general criminal practice (assuming you have a job as a lawyer after graduation): $50k
Monthly salary after taxes (ignoring health insurance, retirement, etc.): $3,333
Monthly payment on a 10-year plan: $1,725
Remaining monthly salary for all expenses: $1608

Note that the above is assuming an outcome in the upper half of the class from Akron.

Cool numbers. Pessimistic

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:56 pm

Rule23andMe wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:20 pm
OP, please keep us posted on your journey through school and beyond - I will read each and every update you post
Thank you for investing in my success and story. I will try to update.

ignorantfoot96

New
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:14 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by ignorantfoot96 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:38 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:57 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:21 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox
You can say how much because attorney salaries are well documented. You can easily find public defender salaries for your area of Ohio if you want to know precise numbers.

And hypothetical monthly debt payments don't dox you. I'm not asking you for bank account routing information. I'm asking how much you anticipate being able to pay in order to service your $145k+ debt from Akron. You've thought about this, right?
I have THOT about it. Ive told way too many people my expected monthly payment and since I’m only person discussing Akron now that wouldn’t make sense to say. You can look up salaries yourself, I have an idea
This can't be a real applicant right? like at this point, there is just no way this is not a troll. (I'm asking to help me sleep at night - that someone who is probably going to law school can be this ignorant to logic).

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:59 pm

ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:38 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:57 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:21 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:30 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:26 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:04 pm
Repay it? By being a lawyer.....
How much money are you going to earn as a lawyer, and what are your monthly debt payments going to be?
How can I say how much until I get a job? Cart before horse

Monthly debt payment I’ll keep to myself, don’t want dox
You can say how much because attorney salaries are well documented. You can easily find public defender salaries for your area of Ohio if you want to know precise numbers.

And hypothetical monthly debt payments don't dox you. I'm not asking you for bank account routing information. I'm asking how much you anticipate being able to pay in order to service your $145k+ debt from Akron. You've thought about this, right?
I have THOT about it. Ive told way too many people my expected monthly payment and since I’m only person discussing Akron now that wouldn’t make sense to say. You can look up salaries yourself, I have an idea
This can't be a real applicant right? like at this point, there is just no way this is not a troll. (I'm asking to help me sleep at night - that someone who is probably going to law school can be this ignorant to logic).
Lol bro I’m no applicant I’m admitted. Go back to sleep

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


JamezPhoenix

New
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:03 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by JamezPhoenix » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:40 am

Rule23andMe wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:20 pm
OP, please keep us posted on your journey through school and beyond - I will read each and every update you post
I concur. This has become my favorite toxic soap opera to binge-watch. I even read some of these to my wife, it is just so great. OP, I want, no...I NEED weekly updates about your law school journey. I need all the juicy details about how you correct your law school professors in class, I need to know how you tell your interviewers at OCI all the ways that they are mistaken about the legal market. I am here for you and all the drama that you bring!

That being said, I would tone down the defensiveness just a touch, I would hate for you to get banned, then I would be deprived of my fix. And I actually do somewhat sympathize and agree with some of the things you have said.

A slight correction to Cav, they do have a debt repayment option whereby you pay back based on your income, which would be 10%. So debt repayment per month would really only be something like $416 per month. Also, i would assume he would not be locked into a 50K salary the rest of his life. I have seen a lot of posts about how so long as you dont suck at your job you get raises every year and after ten years you can easily be making six figures. Just keep on the 10% payment plan and you can be fairly comfortable, especially if you can add a second income to your household. Sure, you might be in debt repayment forever, but if the US Government doesn't care why should you?

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by nixy » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:58 am

The problem with being in debt repayment forever is that eventually it ends, you get the debt forgiven, but you have to pay taxes on the amount forgiven as income. If you’ve been paying the minimum the total may be a lot. And a lot of people really don’t want to be paying student loans for 20 years. But there is definitely a school of thought that this is fine and it’s better to save up for the tax bomb rather than pay large amounts sooner. It’s very much a personal preference thing.

I agree that he’s likely not locked in to $50k/year forever, but I’m also not convinced that after 10 years everyone is easily making 6 figures. That can happen, but it might not. It’s going to depend on specific career paths. I’d also like to know if people have posted that from personal experience or whether they’re projecting based on DOL stats and whatnot.

Although I entirely agree that tomtownsend going through law school could be juicy entertainment.

Fireworks2016

Bronze
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Fireworks2016 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:14 am

nixy wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:58 am
The problem with being in debt repayment forever is that eventually it ends, you get the debt forgiven, but you have to pay taxes on the amount forgiven as income.
I've already repaid my loans so I haven't followed closely, but didn't Congress just fix the "tax bomb" with the latest COVID bill?

Rule23andMe

New
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:28 am

Re: Ohio Schools

Post by Rule23andMe » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:56 am

Fireworks2016 wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:14 am
nixy wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:58 am
The problem with being in debt repayment forever is that eventually it ends, you get the debt forgiven, but you have to pay taxes on the amount forgiven as income.
I've already repaid my loans so I haven't followed closely, but didn't Congress just fix the "tax bomb" with the latest COVID bill?
Yes, but it's set to end in 2025, so it's presumably meant for an impending mass forgiveness event. Could be renewed of course, but probably not wise to count on it.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”