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Hi! I am currently applying to law school for Fall 2021 and have run into a C&F issue. My spring semester of junior year (Spring 2019) I was caught leaving a testing software to access notes while taking an exam (i.e. cheating). It was a horrible lapse in judgement, something I never did before or again, and an incident that I deeply regret.

The results of the incident are how I should go about disclosing them are a little more complicated. The professor did not report the incident to the university/academic honesty board. The only penalty was receiving a zero on the exam, but, per his syllabus, your lowest exam grade is dropped. So my 0 was dropped and I ended up getting an A- in the class with no further issues.

The main opinion seems to be to err on the side of disclosure, but what do you think? I have no problem disclosing it, but have received conflicting advice. The only evidence that I know of is the email the professor sent me and my reply to him accepting his terms. I requested a copy of my transcript and there was nothing on that.

Despite all of that, I still believe I will disclose the incident. I understand that the bar values candor above all and want to get this event off my chest and not have to carry it around for three years at law school. So I guess my main question is is how damning would this offense be to law school admission committees? Would it totally knock me out of the running? Thank you.

My stats are gpa: 3.6 lsat: 165. I plan on applying to mostly regional schools that are ranked from 20-60ish.

I generally favor disclosure, but in this case, it sounds like it really depends on the C&F question phrasing on each application. Most schools ask about academic discipline/sanctions. Arguably, you could say that being given a failing grade by a professor counts as "academic discipline," but if the question only calls for you to disclose things where you were officially disciplined by the university (i.e. there's a record of it somewhere), then you probably don't need to.

If you want to err on the side of disclosure, there's nothing wrong with that. But this is one of the rare instances where you may not need to disclose to every school, depending on how they phrase their C&F questions.

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:18 pm

I generally favor disclosure, but in this case, it sounds like it really depends on the C&F question phrasing on each application. Most schools ask about academic discipline/sanctions. Arguably, you could say that being given a failing grade by a professor counts as "academic discipline," but if the question only calls for you to disclose things where you were officially disciplined by the university (i.e. there's a record of it somewhere), then you probably don't need to.

If you want to err on the side of disclosure, there's nothing wrong with that. But this is one of the rare instances where you may not need to disclose to every school, depending on how they phrase their C&F questions.

Thank you for the reply. I plan to reach out to my undergrad's prelaw advisor and get her opinion on this too because, like you said, it seems like a grey area for some schools. Were I to disclose, how damning do you think it would it be for my chances? Would the fact that I cooperated immediately and received a relatively small punishment help me out? Or is the act too damning in and of itself? I understand what I did reflects very poorly on me, but I am just trying to get a better understanding of my chances.

priorgift wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:55 pm

I plan to reach out to my undergrad's prelaw advisor and get her opinion on this too

Don't do this. Prelaw advisors are notoriously uninformed about the law school admissions process and have no understanding of how C&F review plays out in the long-term. They generally are not lawyers, have never applied to law school, and treat the whole process as if you were applying to undergrad a second time. Your advisor may be an exception, but I highly doubt it.

If you're truly paranoid, seek help from a C&F attorney or an independent admissions consultant, but it's highly unlikely that this single incident would be enough to torpedo your admissions chances.

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:56 am

priorgift wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:55 pm

I plan to reach out to my undergrad's prelaw advisor and get her opinion on this too

Don't do this. Prelaw advisors are notoriously uninformed about the law school admissions process and have no understanding of how C&F review plays out in the long-term. They generally are not lawyers, have never applied to law school, and treat the whole process as if you were applying to undergrad a second time. Your advisor may be an exception, but I highly doubt it.

If you're truly paranoid, seek help from a C&F attorney or an independent admissions consultant, but it's highly unlikely that this single incident would be enough to torpedo your admissions chances.

Thank you for the advice. I just wrote a draft of my addendum, do you think something like this is acceptable?

In February of 2019, during my junior year of college, I received a warning for academic misconduct in my economics class.
During an exam, I left the testing software and accessed notes on my computer. The following day, my professor emailed me and told me the software noted that I had left the testing program. I immediately replied to his email and admitted to cheating. Because it was my first offense, my professor decided not to report my incident to the academic honesty board. I ended up receiving a grade of 0 for the exam.
There is no excuse for my actions. My decision to cheat was a horrible judgement call and something I had never done before nor will do in the future. I am very thankful for my professor for allowing me to repent for my actions and grow from the incident. I ended the course with a grade of A-.

priorgift wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:55 pm

cavalier1138 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:18 pm

I generally favor disclosure, but in this case, it sounds like it really depends on the C&F question phrasing on each application. Most schools ask about academic discipline/sanctions. Arguably, you could say that being given a failing grade by a professor counts as "academic discipline," but if the question only calls for you to disclose things where you were officially disciplined by the university (i.e. there's a record of it somewhere), then you probably don't need to.

If you want to err on the side of disclosure, there's nothing wrong with that. But this is one of the rare instances where you may not need to disclose to every school, depending on how they phrase their C&F questions.

Thank you for the reply. I plan to reach out to my undergrad's prelaw advisor and get her opinion on this too because, like you said, it seems like a grey area for some schools. Were I to disclose, how damning do you think it would it be for my chances? Would the fact that I cooperated immediately and received a relatively small punishment help me out? Or is the act too damning in and of itself? I understand what I did reflects very poorly on me, but I am just trying to get a better understanding of my chances.

Yeah, don't do this.

This won't be as damning as you think it will. Unfortunately, I committed plagiarism in college. It never ended up on my transcript because I decided to re-do the paper. However, I still disclosed, and my application cycle was not affected. Indeed, my bar admission was not affected as well.

Someone might argue that “subjected to disciplinary action” can include a 0 on the test but the fact you could drop it suggests it had no result. Of course, you can argue they dropped that grade and not another test. The argument may turn on how you would have done in this test if you didn’t get a 0 but no one knows. This seems to fall into a gray area in most applications. Personally, I don’t think it’s discipline if nothing was reported to a dean or disciplinarian but I’m not sure if I would go through the bar banking on my read of something 5 years ago. It’s a tough question. I’d ask a c&f lawyer in the state you’re seeking admission in. Realistically, this would probably be impossible to turn up in a c&f investigation. No one is going through your college exam results. That’s not a reason not to disclose but here it seems 95 percent likely you don’t need to anyway.

I think your addendum is fine if you want to submit one. You could maybe tone down the mea culpa a bit (I'm thinking that you don't need to do the "no excuse for my actions line"), but it's concise and gets the point across.

I disagree with any advice that suggests that this falls in a "grey area".

It is clear that you cheated, got caught, and were penalized. The fact that the penalty did you no harm does not excuse or extinguish your unethical behavior.

Also, the more people to whom you reveal this incident, the more likely it will appear somehow in your law school application such as in a written recommendation or evaluation.

Just disclose.

Could disclosure affect your chance for admission to any particular law school ? Yes, but that is up to each law school to which you apply to decide.

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:58 pm

I disagree with any advice that suggests that this falls in a "grey area".

It is clear that you cheated, got caught, and were penalized. The fact that the penalty did you no harm does not excuse or extinguish your unethical behavior.

The fact that it was punished entirely on an ad hoc basis by a professor who never reported it to the OP's school does quite a bit to make it non-responsive to most C&F questions, though. Yes, it's generally best to err on the side of disclosure, but there's no reason to disclose something that falls entirely outside the call of a C&F question.

I do not recommend "playing games" with state bar c&f. Always disclose.

Did you ever get into law school?