South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions Forum

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:00 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:25 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:32 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:23 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:19 pm
Define low ranked. Geez you posters have some tough standards lol
It's as low as you can get in the USNWR rankings without not being ranked at all. Not sure how that's a "tough standard" for what constitutes a low-ranked school.
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:20 pm
You don’t need the jd, it def helps though and you may not get the corporate job without it
Name a specific corporate job (not in-house counsel) that you could not get without a JD.
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:20 pm
No one from a school become a professor? Pretty sweeping claim. Would hate for another poster here to prove you wrong with an example
I'd be eager to see it. There are always exceptions, but it's extremely rare for a T4 grad to become a law professor.
Lol how many are unranked? Clearly this isn’t bottom of barrel like your making it to be and we have ALUMS here countering all your points with details
So you're saying STCL doesn't qualify as low-ranked because it only falls between 140-196, and not entirely off the rankings scale? Solid point.

And "I know a guy who's happy with his job" doesn't counter the hard numbers STCL is required to make public. There are successful alums from every law school in the country; that doesn't mean every law school guarantees success.
Define success and dont say big law. Harvard doesn’t gurantee success either. Not everyone needs to take your oath

AJordan

Silver
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:48 am

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by AJordan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:23 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:00 pm

Define success and dont say big law. Harvard doesn’t gurantee success either. Not everyone needs to take your oath
The metric for success reported, and thus referred to in this thread, is long-term, full-time, bar-passage-required employment within 9 months of graduation. In other words, you shouldn't go to law school unless you want to be an attorney, so your success should be judged on actually becoming an attorney after graduation.

STCL typically fluctuates between 50% and 60% of their graduates finding success. Last year they reported unusually strong numbers at 66%. That's a good thing! Still, finding an attorney job from median here looks no better than a coin flip, and could be worse depending on how COVID affects the marketplace for their average applicant.

I've met some impressive folks from South Texas. But we're assuming median graduates here. It's folly to assume otherwise.

obamalaw

New
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:08 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by obamalaw » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:26 pm

I hope you get admitted. If you want to go STCL, go.

Remember, Texas is huge. Four large cities (Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston) and lots of cities about 100,000-500,000 (Amarillo, El Paso, Lubbock, Tyler, McAllen, Corpus Christi, etc.)

Many people who go to schools like STCL, TTU, or STMU end up in these smaller towns. If you want to work at a small firm in one of those towns, that is great. STCL is perfect for you. A very select few end up at Houston big law, but it is doable.

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:54 pm

obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:26 pm
I hope you get admitted. If you want to go STCL, go.

Remember, Texas is huge. Four large cities (Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston) and lots of cities about 100,000-500,000 (Amarillo, El Paso, Lubbock, Tyler, McAllen, Corpus Christi, etc.)

Many people who go to schools like STCL, TTU, or STMU end up in these smaller towns. If you want to work at a small firm in one of those towns, that is great. STCL is perfect for you. A very select few end up at Houston big law, but it is doable.
I rest my case

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:55 pm

AJordan wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:23 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:00 pm

Define success and dont say big law. Harvard doesn’t gurantee success either. Not everyone needs to take your oath
The metric for success reported, and thus referred to in this thread, is long-term, full-time, bar-passage-required employment within 9 months of graduation. In other words, you shouldn't go to law school unless you want to be an attorney, so your success should be judged on actually becoming an attorney after graduation.

STCL typically fluctuates between 50% and 60% of their graduates finding success. Last year they reported unusually strong numbers at 66%. That's a good thing! Still, finding an attorney job from median here looks no better than a coin flip, and could be worse depending on how COVID affects the marketplace for their average applicant.

I've met some impressive folks from South Texas. But we're assuming median graduates here. It's folly to assume otherwise.
Ok. Give me an acceptable % than

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:04 pm

The percentage depends on 1) what kind of job you want 2) what percentage of grads of the school go into that job 3) how much you have to pay to attend the school and 4) whether your likely salary will allow you to pay your debt. STCL for free or a very low price for someone who wants to work in a small firm in a small town may be fine. STCL at sticker or a small discount for someone who wants NYC biglaw is a very bad idea.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:10 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:00 pm
Define success and dont say big law. Harvard doesn’t gurantee success either. Not everyone needs to take your oath
I'm not offering anyone the chance to take an oath...

But ok, I'll define "success" in this context: Employment as a lawyer with a salary that allows the individual to pay down the debt they incurred going to law school (taking PSLF into account for those who go into public service).

And you're quite right that Harvard can't guarantee success. No school can 100% guarantee anything. But statistically, a Harvard graduate is much more likely to be successful (using this metric) than a STCL graduate.

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:52 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:10 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:00 pm
Define success and dont say big law. Harvard doesn’t gurantee success either. Not everyone needs to take your oath
I'm not offering anyone the chance to take an oath...

But ok, I'll define "success" in this context: Employment as a lawyer with a salary that allows the individual to pay down the debt they incurred going to law school (taking PSLF into account for those who go into public service).

And you're quite right that Harvard can't guarantee success. No school can 100% guarantee anything. But statistically, a Harvard graduate is much more likely to be successful (using this metric) than a STCL graduate.
Not exactly unobtainable, most get this.

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:07 pm

Your evidence for “most”?

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:18 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:07 pm
Your evidence for “most”?
uhhhhhhh the alum who provided way more info on this and tx economy in general than u.............

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 988
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by Wild Card » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:36 pm

guys, pls no bully. some people don't want or need jobs. they just want to be able to call themselves juris doctors with juris doctorates.

ignorantfoot96

New
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:14 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by ignorantfoot96 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:34 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:18 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:07 pm
Your evidence for “most”?
uhhhhhhh the alum who provided way more info on this and tx economy in general than u.............
Ah yes one anecdotal story and information describing that there are in fact cities in Texas. I'm sorry, but yikes dude on the logic ...

Nixy and Cav are giving legit statistics and numbers concerning the employment prospects. I agree with you that big law does not need to be a metric for success, but entering a law school with an almost 40% chance of not being able to PRACTICE LAW is a bad school. Objectively it is a bad school.

Can one be successful leaving South Texas? Yes, I am sure there are people who graduate here in the top percentile of their class who go on to have very rewarding legal careers. However, when there is a curve and a statistical percentage of people must fall beneath a certain number, I would not be willing to bet my entire future career (not to mention taking out loans) on such an OBJECTIVELY low chance to practice law. You listening to one anecdotal story or refusing to look at actual data is just showing why the LSAT exists, to test logic/reasoning as a gateway to certain law schools.

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:37 pm

ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:34 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:18 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:07 pm
Your evidence for “most”?
uhhhhhhh the alum who provided way more info on this and tx economy in general than u.............
Ah yes one anecdotal story and information describing that there are in fact cities in Texas. I'm sorry, but yikes dude on the logic ...

Nixy and Cav are giving legit statistics and numbers concerning the employment prospects. I agree with you that big law does not need to be a metric for success, but entering a law school with an almost 40% chance of not being able to PRACTICE LAW is a bad school. Objectively it is a bad school.

Can one be successful leaving South Texas? Yes, I am sure there are people who graduate here in the top percentile of their class who go on to have very rewarding legal careers. However, when there is a curve and a statistical percentage of people must fall beneath a certain number, I would not be willing to bet my entire future career (not to mention taking out loans) on such an OBJECTIVELY low chance to practice law. You listening to one anecdotal story or refusing to look at actual data is just showing why the LSAT exists, to test logic/reasoning as a gateway to certain law schools.
It is really, really disrespectful to discredit someone’s lived experience, especially coming from a law school that is more diverse than most. V condesending

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


dyemond

Bronze
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:42 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by dyemond » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:44 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:37 pm
ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:34 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:18 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:07 pm
Your evidence for “most”?
uhhhhhhh the alum who provided way more info on this and tx economy in general than u.............
Ah yes one anecdotal story and information describing that there are in fact cities in Texas. I'm sorry, but yikes dude on the logic ...

Nixy and Cav are giving legit statistics and numbers concerning the employment prospects. I agree with you that big law does not need to be a metric for success, but entering a law school with an almost 40% chance of not being able to PRACTICE LAW is a bad school. Objectively it is a bad school.

Can one be successful leaving South Texas? Yes, I am sure there are people who graduate here in the top percentile of their class who go on to have very rewarding legal careers. However, when there is a curve and a statistical percentage of people must fall beneath a certain number, I would not be willing to bet my entire future career (not to mention taking out loans) on such an OBJECTIVELY low chance to practice law. You listening to one anecdotal story or refusing to look at actual data is just showing why the LSAT exists, to test logic/reasoning as a gateway to certain law schools.
It is really, really disrespectful to discredit someone’s lived experience, especially coming from a law school that is more diverse than most. V condesending
You're a college senior, why are you so invested in defending the employment outcomes of STCL (and, apparently, peer schools in OH)?

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:57 pm

dyemond wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:44 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:37 pm
ignorantfoot96 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:34 pm
tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:18 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:07 pm
Your evidence for “most”?
uhhhhhhh the alum who provided way more info on this and tx economy in general than u.............
Ah yes one anecdotal story and information describing that there are in fact cities in Texas. I'm sorry, but yikes dude on the logic ...

Nixy and Cav are giving legit statistics and numbers concerning the employment prospects. I agree with you that big law does not need to be a metric for success, but entering a law school with an almost 40% chance of not being able to PRACTICE LAW is a bad school. Objectively it is a bad school.

Can one be successful leaving South Texas? Yes, I am sure there are people who graduate here in the top percentile of their class who go on to have very rewarding legal careers. However, when there is a curve and a statistical percentage of people must fall beneath a certain number, I would not be willing to bet my entire future career (not to mention taking out loans) on such an OBJECTIVELY low chance to practice law. You listening to one anecdotal story or refusing to look at actual data is just showing why the LSAT exists, to test logic/reasoning as a gateway to certain law schools.
It is really, really disrespectful to discredit someone’s lived experience, especially coming from a law school that is more diverse than most. V condesending
You're a college senior, why are you so invested in defending the employment outcomes of STCL (and, apparently, peer schools in OH)?
They attacked my “peer school” in Ohio so I defended it. Here? Too much free time and I dont like to see bullying

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:49 pm

Pointing out facts isn't bullying.

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:52 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:49 pm
Pointing out facts isn't bullying.
Hmmmmm don’t think you’ve addressed the alums points yet good Sir!

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


obamalaw

New
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:08 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by obamalaw » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:54 pm

Keep in a mind a town of 100,000- 500,000 will probably pay $65,000- $70,000 starting out, if you are lucky. STCL costs about $60,000/year. For three years that's about $180,000 to $200,000.

Say you make $70,000. An individual can live off of $50,000 a year in these low cost of living towns. With this math of $20,000 /year ($1,666/month), it It will take you about ten years to pay off this debt.

Can you afford to make $50,000/year for ten years? Hopefully you will make more money as your career progresses and it will not take that long. I am trying to be transparent with you.

tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:01 pm

obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:54 pm
Keep in a mind a town of 100,000- 500,000 will probably pay $65,000- $70,000 starting out, if you are lucky. STCL costs about $60,000/year. For three years that's about $180,000 to $200,000.

Say you make $70,000. An individual can live off of $50,000 a year in these low cost of living towns. With this math of $20,000 /year ($1,666/month), it It will take you about ten years to pay off this debt.

Can you afford to make $50,000/year for ten years? Hopefully you will make more money as your career progresses and it will not take that long. I am trying to be transparent with you.
Great input. The kind of info the others cannot disclaim

User avatar
nealric

Moderator
Posts: 4273
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by nealric » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:01 pm

obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:54 pm
Keep in a mind a town of 100,000- 500,000 will probably pay $65,000- $70,000 starting out, if you are lucky. STCL costs about $60,000/year. For three years that's about $180,000 to $200,000.

Say you make $70,000. An individual can live off of $50,000 a year in these low cost of living towns. With this math of $20,000 /year ($1,666/month), it It will take you about ten years to pay off this debt.

Can you afford to make $50,000/year for ten years? Hopefully you will make more money as your career progresses and it will not take that long. I am trying to be transparent with you.
$70k for a baby lawyer in a small town is an extremely generous assumption. Any you are assuming this hypothetical grad gets a job in the first place. At least 1/3 don’t.

obamalaw

New
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:08 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by obamalaw » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:13 pm

nealric wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:01 pm
obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:54 pm
Keep in a mind a town of 100,000- 500,000 will probably pay $65,000- $70,000 starting out, if you are lucky. STCL costs about $60,000/year. For three years that's about $180,000 to $200,000.

Say you make $70,000. An individual can live off of $50,000 a year in these low cost of living towns. With this math of $20,000 /year ($1,666/month), it It will take you about ten years to pay off this debt.

Can you afford to make $50,000/year for ten years? Hopefully you will make more money as your career progresses and it will not take that long. I am trying to be transparent with you.
$70k for a baby lawyer in a small town is an extremely generous assumption. Any you are assuming this hypothetical grad gets a job in the first place. At least 1/3 don’t.
I am not trying to argue about jobs, but costs and a reasonable time line of paying debt off.

If you do not get a legal job, go work at Starbucks or the GAP until you find one. Put on a suit and stand outside the courthouse. Network like hell. Meet five new lawyers in Houston a month. Networking is just as, if not more, important than school and grades.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


tomtownsend

New
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by tomtownsend » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:15 pm

obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:13 pm
nealric wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:01 pm
obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:54 pm
Keep in a mind a town of 100,000- 500,000 will probably pay $65,000- $70,000 starting out, if you are lucky. STCL costs about $60,000/year. For three years that's about $180,000 to $200,000.

Say you make $70,000. An individual can live off of $50,000 a year in these low cost of living towns. With this math of $20,000 /year ($1,666/month), it It will take you about ten years to pay off this debt.

Can you afford to make $50,000/year for ten years? Hopefully you will make more money as your career progresses and it will not take that long. I am trying to be transparent with you.
$70k for a baby lawyer in a small town is an extremely generous assumption. Any you are assuming this hypothetical grad gets a job in the first place. At least 1/3 don’t.
I am not trying to argue about jobs, but costs and a reasonable time line of paying debt off.

If you do not get a legal job, go work at Starbucks or the GAP until you find one. Put on a suit and stand outside the courthouse. Network like hell. Meet five new lawyers in Houston a month. Networking is just as, if not more, important than school and grades.
Yep pound that pavement

Amazing how sheltered some people are after handed jobs at prefftiguous schools

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by nixy » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:50 pm

tomtownsend wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:52 pm
nixy wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:49 pm
Pointing out facts isn't bullying.
Hmmmmm don’t think you’ve addressed the alums points yet good Sir!
One alum who said that "most everyone" they knew was doing great? What point is that? I'm glad they had a good outcome - and everyone has acknowledged that people *can* have a good outcome from STCL - but that's not statistical evidence. People in law school who are unhappy with their outcomes don't tend to advertise it to the ones who are; no one knows the outcomes (and debt load) for everyone in their graduating class or how they all actually feel about the school. Statistically, 30% of the school did not get the job they went to that school to get (and that's the most recent year's stats; it previous years it was less).

Of course networking is important (I wouldn't say it's more important than school or grades under all circumstances, but especially at lower ranked schools, and especially for people without tip top grades at those schools, networking is absolutely important). Are you saying then that 30%-ish of STCL grads just don't want to network?
obamalaw wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:54 pm
Keep in a mind a town of 100,000- 500,000 will probably pay $65,000- $70,000 starting out, if you are lucky. STCL costs about $60,000/year. For three years that's about $180,000 to $200,000.

Say you make $70,000. An individual can live off of $50,000 a year in these low cost of living towns. With this math of $20,000 /year ($1,666/month), it It will take you about ten years to pay off this debt.

Can you afford to make $50,000/year for ten years? Hopefully you will make more money as your career progresses and it will not take that long. I am trying to be transparent with you.
I appreciate that you (obamalaw) are trying to be realistic about this and I don't think you're necessarily encouraging tomtownsend, but I want him to realize that this math assumes:
1) someone gets a job
2) that job pays $65-70k (please note "if you are lucky") (there are starting lawyer salaries in my state in the $40-50k range, in much more expensive towns than small Texas ones)
3) someone with a $65-70k salary isn't having any taxes, social security, or healthcare costs taken out of their pay (if your salary is $70k and you live on $50k, you don't actually have $20k left to pay your student loans), and
4) student loan debt doesn't carry interest, which it does, so it continues to grow.

obamalaw

New
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:08 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by obamalaw » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:14 pm

nixy- I never thought of SS, taxes, etc. in my plan. I did $60k @ 3 years = $180k plus $20k in interest and other expenses. You are right.

CanadianWolf

Diamond
Posts: 11413
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: South Texas College of Law Fall 2020 Admissions

Post by CanadianWolf » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:40 pm

Usually I do not recommend that one attend a non-top tier law school unless on a full tuition scholarship.

However, I do know of only 3 South Texas College of Law graduates and all 3 are doing quite well in Wash DC after earning tax llm degrees from Georgetown Law. (Weird coincidence that I ran across this thread as I found all 3 resumes today while researching tax departments in Wash DC.)

P.S. I am not suggesting that there is any pipeline from South Texas College of Law to Georgetown tax llm to Wash DC, just sharing what I came across today.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”