Villanova, Temple, & Penn Forum

[Tmcg023]

Anyone know if I have a good chance at a full ride from Villanova and/or Temple with a 4.0 & 161? Also, is there a good chance that I would be WL’d at Penn?

[The Lsat Airbender]

mylsn suggests that yeah, you're solidly in the waitlist zone for Penn, and it looks like more of a $80-90k scholarship from Temple or 'Nova. That's a pretty good deal at Temple (assuming PA residency) but you would nonetheless be well-served to improve your LSAT score if at all possible.

https://mylsn.info/df1aiz/

[Tmcg023]

mylsn suggests that yeah, you're solidly in the waitlist zone for Penn, and it looks like more of a $80-90k scholarship from Temple or 'Nova. That's a pretty good deal at Temple (assuming PA residency) but you would nonetheless be well-served to improve your LSAT score if at all possible.

https://mylsn.info/df1aiz/

Thanks for the prompt response & insight. I am considering a retake, but I have two more additional questions. If waitlisted, then getting an eventual acceptance at Penn would be based mostly on luck (for lack of a better term) since they don’t rank their waitlist applicants correct? Also, I am a PA resident just to clarify & would you place Temple above Nova or should they be considered fairly comparable all things considered?

[The Lsat Airbender]

Temple and Villanova have a lot of cultural differences, from what I hear, but their graduates get pretty comparable outcomes. Both are fine schools if you can get the cost down to a reasonable amount (i.e., don't take out $100k or more in loans) want to stay in Pennsylvania. Temple being substantially cheaper puts it ahead, IMO, but if Nova offers you enough scholarship money to close the gap, and you'd rather be there for 3 years, go for it.

Penn might not actually rank their waitlist, but they still have preferences, and I'm confident that they tend to make phone calls to the 167/4.0 members of the waitlist before the 161/4.0 people. A waitlist isn't doing its job if you might plausibly need to admit everyone on it.

[Tmcg023]

Yeah I definitely hear what you’re saying. I have family legacies at both Temple & Nova Law (fwiw, probably not much) & I certainly wouldn’t go to either if I had to take out any loans. Money isn’t really an issue, but I’m somewhat debt averse. Since I was an accounting major, I plan to practice tax law or something similar (SALT, etc.) at a Big 4 accounting firm or (hopefully) BL in Philly after graduating. Although this is a broad question, would you say that taking on partial debt at Penn is the best option if I had the choice of attending any of the three?

[The Lsat Airbender]

Personally I draw a red line for debt over $150k or so, no matter where you go, but Penn is a good enough school (i.e., gives you a solid shot at biglaw, including in Philly thanks to your ties) that it would be worth paying a lot of money for. Keep in mind that, with a good enough LSAT, you could be looking at a full ride at Penn or another T14. Don't let that 4.0 go to waste, especially if you want biglaw.

[seeking_law]

Look at the ABA 509 reports for Villanova, Temple and Penn. I think you are a lock for a full ride at Villanova with your current numbers (34% of law students attending Villanova are on a full ride). Temple you are probably looking at between a 75% (law faculty scholarship) to full ride (Beasley). Bumping that LSAT up above a 163 gets you above Penn's 25 percentile and probably increases your chances there significantly. If you plan on applying next cycle, I would apply very broadly in the T-14. This will be the first application cycle in the wake of Covid-19 and nobody really knows what that will look like. I'm sure a fair number of applicants will wait a year and that could lead to your 4.0 being very valuable to a top school if those end up being more scarce this upcoming cycle.

[Tmcg023]

Personally I draw a red line for debt over $150k or so, no matter where you go, but Penn is a good enough school (i.e., gives you a solid shot at biglaw, including in Philly thanks to your ties) that it would be worth paying a lot of money for. Keep in mind that, with a good enough LSAT, you could be looking at a full ride at Penn or another T14. Don't let that 4.0 go to waste, especially if you want biglaw.

Yeah, I definitely agree a line has to be drawn somewhere regarding front-loading debt in order to have the opportunity to attend a more prestigious institution. Thanks for the advice & I will definitely consider a retake in the coming weeks after weighing my options.

[Tmcg023]

Look at the ABA 509 reports for Villanova, Temple and Penn. I think you are a lock for a full ride at Villanova with your current numbers (34% of law students attending Villanova are on a full ride). Temple you are probably looking at between a 75% (law faculty scholarship) to full ride (Beasley). Bumping that LSAT up above a 163 gets you above Penn's 25 percentile and probably increases your chances there significantly. If you plan on applying next cycle, I would apply very broadly in the T-14. This will be the first application cycle in the wake of Covid-19 and nobody really knows what that will look like. I'm sure a fair number of applicants will wait a year and that could lead to your 4.0 being very valuable to a top school if those end up being more scarce this upcoming cycle.

Thanks for your take on the matter, and I definitely think you're spot on with your assumptions/predictions. If I do apply this cycle (which I most likely will), are there any other T-14s besides Penn that you would suggest applying to? I generally hear that UVA or UC Berkeley are more friendly toward reverse splitters.