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Hi all! Wanted to ask advice as a recent Columbia grad (class of 2019) aiming to apply ED to Columbia Law in the fall. I graduated Phi Beta Kappa, Magna Cum Laude with a 3.9 GPA. Been working at a major broadcast company since graduation. Haven't taken LSAT yet but planning to do so late summer/early fall (depending on when social distancing is over...)

Is there anyone here who knows how CLS views Columbia undergrads? I've heard rumors from friends that as long as I get a decent LSAT score I should be in, but I don't know how true that is and don't want to overestimate my chances. I'd like to stay in the city for law school, ideally.

Thanks everyone!

1. The admissions process is 95% determined by your LSAT/GPA. Once you have your LSAT score, you'll be able to make a much more educated guess as to your admissions chances anywhere.

2. Any boost you get from going to Columbia as an undergrad will be minimal.

3. Don't apply ED to Columbia (or anywhere that isn't offering a full scholarship with ED acceptance).

cavalier1138 wrote:1. The admissions process is 95% determined by your LSAT/GPA. Once you have your LSAT score, you'll be able to make a much more educated guess as to your admissions chances anywhere.

2. Any boost you get from going to Columbia as an undergrad will be minimal.

3. Don't apply ED to Columbia (or anywhere that isn't offering a full scholarship with ED acceptance).

Thanks so much for your reply! Given that my GPA is pretty strong, as long as I get an LSAT above 170 would you say that my chances would be good?

Thanks for the info re ED - what is the scholarship situation like at Columbia?

Appreciate your help!

toisondor wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:1. The admissions process is 95% determined by your LSAT/GPA. Once you have your LSAT score, you'll be able to make a much more educated guess as to your admissions chances anywhere.

2. Any boost you get from going to Columbia as an undergrad will be minimal.

3. Don't apply ED to Columbia (or anywhere that isn't offering a full scholarship with ED acceptance).

Thanks so much for your reply! Given that my GPA is pretty strong, as long as I get an LSAT above 170 would you say that my chances would be good?

Thanks for the info re ED - what is the scholarship situation like at Columbia?

Appreciate your help!

Yes, if you have a 170+, you have a decent chance at admission across the T13 from CCN down. You should not ED Columbia under any circumstances, because they do not offer a guaranteed scholarship for ED admissions.

If you can break into the 170s (which is a big if), you will be competitive for substantial scholarships across the T13. Don't lock yourself into one school because you liked going to undergrad there; going to Columbia at sticker over (for example) UVA for free would be a horrible decision.

Law school is also completely different from college - this is the case at any school - so however much you enjoyed your experience at Columbia College, don't fixate on CLS for that reason. You wouldn't be getting three more years of the CC experience.

Law schools in general are pretty separate from the undergraduate community. This is the case for almost all professional schools (can't think of an exception, really) and many/most graduate programs. (Grad programs are a bit more integrated because many/most grad students TA undergrad courses at some point, but even then, it absolutely doesn't feel like being in college again. Law students don't even get to TA undergrads.)

Think back to your own experience at Columbia College - how much social mixing was there between your friend group and Columbia Law students? And if you say "a lot!", think about whether that was at all typical for other undergrads, or if your friend group was pretty unique in seeking out law students to hang out with.

QContinuum wrote:Law school is also completely different from college - this is the case at any school - so however much you enjoyed your experience at Columbia College, don't fixate on CLS for that reason. You wouldn't be getting three more years of the CC experience.

Law schools in general are pretty separate from the undergraduate community. This is the case for almost all professional schools (can't think of an exception, really) and many/most graduate programs. (Grad programs are a bit more integrated because many/most grad students TA undergrad courses at some point, but even then, it absolutely doesn't feel like being in college again. Law students don't even get to TA undergrads.)

Think back to your own experience at Columbia College - how much social mixing was there between your friend group and Columbia Law students? And if you say "a lot!", think about whether that was at all typical for other undergrads, or if your friend group was pretty unique in seeking out law students to hang out with.

Hey, thanks for your reply. I'm not fixating on CLS because I'm looking for 3 more years of CC - to be honest my undergrad experience was great but not so spectacular that I'm still thinking about it. It's more that I want to stay in the city, so I feel like that pretty much gives me two options: Columbia and NYU.

Maybe I'm too catty, but I always cringe a little at double-[School] grads who are, like, REALLY into their school. Branch out a little, lol. Unlatch from the teat.

It's creepiest with the double-Harvard and double-Chicago people because they're always center-right "I have accessed the Platonic truths of society" types. Yalies kind of have an excuse in that they wanted to go to the best law school possible so I let that slide.

The Lsat Airbender wrote:Maybe I'm too catty, but I always cringe a little at double-[School] grads who are, like, REALLY into their school. Branch out a little, lol. Unlatch from the teat.

It's creepiest with the double-Harvard and double-Chicago people because they're always center-right "I have accessed the Platonic truths of society" types. Yalies kind of have an excuse in that they wanted to go to the best law school possible so I let that slide.

um, ok?

toisondor wrote:

The Lsat Airbender wrote:Maybe I'm too catty, but I always cringe a little at double-[School] grads who are, like, REALLY into their school. Branch out a little, lol. Unlatch from the teat.

It's creepiest with the double-Harvard and double-Chicago people because they're always center-right "I have accessed the Platonic truths of society" types. Yalies kind of have an excuse in that they wanted to go to the best law school possible so I let that slide.

um, ok?

Don't worry about it OP. LSA normally has pretty good takes. This is not one of them. Plenty of acceptable reasons to be a double-[school] person: geography, your school placing well/having a high ranking in [insert grad program], a good undergrad experience there/familiarity, etc.

As others have said, do not ED to Columbia. You could end up screwing yourself out of some good scholarship money. Take the LSAT, get a 170+, and then blanket the T13. That way, if you don't get into Columbia/NYU, you'll hopefully have some great scholarships elsewhere, and all the T13 schools will have 0 problem getting you back to NY (easiest market to break into by far). If you get into Columbia/NYU, your other T13 offers will give you bargaining chips to negotiate up your scholarship at Columbia/NYU. EDing to Columbia and not blanketing the T13 is leaving a lot of money on the table. I would not recommend.

I am going to disagree with the others here and say that there is a minor but not unnoticeable boost to being a Columbia College undergrad. To a degree I haven't seen at peer schools, Columbia really does like to keep it in the family; it's bad for donations back to the institution as a whole if a CC undergrad who is reasonably in range is denied at the law school. There is a palpable boost.

The law school also has a tendency to put CC graduates on Reserve even when they have no reasonable chance of admission in order to make it a soft denial (e.g., with a 155 LSAT), with some unique and very kind language in the letter about giving every consideration to that candidate as well. More generally, Columbia has a preference for Ivy League (and other very top undergraduates, like Stanford) to a noticeable degree. The double-Ivy branding is just good for placement at top law firms; it's what the clients want to see.

Other than the above, I echo everything in this thread.

Your career services office should keep data on this. It's called the LSAC Action Report.

This is from Johns Hopkins (as an example):

http://studentaffairs.jhu.edu/preprofad ... t.Law_.pdf

A few years ago, I came across Yale's stats, and YLS is pretty nice to Yale College grads: IIRC, average admitted student from Yale College had a 3.8/172, or something, which is slightly lower than their 3.9/173 medians.

Wild Card wrote:A few years ago, I came across Yale's stats, and YLS is pretty nice to Yale College grads: IIRC, average admitted student from Yale College had a 3.8/172, or something, which is slightly lower than their 3.9/173 medians.

Yeah, YLS is known to particularly favor Yale College grads. Yale College grads can get in with lower GPAs, lower LSATs and weaker softs than other applicants - not to say they aren't very strong applicants, because they are, but it's noticeable that if not for their degree being from Yale College, they wouldn't have gotten in with those stats & softs.

I don't think any other T13 offers a similarly large boost to "their" undergrads, though I don't doubt a slight preference exists around the margins (just as a slight preference exists around the margins for prestigious college pedigree generally - not a huge bump, but can make a difference around the margins).

QContinuum wrote:I don't think any other T13 offers a similarly large boost to "their" undergrads, though I don't doubt a slight preference exists around the margins (just as a slight preference exists around the margins for prestigious college pedigree generally - not a huge bump, but can make a difference around the margins).

UChicago probably, from what I've heard from people at both the college and the law school there. They have that ED scholarship thing to stop people from fleeing for other T6 which implies an institutional desire for more double alumni.