Top Law Schools

After flopping my first LSAT and studying another year to retake, I got a 177! Now my stats are 177/3.4.

I want to attend a T13 law school or Vanderbilt. I'm really happy I studied another year and retook the exam, since my numbers look competitive for most schools based on MyLSN.

Now I have a few stupid questions:

1. Does anybody have a complete law school guide? Broad question, I know.
I want a guide on what law school classes everyone takes, what OCI is, etc. I do not want to start learning this stuff after applying.

2. I will blanket the T20 (minus Y/S). Any other schools I should consider applying to with my stats? I want to start in biglaw then move in-house. My regional preference is: Secondary Market (south/midwest) --> Chicago --> DC --> NYC --> California.

3. I will live in China until going to law school. I do not receive mail. How do most universities notify students of their acceptances? I am really afraid of "snail mail" not reaching me.

4. Is it possible to become an online LSAT tutor? I live in China (I am American), but this exam is completely learnable, and I would love to work part-time as a tutor or teacher.

enz2103 wrote:After flopping my first LSAT and studying another year to retake, I got a 177! Now my stats are 177/3.4.

I want to attend a T13 law school or Vanderbilt. I'm really happy I studied another year and retook the exam, since my numbers look competitive for most schools based on MyLSN.

Now I have a few stupid questions:

1. Does anybody have a complete law school guide? Broad question, I know.
I want a guide on what law school classes everyone takes, what OCI is, etc. I do not want to start learning this stuff after applying.

2. I will blanket the T20 (minus Y/S). Any other schools I should consider applying to with my stats? I want to start in biglaw then move in-house. My regional preference is: Secondary Market (south/midwest) --> Chicago --> DC --> NYC --> California.

3. I will live in China until going to law school. I do not receive mail. How do most universities notify students of their acceptances? I am really afraid of "snail mail" not reaching me.

4. Is it possible to become an online LSAT tutor? I live in China (I am American), but this exam is completely learnable, and I would love to work part-time as a tutor or teacher.

1. There's plenty of guides here on TLS if you just do a little browsing/googling. Basically 90% of what I learned about the whole law school/legal job hunt process came from TLS. I will say that most schools will completely set up your 1L, although some may allow you to choose an elective in the Spring (Duke does not but I've heard other schools do). No need to worry about 2L classes at this point you're a long way off.

2. That's a decent strategy regarding applying with your numbers, but you might want to reconsider those geographic goals. Do you have any personal ties to these secondary markets/California/Chicago? If not getting biglaw there will be extremely difficult (Chicago may care less about ties but not super familiar with that market) while NY and DC are much less ties sensitive (although DC is very grade sensitive and is tough unless you're at the top of your class/at HYS/network your ass off 1L). If you don't have ties to these other markets you really need to be OK with going to NYC if biglaw is your goal.

Can't really comment on 3-4 but congrats on the excellent score!

Slippin' Jimmy wrote: 2. That's a decent strategy regarding applying with your numbers, but you might want to reconsider those geographic goals. Do you have any personal ties to these secondary markets/California/Chicago? If not getting biglaw there will be extremely difficult (Chicago may care less about ties but not super familiar with that market) while NY and DC are much less ties sensitive (although DC is very grade sensitive and is tough unless you're at the top of your class/at HYS/network your ass off 1L). If you don't have ties to these other markets you really need to be OK with going to NYC if biglaw is your goal.

Can't really comment on 3-4 but congrats on the excellent score!

Thank you!

I do not have regional ties, but I was under the impression that some schools like Northwestern and UT could help land biglaw in their respective regions even without ties. If that's a misconception, then I'll just gun for the T14 or Vanderbilt and aim for NYC. My regional preferences are secondary.

I don't think getting a bump for ties should be much of a consideration, or a consideration at all in the vast majority of scenarios. Think it only really makes sense for Chicago, and you knew you really wanted Chicago, and you had similar offers at similarly ranked schools (e.g., could make sense if you were between Virginia and NU, with equal COA, but really wanted Chicago even though you have no ties). But that is a pretty unicorn scenario.

NYC - not tie sensitive, they need bodies
DC - not tie sensitive, mostly grade/LR sensitive
San Fran - not tie sensitive, interest in tech/IP helps
Chicago - NU and Chicago definitely help non-midwesterners crack the market. Can't imagine it otherwise has much impact re other midwestern markets, but don't really have any real insight on that
Texas - UT helps, but would be hard pressed to encourage someone to take UT over a t13 for that reason (everything else being held equal)
Non-Texas South - not really any significant markets outside of Atlanta and Miami, and no t13 gives you ties to those. The other markets are very insular. Maybe, for instance, Virginia helps a bit with Richmond, but wouldn't be a reason to pick a school unless you otherwise had ties that made you want Richmond for sure (and would still be hard to get because there aren't many spots)
Boston - no idea, but would imagine boston firms are happy to take harvard grads (like pretty much everyone)
LA - no idea

ghostoftraynor wrote:I don't think getting a bump for ties should be much of a consideration, or a consideration at all in the vast majority of scenarios. Think it only really makes sense for Chicago, and you knew you really wanted Chicago, and you had similar offers at similarly ranked schools (e.g., could make sense if you were between Virginia and NU, with equal COA, but really wanted Chicago even though you have no ties). But that is a pretty unicorn scenario.

NYC - not tie sensitive, they need bodies
DC - not tie sensitive, mostly grade/LR sensitive
San Fran - not tie sensitive, interest in tech/IP helps
Chicago - NU and Chicago definitely help non-midwesterners crack the market. Can't imagine it otherwise has much impact re other midwestern markets, but don't really have any real insight on that
Texas - UT helps, but would be hard pressed to encourage someone to take UT over a t13 for that reason (everything else being held equal)
Non-Texas South - not really any significant markets outside of Atlanta and Miami, and no t13 gives you ties to those. The other markets are very insular. Maybe, for instance, Virginia helps a bit with Richmond, but wouldn't be a reason to pick a school unless you otherwise had ties that made you want Richmond for sure (and would still be hard to get because there aren't many spots)
Boston - no idea, but would imagine boston firms are happy to take harvard grads (like pretty much everyone)
LA - no idea

Are you sure this is true RE: San Fran? I always got the sense that it was fairly sensitive to ties unless you had IP qualifications + strong grades. Granted, I'm just going through the OCI process now and only targeting NY and DC so I could be wrong, but wouldn't want false information being put out there.

Anecdotally, all my friends who target the area got it, many without even general California ties, and non-IP/tech roles. Not saying San Fran is easy to land, but just didn't seem that concerned about ties in my limited experience. Which makes sense, San Fran is seen as a highly desirable location for a lot of people.

And to clarify, when I say "not tie sensitive" I don't mean you don't need a reason for "why" San Fran. It's just not like more insular markets where it can be very difficult to land unless you/spouse are from the area or you went to a school in the area. Sure, maybe Berkeley would given someone an edge over Northwestern in San Fran, but I doubt it's that significant. And, if you got into both schools with similar COA, and wanted to San Fran in the end, I'd think most people would just choose Berkeley because its already close to where they ultimately want to live as opposed to marginal OCI boost. Which goes to larger point of just don't see this being a factor someone should really consider outside of some weird facts. My list was mostly just for fun and an attempt to illustrate the larger point, definitely should not be taken for gospel truth.

congrats

Congrats OP.

Re: the San Francisco legal market, there will be some skepticism for a candidate who has never lived there. If someone is interested in SF, I would recommend at least spending 1L summer in the Bay Area.

Also, DO NOT refer to it as “San Fran.” San Francisco, SF, The City, or The Bay won’t make you sound like a tourist

Congrats. The decision to wait and retake will change your life. In 5 years you may not even remember it, but this was one of the great decisions you made and it will payoff handsomely. Also, congrats on actually accomplishing it. A lot of people sit out to retake but few make your level of improvement.

enz2103 wrote:After flopping my first LSAT and studying another year to retake, I got a 177! Now my stats are 177/3.4.

I want to attend a T13 law school or Vanderbilt. I'm really happy I studied another year and retook the exam, since my numbers look competitive for most schools based on MyLSN.

Now I have a few stupid questions:

1. Does anybody have a complete law school guide? Broad question, I know.
I want a guide on what law school classes everyone takes, what OCI is, etc. I do not want to start learning this stuff after applying.

2. I will blanket the T20 (minus Y/S). Any other schools I should consider applying to with my stats? I want to start in biglaw then move in-house. My regional preference is: Secondary Market (south/midwest) --> Chicago --> DC --> NYC --> California.

3. I will live in China until going to law school. I do not receive mail. How do most universities notify students of their acceptances? I am really afraid of "snail mail" not reaching me.

4. Is it possible to become an online LSAT tutor? I live in China (I am American), but this exam is completely learnable, and I would love to work part-time as a tutor or teacher.

Hey,
Congratulations!!! Im so ecstatic for you!
I hate to be that person, but..... did you have like a study plan or guide you followed to improve to a 177?

babyxmarine wrote:Hey,
Congratulations!!! Im so ecstatic for you!
I hate to be that person, but..... did you have like a study plan or guide you followed to improve to a 177?

I did not make a formal study plan, but I will give you my rough timeline.

First LSAT (failed): Read the Logic Games Bible, but did not study otherwise. Failed to complete the exam and canceled.

Retake Timeline:

June 2018: After canceling my first LSAT score, I decided I would not retake until the following June. I work full-time, so I could really only study 1-2 hours per day at the most.

November 2018: Began reading the Logical Reasoning Bible. This took about a week because I was only reading one hour per day (again, I work full-time). After I finished, I took the logical reasoning and logic games sections from practice exams 1-5 untimed. I only took 1-2 sections per day.

December 2018: Began reading the Reading Comprehension Bible. I read about 30 minutes per day and spent another 45 taking untimed reading comprehension sections from practice exams 1-5. After I finished those, I went onto full exams. For the rest of the month, I took one untimed practice session from exams 5-10, 4-5 days/week. I did not go in order.

January 2019: I began taking 2 untimed sections from exams 11-20 every weekday. That meant I was finishing 2.5 exams each week. Starting in this month, I went in order when taking exams. I did not set a timer, but used a stopwatch to track progress. My logic games and logical reasoning were under time, but my reading took too long.

February 2019: Took the first two weeks of the month off to visit family. Came back February 15 and resumed studying the same way as before. I finished about 5 exams this month.

March 2019: My untimed scores were within my goal range (172-175), so I began timing myself. I took 2 timed sections back to back 4-5 days/week. I finished exams 25-35 this month, but my scores dropped back into the high 160's due to time trouble. I kept timing myself anyway.

April - May 2019: Here's where things change. I skipped exams 35-50, and instead of studying 1-2 hours per day, I devoted Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays to taking full exams. I did not take full-timed exams, but rather two timed sections back-to-back, followed by a break, followed by two more timed sections. I also began doing 2 timed sections every Saturday. I finished exams 51-80, and I reached a point where my most confusing exams would still net scores of 173+.

June 2019: Exam day is June 23rd. In spite of this, I took the first week off. My brain needed a rest. In the second week, I took exams 35-40. This time, I simulated testing conditions. Even though I had no fear of stamina issues on exam day, I wanted to make sure I could go without rest. 3 timed sections -> 10 minute break -> 1 timed section. Again, my scores remained quite high (I think I PT'd above 174 for all 5). In the last week, I took exams 80-83. Better to end with recent examinations. Again, my scores remained high.

Day before the LSAT: Took two timed sections: reading comprehension and logic games. Did not check my score. Tried to relax.

Day of the LSAT: Up at 6:00 am. Four shot Americano Coffee followed by a timed logical reasoning section. Did not check my store.

enz2103 wrote:

babyxmarine wrote:Hey,
Congratulations!!! Im so ecstatic for you!
I hate to be that person, but..... did you have like a study plan or guide you followed to improve to a 177?

I did not make a formal study plan, but I will give you my rough timeline.

First LSAT (failed): Read the Logic Games Bible, but did not study otherwise. Failed to complete the exam and canceled.

Retake Timeline:

June 2018: After canceling my first LSAT score, I decided I would not retake until the following June. I work full-time, so I could really only study 1-2 hours per day at the most.

November 2018: Began reading the Logical Reasoning Bible. This took about a week because I was only reading one hour per day (again, I work full-time). After I finished, I took the logical reasoning and logic games sections from practice exams 1-5 untimed. I only took 1-2 sections per day.

December 2018: Began reading the Reading Comprehension Bible. I read about 30 minutes per day and spent another 45 taking untimed reading comprehension sections from practice exams 1-5. After I finished those, I went onto full exams. For the rest of the month, I took one untimed practice session from exams 5-10, 4-5 days/week. I did not go in order.

January 2019: I began taking 2 untimed sections from exams 11-20 every weekday. That meant I was finishing 2.5 exams each week. Starting in this month, I went in order when taking exams. I did not set a timer, but used a stopwatch to track progress. My logic games and logical reasoning were under time, but my reading took too long.

February 2019: Took the first two weeks of the month off to visit family. Came back February 15 and resumed studying the same way as before. I finished about 5 exams this month.

March 2019: My untimed scores were within my goal range (172-175), so I began timing myself. I took 2 timed sections back to back 4-5 days/week. I finished exams 25-35 this month, but my scores dropped back into the high 160's due to time trouble. I kept timing myself anyway.

April - May 2019: Here's where things change. I skipped exams 35-50, and instead of studying 1-2 hours per day, I devoted Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays to taking full exams. I did not take full-timed exams, but rather two timed sections back-to-back, followed by a break, followed by two more timed sections. I also began doing 2 timed sections every Saturday. I finished exams 51-80, and I reached a point where my most confusing exams would still net scores of 173+.

June 2019: Exam day is June 23rd. In spite of this, I took the first week off. My brain needed a rest. In the second week, I took exams 35-40. This time, I simulated testing conditions. Even though I had no fear of stamina issues on exam day, I wanted to make sure I could go without rest. 3 timed sections -> 10 minute break -> 1 timed section. Again, my scores remained quite high (I think I PT'd above 174 for all 5). In the last week, I took exams 80-83. Better to end with recent examinations. Again, my scores remained high.

Day before the LSAT: Took two timed sections: reading comprehension and logic games. Did not check my score. Tried to relax.

Day of the LSAT: Up at 6:00 am. Four shot Americano Coffee followed by a timed logical reasoning section. Did not check my store.

Thank you so much for this!!!! What were you PTing at before you cracked down for your year of studying?

babyxmarine wrote:Thank you so much for this!!!! What were you PTing at before you cracked down for your year of studying?

Could you please clarify the question?

If you are asking about my earliest PTs (i.e. 1-10), my scores were mostly in the high 160s.

If you are asking about a cold, timed diagnostic, I did not take one. After bombing my first LSAT (I did not study), I saw no reason to take a diagnostic.