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Hi, all - I've recently been waitlisted by Penn and would like to know if anyone has advice on how to get off of their waitlist (or waitlists in general). I heard last year they invited waitlisted applicants to on-campus interviews. Is this something they do each year? Do you recommend sending a LOCI? If so, when do you think is best to do so?

What are your current numbers?

If Penn is like most schools....simply, ED.

Sprinkler wrote:If Penn is like most schools....simply, ED.

That's not supported by any empirical data. The only thing ED does at most schools is increase your chance of paying sticker.

It’s also...kind of too late now?

I know a cohort that went the ED route at Penn. She got in and was given a scholarship, forgot the name of the scholarship but it fully paid the first year and half of years two and three.

1) scholarships given to ED applicants are tools for recruiting exceptional talent. They don’t mean that a borderline candidate will do better applying ED than regular decision. Your cohort would have got in and likely got the scholarship without applying ED.

2) the OP is already on a waitlist, so applying ED is moot. Why are you bringing it up?

Sprinkler wrote:If Penn is like most schools....simply, ED.

It's possible to switch from RD to ED even after having submitted your application and received a decision?

cavalier1138 wrote:What are your current numbers?

4.0/157/K-JD/URM

I posted in another thread that Spivey, an excellent admissions consultant, expects there to be a lot of waitlist movement this year. Even more than last year.
I know that doesn’t answer your question but maybe it will help with anxiety.

Npret wrote:I posted in another thread that Spivey, an excellent admissions consultant, expects there to be a lot of waitlist movement this year. Even more than last year.
I know that doesn’t answer your question but maybe it will help with anxiety.

Do you know why he feels this way?

usa1492 wrote:

Sprinkler wrote:If Penn is like most schools....simply, ED.

It's possible to switch from RD to ED even after having submitted your application and received a decision?

No. Once you've received an RD decision (including a WL decision), you can no longer switch to ED (as, after all, you've already received a decision).

usa1492 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:What are your current numbers?

4.0/157/K-JD/URM

Retake that LSAT. Go to Penn for free.

Or go to Yale.

But no matter what retaking is what will increase your chances.

cavalier1138 wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:What are your current numbers?

4.0/157/K-JD/URM

Retake that LSAT. Go to Penn for free.

Or go to Yale.

But no matter what retaking is what will increase your chances.

You're right. I just don't know how feasible that is. I studied intensely for seven months and was PTing in the 160-163 range but scored a 157.

Retake. Thank you, next.

Wubbles wrote:Retake. Thank you, next.

Gotcha. What score do you think would be high enough to justify waiting a year: a 160, 163, 166...?

I've been admitted to UVA but do not know how much money, if any, they'll give me. UVA is notorious for being stingy, so I am not expecting much. If I retake and re-apply next cycle with, say, a 160, who's to say UVA would admit me again? I've heard from many that there has been a decrease in the number of high-scoring applicants this cycle, but what if the opposite is true next cycle?

usa1492 wrote:

Npret wrote:I posted in another thread that Spivey, an excellent admissions consultant, expects there to be a lot of waitlist movement this year. Even more than last year.
I know that doesn’t answer your question but maybe it will help with anxiety.

Do you know why he feels this way?

Probably because high scores are down from last year and more people are applying without LSAT scores.

https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/halfway/

usa1492 wrote:

Wubbles wrote:Retake. Thank you, next.

Gotcha. What score do you think would be high enough to justify waiting a year: a 160, 163, 166...?

I've been admitted to UVA but do not know how much money, if any, they'll give me. UVA is notorious for being stingy, so I am not expecting much. If I retake and re-apply next cycle with, say, a 160, who's to say UVA would admit me again? I've heard from many that there has been a decrease in the number of high-scoring applicants this cycle, but what if the opposite is true next cycle?

To be completely honest with your GPA literally ANY lsat improvement would go a long way. Even on the off chance UVA didn’t admit you again, with a higher score you’d be looking at $$$$ up and down the T-14 and could easily get into HYS if you wanted to. The LSAT just requires practice so whatever you were doing before to prepare is just clearly not enough but you’d be doing yourself a serious disservice by not trying to improve your score.

Restudying for the LSAT can feel overwhelming (I should know, I took it twice). But the effort is worth it, and it more than pays for itself with the reduced debts you'll have to face. I have below 90K debt half a year out of law school and I regularly see others post about having at least 200K in loans. Interest adds up real fast.

I took every released LSAT and retook some for practice. Try to simulate the actual testing condition. Because the real exam will have an additional section (experimental questions but you won't know which is experimental), I usually just added a random section from another test. I think a lot of posters will agree that it's relatively easier to see improvement in the logic games section, so try to target it if you can. I got a perfect on that (as many have probably) and it's a nice way to boost your score. Good luck OP!

KunAgnis wrote:Restudying for the LSAT can feel overwhelming (I should know, I took it twice). But the effort is worth it, and it more than pays for itself with the reduced debts you'll have to face. I have below 90K debt half a year out of law school and I regularly see others post about having at least 200K in loans. Interest adds up real fast.

I took every released LSAT and retook some for practice. Try to simulate the actual testing condition. Because the real exam will have an additional section (experimental questions but you won't know which is experimental), I usually just added a random section from another test. I think a lot of posters will agree that it's relatively easier to see improvement in the logic games section, so try to target it if you can. I got a perfect on that (as many have probably) and it's a nice way to boost your score. Good luck OP!

Considering the LSAT has gone digital, do you think preparing for it now would be much different from preparing for the paper exam? There are many strategies I employed when I took the July '18 exam that I don't think would translate well to a digital exam. (Perhaps I should just forget about those strategies and learn better ones.)

TLS wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

Wubbles wrote:Retake. Thank you, next.

Gotcha. What score do you think would be high enough to justify waiting a year: a 160, 163, 166...?

I've been admitted to UVA but do not know how much money, if any, they'll give me. UVA is notorious for being stingy, so I am not expecting much. If I retake and re-apply next cycle with, say, a 160, who's to say UVA would admit me again? I've heard from many that there has been a decrease in the number of high-scoring applicants this cycle, but what if the opposite is true next cycle?

To be completely honest with your GPA literally ANY lsat improvement would go a long way. Even on the off chance UVA didn’t admit you again, with a higher score you’d be looking at $$$$ up and down the T-14 and could easily get into HYS if you wanted to. The LSAT just requires practice so whatever you were doing before to prepare is just clearly not enough but you’d be doing yourself a serious disservice by not trying to improve your score.

Do you think it'd be wise to deposit at UVA and take the July '19 exam, allowing me to still attend a T13 in the event that I do not improve my score?

usa1492 wrote:

TLS wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

Wubbles wrote:Retake. Thank you, next.

Gotcha. What score do you think would be high enough to justify waiting a year: a 160, 163, 166...?

I've been admitted to UVA but do not know how much money, if any, they'll give me. UVA is notorious for being stingy, so I am not expecting much. If I retake and re-apply next cycle with, say, a 160, who's to say UVA would admit me again? I've heard from many that there has been a decrease in the number of high-scoring applicants this cycle, but what if the opposite is true next cycle?

To be completely honest with your GPA literally ANY lsat improvement would go a long way. Even on the off chance UVA didn’t admit you again, with a higher score you’d be looking at $$$$ up and down the T-14 and could easily get into HYS if you wanted to. The LSAT just requires practice so whatever you were doing before to prepare is just clearly not enough but you’d be doing yourself a serious disservice by not trying to improve your score.

Do you think it'd be wise to deposit at UVA and take the July '19 exam, allowing me to still attend a T13 in the event that I do not improve my score?

Not to be harsh but with a score that low If you don’t improve I’d blame that completely on an inability to commit yourself to studying and personally that’s not a good enough excuse. If you’re willing to accept mediocrity or just refuse to wait another year that’s your prerogative but you’re literally giving up admission and likely full rides at multiple T6 schools by throwing in the towel now. Even at UVA with your GPA you could easily qualify for a Dillard next cycle but I’d you’re not willing to wait and actually try and study that’s your choice.

TLS wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

TLS wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

Wubbles wrote:Retake. Thank you, next.

Gotcha. What score do you think would be high enough to justify waiting a year: a 160, 163, 166...?

I've been admitted to UVA but do not know how much money, if any, they'll give me. UVA is notorious for being stingy, so I am not expecting much. If I retake and re-apply next cycle with, say, a 160, who's to say UVA would admit me again? I've heard from many that there has been a decrease in the number of high-scoring applicants this cycle, but what if the opposite is true next cycle?

To be completely honest with your GPA literally ANY lsat improvement would go a long way. Even on the off chance UVA didn’t admit you again, with a higher score you’d be looking at $$$$ up and down the T-14 and could easily get into HYS if you wanted to. The LSAT just requires practice so whatever you were doing before to prepare is just clearly not enough but you’d be doing yourself a serious disservice by not trying to improve your score.

Do you think it'd be wise to deposit at UVA and take the July '19 exam, allowing me to still attend a T13 in the event that I do not improve my score?

Not to be harsh but with a score that low If you don’t improve I’d blame that completely on an inability to commit yourself to studying and personally that’s not a good enough excuse. If you’re willing to accept mediocrity or just refuse to wait another year that’s your prerogative but you’re literally giving up admission and likely full rides at multiple T6 schools by throwing in the towel now. Even at UVA with your GPA you could easily qualify for a Dillard next cycle but I’d you’re not willing to wait and actually try and study that’s your choice.

You've persuaded me. I'm retaking. Thank you. The data on MyLSN, though a small sample, shows that with six more points, I'd be in Dillard territory and almost an automatic admit at schools ranked 4-13. I've gotta seize this opportunity.

usa1492 wrote:

TLS wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

TLS wrote:

usa1492 wrote:

Wubbles wrote:Retake. Thank you, next.

You've persuaded me. I'm retaking. Thank you. The data on MyLSN, though a small sample, shows that with six more points, I'd be in Dillard territory and almost an automatic admit at schools ranked 4-13. I've gotta seize this opportunity.

Good choice. You are going to be paid 60k per year for the next 3 years if you manage to sacrifice the next few months to improve your LSAT. Honestly, you will never get such a return-on-investment in your life again. Keep going, and when you hit a plateau and think about giving up...just remember how much you are technically being paid for that extra point.