Top Law Schools

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Retake

Not an option.

I would write it. Your AP exam scores are compelling and intriguing. Based on your international status, you also sound like a unique candidate. You will certainly be eligible for some great scholarship money at some very good schools, even if they aren’t in the top 20. A lot of schools between T20 and T70 have special scholarships for students with 160+. (And even in the Top 20, you may have a chance!) Take advantage of every opportunity to showcase your softs and write why addendums at some top schools.

Oneanddone? wrote:I would write it. Your AP exam scores are compelling and intriguing. Based on your international status, you also sound like a unique candidate. You will certainly be eligible for some great scholarship money at some very good schools, even if they aren’t in the top 20. A lot of schools between T20 and T70 have special scholarships for students with 160+. (And even in the Top 20, you may have a chance!) Take advantage of every opportunity to showcase your softs and write why addendums at some top schools.

Thank you for your advice!

For sure do it. Look up prelawhandbook (and others) for more detailed advice, but the general advice is to contrast your low SAT with your great GPA and subtly suggest that because of the past trend of low standardized test taking, your LSAT isn’t indicative of how you’ll do in law school either. Lots of places suggest putting your SAT score in the addendum and attaching a copy of the SAT report so law schools know you’re being honest. Good luck! Congrats on the great GPA!

isarap wrote:Not an option.

Because you know you won't do well or because of some other factor?

Did you do a prep course? Which one?

I can understand if you struggle with standardized tests but there is a whole industry devoted to teaching people how to take the LSAT. Your story and GPA tell me you have the ability to do better on the LSAT than you might think.

isarap wrote:

Oneanddone? wrote:I would write it. Your AP exam scores are compelling and intriguing. Based on your international status, you also sound like a unique candidate. You will certainly be eligible for some great scholarship money at some very good schools, even if they aren’t in the top 20. A lot of schools between T20 and T70 have special scholarships for students with 160+. (And even in the Top 20, you may have a chance!) Take advantage of every opportunity to showcase your softs and write why addendums at some top schools.

Thank you for your advice!

This was bad advice. You should be retaking. I had a similar gpa to you and bombed my first LSAT. Retook and had a double digit improvement and am now attending a t13 on the cheap

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The financial repercussions will be astronomically higher by not sitting out to retake

schools don't give a shit about your personal story or what type of learner you are, or whether your scores are reflective of how you'll do in law school. they only care about GPA/LSAT because that's how rankings are calculated.

they especially don't give a shit about "how you'll perform" bc grading is on a curve. you're writing an addendum to ask the school to take a hit on their incoming LSAT numbers for no reason/benefit.

just retake the damn test. nobody cares how long you studied for, or how many PTs you took. yeah, you suck at standardized tests. maybe it'll take you 2 years or 3 years. it really doesn't matter.

as for the "financial reasons" bullshit line - you have a near 4.0 GPA with a double major and UG research experience. are you saying you can't find a job?

isarap wrote:I have spent a year studying. I am not retaking the exam. I do not think I will improve. My testing conditions were perfect and I was not nervous. I took power score class. I did the foolproof method with the 30 something full 5 sections PTs I took. I am currently on a gap year and need to start on my law school education as soon as possible. I cannot take another year off for financial reasons among other reasons.

It's one thing if you think you can't do better, but I still don't think that's true. You describe a foolproof method. There's no such thing. Hire a tutor who can figure out where you're going wrong. You aren't able to identify the issue yourself, so find someone who can.

You answered my question exactly like I predicted, so I will give you a pretty standard retort:

Why do you need to start law school ASAP? You will not turn into a pumpkin if you're not in law school next year. Law schools will not turn into pumpkins. Financially, it is nearly always smarter to not go to law school as it is outrageously expensive and your odds of getting a job to service that debt aren't high. I can think of no financial reason to rush into law school, unless someone is literally paying for you to go and wants you to do it sooner than later. Even then, a retake will get you better results and get you into schools that can open doors for your career, depending on your goals.

isarap wrote:I have spent a year studying. I am not retaking the exam. I do not think I will improve. My testing conditions were perfect and I was not nervous. I took power score class. I did the foolproof method with the 30 something full 5 sections PTs I took. I am currently on a gap year and need to start on my law school education as soon as possible. I cannot take another year off for financial reasons among other reasons.

You cannot take a year off for financial reasons, but you can totally take on $300k of debt?

You're young. I know you think that you're never going to have the chance to do anything if you don't do it right this very second, but I promise that law school isn't going anywhere.

I mean you only took the test once so it’s silly to say you can’t do better. Maybe you can’t get a 180, although I wouldn’t assume that it’s impossible. However, if u manage to get your 160 to a 165, your options change dramatically.

Edit: I took the test 4 times improving 6 points from where I started, and it was totally worth it. I spent over two years studying, although obviously not consistently throughout the whole 2 years

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No school that's going to admit you with an LSAT that low is going to care much about any of this. Don't waste your time.

You can give an addendum. Nobody thinks the addendum is a bad idea on its own. We think your failure to retake is a bad idea.

I was on an adcomm as a 3L. If I saw that addendum and only one attempt at the LSAT, I'd vote reject. Maybe at best a waitlist. If you aren't evincing a willingness to apply yourself, reevaluate your approach and try again, then you won't succeed in law school and I wouldn't want you taking a spot from someone who would do those things, even if they had the same stats (or worse).

mcmand wrote:You can give an addendum. Nobody thinks the addendum is a bad idea on its own. We think your failure to retake is a bad idea.

I was on an adcomm as a 3L. If I saw that addendum and only one attempt at the LSAT, I'd vote reject. Maybe at best a waitlist. If you aren't evincing a willingness to apply yourself, reevaluate your approach and try again, then you won't succeed in law school and I wouldn't want you taking a spot from someone who would do those things, even if they had the same stats (or worse).

You make a good point, the combination of one LSAT take plus an addendum does not look good. I think I am just going to apply without it.

I have been studying for the LSAT since my sophomore year of college. Little by little of course, and eventually almost full time. I reevaluated my approach multiple times and received advise from many people. At this point, I am burned out from the LSAT. I had planned to take it multiple times but because of the hurricane in Florida I could not. I am going to finish applying for this cycle. Then, I'll relax so I can be ready for the fall 2018 semester.

Is your LSAT score a 160, or am I reading this wrong?

Because to me a 160 doesn't say "Oh I really struggle with standardized tests but here is my history of academic success independent of testing" but really just screams "I am too stubborn to retake and would rather just apply with the score and I have and pretty please look past it and see this sparkling GPA."

If you can hit a 160 on your first attempt you can almost certainly push that score into the high 160s. The addendum seems unnecessary and really it seems counterproductive. I would think adcomms would be put off by it.

isarap wrote:

mcmand wrote:You can give an addendum. Nobody thinks the addendum is a bad idea on its own. We think your failure to retake is a bad idea.

I was on an adcomm as a 3L. If I saw that addendum and only one attempt at the LSAT, I'd vote reject. Maybe at best a waitlist. If you aren't evincing a willingness to apply yourself, reevaluate your approach and try again, then you won't succeed in law school and I wouldn't want you taking a spot from someone who would do those things, even if they had the same stats (or worse).

You make a good point, the combination of one LSAT take plus an addendum does not look good. I think I am just going to apply without it.

I have been studying for the LSAT since my sophomore year of college. Little by little of course, and eventually almost full time. I reevaluated my approach multiple times and received advise from many people. At this point, I am burned out from the LSAT. I had planned to take it multiple times but because of the hurricane in Florida I could not. I am going to finish applying for this cycle. Then, I'll relax so I can be ready for the fall 2018 semester.

My goal with my post was to convince you to retake. Not sure why you are so opposed beyond being burned out. Burnout doesn't mean "settle," it means take a break and then look at your approach from a different perspective and figure out what's going wrong.

I know that burn out feeling youre talking about. I took the LSAT 2 times in 2016 and thought I would never touch prep material agin after that, but about 9 months later after being accepted by 9 2nd and 3rd tier law schools I decided to sit out a year and retake. I ended up improved my score by 8 points and it was the best decision Ive ever made. That burnout feeling will fade, and when it does you need to at the very least consider sitting out a year and retaking. You have a degree and a kick ass GPA, so you can definitely find a well paying job and survive financially. If you had a lower GPA maybe Id say 160 is an ok score, but you are literally wasting a near perfect GPA.

MercW07 wrote:I know that burn out feeling youre talking about. I took the LSAT 2 times in 2016 and thought I would never touch prep material agin after that, but about 9 months later after being accepted by 9 2nd and 3rd tier law schools I decided to sit out a year and retake. I ended up improved my score by 8 points and it was the best decision Ive ever made. That burnout feeling will fade, and when it does you need to at the very least consider sitting out a year and retaking. You have a degree and a kick ass GPA, so you can definitely find a well paying job and survive financially. If you had a lower GPA maybe Id say 160 is an ok score, but you are literally wasting a near perfect GPA.

Thank you being understanding. Yeah, I am just terribly exhausted. The thought of just taking it again makes me so anxious. I think I will make a compromise. I will apply for this cycle and if I am not happy with the results I will retake it I think it's a good middle ground between what I want to do and everyone's advice on what to do. Universities do not see reapplying as a bad thing, so why not just see what happens with this cycle...

Thank you!

isarap wrote:

MercW07 wrote:I know that burn out feeling youre talking about. I took the LSAT 2 times in 2016 and thought I would never touch prep material agin after that, but about 9 months later after being accepted by 9 2nd and 3rd tier law schools I decided to sit out a year and retake. I ended up improved my score by 8 points and it was the best decision Ive ever made. That burnout feeling will fade, and when it does you need to at the very least consider sitting out a year and retaking. You have a degree and a kick ass GPA, so you can definitely find a well paying job and survive financially. If you had a lower GPA maybe Id say 160 is an ok score, but you are literally wasting a near perfect GPA.

Thank you being understanding. Yeah, I am just terribly exhausted. The thought of just taking it again makes me so anxious. I think I will make a compromise. I will apply for this cycle and if I am not happy with the results I will retake it I think it's a good middle ground between what I want to do and everyone's advice on what to do. Universities do not see reapplying as a bad thing, so why not just see what happens with this cycle...

Thank you!

Nothing wrong with seeing how it goes, other than the cost of application fees. Just don't get frenzied about going when the ones that do admit you start laying it on thick. They can be like car salesmen and really start pushing the sale. Make sure you don't give in to that pressure. There is always another cycle if you're not 100% on board with it.

mcmand wrote:

isarap wrote:

MercW07 wrote:I know that burn out feeling youre talking about. I took the LSAT 2 times in 2016 and thought I would never touch prep material agin after that, but about 9 months later after being accepted by 9 2nd and 3rd tier law schools I decided to sit out a year and retake. I ended up improved my score by 8 points and it was the best decision Ive ever made. That burnout feeling will fade, and when it does you need to at the very least consider sitting out a year and retaking. You have a degree and a kick ass GPA, so you can definitely find a well paying job and survive financially. If you had a lower GPA maybe Id say 160 is an ok score, but you are literally wasting a near perfect GPA.

Thank you being understanding. Yeah, I am just terribly exhausted. The thought of just taking it again makes me so anxious. I think I will make a compromise. I will apply for this cycle and if I am not happy with the results I will retake it I think it's a good middle ground between what I want to do and everyone's advice on what to do. Universities do not see reapplying as a bad thing, so why not just see what happens with this cycle...

Thank you!

Nothing wrong with seeing how it goes, other than the cost of application fees. Just don't get frenzied about going when the ones that do admit you start laying it on thick. They can be like car salesmen and really start pushing the sale. Make sure you don't give in to that pressure. There is always another cycle if you're not 100% on board with it.

I have the LSAC waiver so all I have to pay are the report fees, which are not bad compared to the regular costs.

I'll keep that in mind. I was going to apply last year and then ended up taking a gap year to improve my practice LSAT score. I did not see the point in taking the LSAT knowing I was going to score a 155 or so. I know it prepares you for test anxiety and it's practice for the actual test setting. But when I finally took the LSAT this last December, I felt prepared in terms of all of that without having sat for the actual exam. I was not nervous at all and everything was as expected.

I do not want to postpone applying again because I want to get an idea of where I could go. But if I am not pleased with my acceptances and I get no scholarship/grant offers, then I'll for sure retake the LSAT.

isarap wrote:

MercW07 wrote:I know that burn out feeling youre talking about. I took the LSAT 2 times in 2016 and thought I would never touch prep material agin after that, but about 9 months later after being accepted by 9 2nd and 3rd tier law schools I decided to sit out a year and retake. I ended up improved my score by 8 points and it was the best decision Ive ever made. That burnout feeling will fade, and when it does you need to at the very least consider sitting out a year and retaking. You have a degree and a kick ass GPA, so you can definitely find a well paying job and survive financially. If you had a lower GPA maybe Id say 160 is an ok score, but you are literally wasting a near perfect GPA.

Thank you being understanding. Yeah, I am just terribly exhausted. The thought of just taking it again makes me so anxious. I think I will make a compromise. I will apply for this cycle and if I am not happy with the results I will retake it I think it's a good middle ground between what I want to do and everyone's advice on what to do. Universities do not see reapplying as a bad thing, so why not just see what happens with this cycle...

Thank you!

I think thats a great plan. At first I was very excited to get accepted to a few of the schools, but as time went on and I did more research something just did not feel right. It had been quite a while since I last took the LSAT at that point, and the burnout feeling had faded so a retake did not seem like such a terrible thing. You'll see people on here daily saying that the LSAT is learnable and they are right, just gotta put in the effort.