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Can you give a timeline on the tickets?

It's probably not an issue, but if that many tickets are spread out over a few years, it might raise some eyebrows when you try to explain that you've learned your lesson.

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Based on that, I think you may have an issue worth consulting someone about. I don't know that you need a C&F attorney's input, but five tickets over five years for the same thing definitely paints a bad picture.

cavalier1138 wrote:Can you give a timeline on the tickets?

It's probably not an issue, but if that many tickets are spread out over a few years, it might raise some eyebrows when you try to explain that you've learned your lesson.

I disagree with the bolded. That being said, there’s really nothing you can do about it short of writing an addendum (which just highlights your bad decision-making). I would disclose without comment and just let the chips fall where they may.

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pleaseberkeley wrote:I shouldn't comment on it? I feel someone may think I'm an alcoholic unless I provide context, like I walked outside of a party with beer in my hand a few times.

I think the "alcoholic" picture is going to be pretty clear, regardless of how you contextualize it.

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pleaseberkeley wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleaseberkeley wrote:I shouldn't comment on it? I feel someone may think I'm an alcoholic unless I provide context, like I walked outside of a party with beer in my hand a few times.

I think the "alcoholic" picture is going to be pretty clear, regardless of how you contextualize it.

Well I don't really drink often. Only one of these tickets happened on a random weekend. The rest were during a holiday or festival. Like, I don't go to bars or keep alcohol in my fridge.

With all due respect, you seem to have either a drinking problem or a peer-pressure problem. I can't imagine why you'd

hang out on your friend Dave's open porch with an open container on July 4th, 2017, after
getting ticketed for doing exactly the same thing on July 4th, 2016, after
getting cited for wandering from Rebecca's 21st birthday party to the pizza place with an open beer in 2015, after
getting written up by campus police for drinking on the front lawn of your frat house in 2014, after
getting a MIP ticket for drinking during your freshman orientation in 2012.

Surely you'd change your behavior after incidents two or three, if only to save money on fines that could otherwise be spent on beer.


ETA: as others have said, consult with a C&F attorney. I'd strongly recommend taking a few years off before applying to law school, and doing your darndest not to get into further legal trouble during that time.

You may eventually pass character and fitness but the process will suck for you. Nothing shows a blatant disregard for the law better than getting 5 separate charges that are largely similar over a 5 year period. It will be assumed that you either have a drinking problem or you were immature. Perception is reality; sometimes even in law. At this point all you can do is disclose it to the schools and hope for the best. If i were you I would hire an experienced character and fitness attorney for consultation. You don't want to waste your time if the state you decide to be barred in gives lengthy delays or doesn't allow people with your record to practice. How would you feel if you had to wait 2 years after graduation and attend alcohol counseling just to practice law? How many firms do you think would hold your offer if they knew you had this hanging over you? Get as much information as you can and make an informed decision.

you'll probably get into school fairly easily so long as you disclose but they'll put you through the ringer when applying for the bar.

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being an alcoholic is less about the frequency and amount that you drink but rather why you drink, how you behave, and how your body reacts when you do drink.

also, being an alcoholic exists on a spectrum. the c&f fear is that you react negatively to alcohol now, and maybe the "disease" could progress. you already have 5 citations when you barely drink. what could happen when you start pounding the sauce harder down the road?

pleaseberkeley wrote:

icechicken wrote:

pleaseberkeley wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleaseberkeley wrote:I shouldn't comment on it? I feel someone may think I'm an alcoholic unless I provide context, like I walked outside of a party with beer in my hand a few times.

I think the "alcoholic" picture is going to be pretty clear, regardless of how you contextualize it.

Well I don't really drink often. Only one of these tickets happened on a random weekend. The rest were during a holiday or festival. Like, I don't go to bars or keep alcohol in my fridge.

With all due respect, you seem to have either a drinking problem or a peer-pressure problem. I can't imagine why you'd

hang out on your friend Dave's open porch with an open container on July 4th, 2017, after
getting ticketed for doing exactly the same thing on July 4th, 2016, after
getting cited for wandering from Rebecca's 21st birthday party to the pizza place with an open beer in 2015, after
getting written up by campus police for drinking on the front lawn of your frat house in 2014, after
getting a MIP ticket for drinking during your freshman orientation in 2012.

Surely you'd change your behavior after incidents two or three, if only to save money on fines that could otherwise be spent on beer.


ETA: as others have said, consult with a C&F attorney. I'd strongly recommend taking a few years off before applying to law school, and doing your darndest not to get into further legal trouble during that time.

No you don't understand. I mean I very seldom drink, br when I do, it's during a 4th of julyconcert, or the first weekend of school at university, or my first frat party. These all happened by the way. For example, in a typical month, unless there's some event like a concert or something I won't drink. As a friend once told me, I just have very bad luck with the police. For example, I have consumed alcohol on two occasions this semester and it's almost over.

No one cares. You made the same mistake 5 times. Most people learn after 1 maybe 2 mistakes. You have been given many second chances. If a law school accepts you, they are taking a risk that they don't really have to take. You will likely face scrutiny at c&f. You may relapse and get caught with an open container in law school because it seems that you like to make that mistake when you drink. You're not rational if you can't see why it would be hard for anyone to believe that you don't have a problem. No one cares about you having "bad luck with cops" unless those cops actions were illegal and you have proof. Be an adult and take responsibility. You got yourself in this mess and if you want to be a lawyer you have to own it and fix it.

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A c&f attorney tells you how people with similar criminal backgrounds fared in the C&F process in the state you want to practice. They then advise you on the best way to maneuver through the process. C&F starts after law school but before the bar. People with negative criminal histories sometimes are delayed from sitting for the bar and some are never allowed.

what age are you now, OP?

The fact you have 5 alcohol infractions doesn't mean you are an alcoholic, but you may have to go to counseling anyway one day to make a showing of rehabilitation. Think about all the celebrities ever accused of any drug or alcohol offense. They immediately go to counseling even if they are not true addicts just to make a showing that they take their image and rehabilitation seriously. It shows that you understand your behavior and are publicly committed to never doing it again. Lawyers and wannabe lawyers are no different.

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pleaseberkeley wrote:

Justtrying2help wrote:The fact you have 5 alcohol infractions doesn't mean you are an alcoholic, but you may have to go to counseling anyway one day to make a showing of rehabilitation. Think about all the celebrities ever accused of any drug or alcohol offense. They immediately go to counseling even if they are not true addicts just to make a showing that they take their image and rehabilitation seriously. It shows that you understand your behavior and are publicly committed to never doing it again. Lawyers and wannabe lawyers are no different.

Ahh I see. This I can definitely do. Do you think it would be smarter to play the "I was an alcoholic, it wrecked havoc on my life" card? Or, just go to counselling and bring up the fact that I went to counselling to show that I took my rehabilitation seriously?

That’s probably a question best left for the C&F attorney. I wouldn’t exaggerate the situation by any means but when you have 5 infractions for the same thing people might not take your protestations that you barely even drink at face value.

Those are questions best left for your attorney. Also, you'll learn the importance of candor in this field if you get the chance.

pleaseberkeley wrote:

icechicken wrote:

pleaseberkeley wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleaseberkeley wrote:I shouldn't comment on it? I feel someone may think I'm an alcoholic unless I provide context, like I walked outside of a party with beer in my hand a few times.

I think the "alcoholic" picture is going to be pretty clear, regardless of how you contextualize it.

Well I don't really drink often. Only one of these tickets happened on a random weekend. The rest were during a holiday or festival. Like, I don't go to bars or keep alcohol in my fridge.

With all due respect, you seem to have either a drinking problem or a peer-pressure problem. I can't imagine why you'd

hang out on your friend Dave's open porch with an open container on July 4th, 2017, after
getting ticketed for doing exactly the same thing on July 4th, 2016, after
getting cited for wandering from Rebecca's 21st birthday party to the pizza place with an open beer in 2015, after
getting written up by campus police for drinking on the front lawn of your frat house in 2014, after
getting a MIP ticket for drinking during your freshman orientation in 2012.

Surely you'd change your behavior after incidents two or three, if only to save money on fines that could otherwise be spent on beer.


ETA: as others have said, consult with a C&F attorney. I'd strongly recommend taking a few years off before applying to law school, and doing your darndest not to get into further legal trouble during that time.

No you don't understand. I mean I very seldom drink, br when I do, it's during a 4th of julyconcert, or the first weekend of school at university, or my first frat party. These all happened by the way. For example, in a typical month, unless there's some event like a concert or something I won't drink. As a friend once told me, I just have very bad luck with the police. For example, I have consumed alcohol on two occasions this semester and it's almost over.

I agree with other people that it’s important for you to understand that while this may be true, it won’t be seen as this by adcomms or a state bar’s c&f committee. I have friends who drank to blackout pretty much daily in college and still binge drink a lot in their late 20s. None of them have more than one or two similar tickets, if they have any at all. The fact you have five screams serious problems with alcohol and very poor decision-making.

Arguing that you don’t have a problem will only make it look worse to adomms and c&f.

Go to counseling, even if you don’t need it, and for the love of all things holy don’t get another ticket. You might also want to wait a few years to apply if any of these tickets is recent.

pleaseberkeley wrote:

Justtrying2help wrote:The fact you have 5 alcohol infractions doesn't mean you are an alcoholic, but you may have to go to counseling anyway one day to make a showing of rehabilitation. Think about all the celebrities ever accused of any drug or alcohol offense. They immediately go to counseling even if they are not true addicts just to make a showing that they take their image and rehabilitation seriously. It shows that you understand your behavior and are publicly committed to never doing it again. Lawyers and wannabe lawyers are no different.

Ahh I see. This I can definitely do. Do you think it would be smarter to play the "I was an alcoholic, it wrecked havoc on my life" card? Or, just go to counselling and bring up the fact that I went to counselling to show that I took my rehabilitation seriously?

I think minimum, you shouldn't identify yourself so openly on a board where many deans of admission read and then talk about strategies for "playing a card."

You will have to write a very sincere and nuanced C&F addendum, so yes your chances are already impacted. If you are 30 now, much less so. if you are 23 and the most recent was a month ago, 5 is a pattern. Research suggest, for example, for every DUI someone gets they drive up to 100 times drunk without getting caught. Fortunately these are not of the DUI variety but they are a systemic trend. I would except a much slower decision cycle for you, meaning schools will likely sit on your file longer relative to people with the same numbers.

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