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SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:46 pm
by screwtapeletters
What are your thoughts?
A friend of mine, who has a 3.9x from a state flagship in software engineering and currently working in a software company is considering law school. I told him you should just stay put and continue making the world a better place and not go to law school, but then I realized that because he is thinking of getting masters and is therefore considering taking the GRE, mentioned to him that maybe he should just sneak in an application to HLS along with his apps to engineering schools just to see what might happen.
My understanding is that HLS has to evaluate the LSAT once he takes it, so this might be one-shot type of a thing. It'd be interesting to see what the results would be, but thought I'd throw this out to TLS and see what you guys think.
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:54 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:23 pm
by screwtapeletters
TheKingLives wrote:That's my plan at the moment, although I'm not sure how Harvard will look at applicants applying with only a GRE score (no LSAT) and how many of us there will end up being. Want to apply early to maximize my chances but really need to nail the GRE the first time to make that possible.
GRE is not that bad. Not saying it's easy, but just to provide you with a perspective, it took me 6 months total of full studying to get to the 90th percentile on the LSAT (and on the 4th take), but only about 2 months of part-time studying to get to 95%+ on both verbal and math on the GRE (And the GRE was during college; LSAT was after college).
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:17 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:21 pm
by Future Ex-Engineer
TheKingLives wrote:screwtapeletters wrote:TheKingLives wrote:That's my plan at the moment, although I'm not sure how Harvard will look at applicants applying with only a GRE score (no LSAT) and how many of us there will end up being. Want to apply early to maximize my chances but really need to nail the GRE the first time to make that possible.
GRE is not that bad. Not saying it's easy, but just to provide you with a perspective, it took me 6 months total of full studying to get to the 90th percentile on the LSAT (and on the 4th take), but only about 2 months of part-time studying to get to 95%+ on both verbal and math on the GRE (And the GRE was during college; LSAT was after college).
That's encouraging to hear, thank you! The LSAT was an absolute nightmare for me and so far the GRE looks like a much more fair (albeit still difficult) monster.
So easier = more fair?
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:23 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:27 pm
by Future Ex-Engineer
TheKingLives wrote:Future Ex-Engineer wrote:TheKingLives wrote:screwtapeletters wrote:TheKingLives wrote:That's my plan at the moment, although I'm not sure how Harvard will look at applicants applying with only a GRE score (no LSAT) and how many of us there will end up being. Want to apply early to maximize my chances but really need to nail the GRE the first time to make that possible.
GRE is not that bad. Not saying it's easy, but just to provide you with a perspective, it took me 6 months total of full studying to get to the 90th percentile on the LSAT (and on the 4th take), but only about 2 months of part-time studying to get to 95%+ on both verbal and math on the GRE (And the GRE was during college; LSAT was after college).
That's encouraging to hear, thank you! The LSAT was an absolute nightmare for me and so far the GRE looks like a much more fair (albeit still difficult) monster.
So easier = more fair?
Shorter time to study for = more fair.
you're not going to have a very good time here
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:28 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:32 pm
by cavalier1138
TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:40 pm
by Future Ex-Engineer
cavalier1138 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:49 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:51 pm
by Future Ex-Engineer
TheKingLives wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
As someone who
comes from a poor background and worked as an admissions ambassador at my undergraduate institution, I absolutely care about a fair admissions process, and in my opinion that means opening up the number of standardized tests available for applicants to take. Don't make assumptions about others based on what is true for yourself.was not very good at the LSAT I am pleased that a different test that is easier is now available
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:53 pm
by kingpin101
TheKingLives wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
As someone who comes from a poor background and worked as an admissions ambassador at my undergraduate institution, I absolutely care about a fair admissions process, and in my opinion that means opening up the number of standardized tests available for applicants to take. Don't make assumptions about others based on what is true for yourself.
This doesn't explain at all making a test hard unfairly affects poor people, but okay...
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:53 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:57 pm
by Samarcan
Future Ex-Engineer wrote:TheKingLives wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
As someone who
comes from a poor background and worked as an admissions ambassador at my undergraduate institution, I absolutely care about a fair admissions process, and in my opinion that means opening up the number of standardized tests available for applicants to take. Don't make assumptions about others based on what is true for yourself.was not very good at the LSAT I am pleased that a different test that is easier is now available
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:57 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:58 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:59 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:17 pm
by Future Ex-Engineer
TheKingLives wrote:Future Ex-Engineer wrote:TheKingLives wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
As someone who
comes from a poor background and worked as an admissions ambassador at my undergraduate institution, I absolutely care about a fair admissions process, and in my opinion that means opening up the number of standardized tests available for applicants to take. Don't make assumptions about others based on what is true for yourself.was not very good at the LSAT I am pleased that a different test that is easier is now available
Bitter much?
Nah. I've got a >50% chance to get in at every school in the country (other than Yale, but you don't hit >50% unless you have a 180/4.0). I was naturally good at the LSAT, and with a bit of work I went from good to excellent.
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:21 pm
by cavalier1138
TheKingLives wrote:The LSAT is an exam that few people can do well on without studying. The money and time needed to do well on both can be high, and poor students who are working to support themselves may not have the resources to devote to 6+ months of LSAT prep. Not rocket science.
I'm generally of two minds about this. I agree that a lot of test prep options are stupidly expensive and box out a lot of low-income students. On the other hand, I prepared for the exam while working two jobs and spent a grand total of $30 on prep materials. So my sympathy is limited.
But your angle on taking the GRE is so blatantly self-interested that this is a pointless debate to rehash here.
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:21 pm
by Platopus
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:26 pm
by TheKingLives
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Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:31 pm
by cavalier1138
On the plus side, maybe you can be a test case to see whether Harvard is genuinely going to treat the GRE as an LSAT equivalent. Or you could just hang around and be the resident most-annoying-0L-in-history for the next few months.
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:29 pm
by Future Ex-Engineer
ferrisjo 2.0
Re: SOLELY GRE for HLS with no LSAT
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:12 am
by Slippin' Jimmy
TheKingLives wrote:kingpin101 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:TheKingLives wrote:Shorter time to study for = more fair.
Maybe just call it what it is and say that it's easier. There's no point pretending that you're acting out of an unyielding desire for justice in admissions.
As someone who comes from a poor background and worked as an admissions ambassador at my undergraduate institution, I absolutely care about a fair admissions process, and in my opinion that means opening up the number of standardized tests available for applicants to take. Don't make assumptions about others based on what is true for yourself.
This doesn't explain at all making a test hard unfairly affects poor people, but okay...
The LSAT is an exam that few people can do well on without studying. The money and time needed to do well on both can be high, and poor students who are working to support themselves may not have the resources to devote to 6+ months of LSAT prep. Not rocket science.
I went to school full time while working 25-30 hours a week while studying, plus I'm dead broke. I probably spent a total of $300 on test materials, and realistically I could have spent about half of that if I were more frugal/smarter about what I purchased. Despite only doing about 4 hours a day, I still was able to crack the 98th percentile after 5 months of studying. You aren't having trouble because you are poor, its because you don't want to put in the work required to do well on the LSAT and are looking for an easy way out. Hopefully Harvard works out for you, because if the one school you will be able to apply to dings you, you'll be shit out of luck.