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Hi all,

During my junior year, I was exchanged to an ivy league school for a semester. Because I knew that my home school would only give me pass or fail for my grades over there, I took courses that I was interested in but not related to my major and didn't score high. The GPA shown on my exchange transmit is not pretty. Will it hurt my application?

The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

pleasesendhelp wrote:The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

That's not actually what the OP was describing, if I'm reading it correctly.

OP: Are you saying that you have an actual transcript from the ivy league school with letter grades? I'm relatively certain that LSAC has to take that into account. However, it sounds like the courses also appear on your main transcript, so you may want to call LSAC to see what the deal is there.

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

That's not actually what the OP was describing, if I'm reading it correctly.

OP: Are you saying that you have an actual transcript from the ivy league school with letter grades? I'm relatively certain that LSAC has to take that into account. However, it sounds like the courses also appear on your main transcript, so you may want to call LSAC to see what the deal is there.

It's misleading since the OP says they only received pass or fail grades for the exchange courses, but then says they did not score well. So there's no telling whether they got a "Pass" but with a C- or received a "Fail"

You're right though. It depends on what's on the transcript. If on the transcript it's a F, or Fail it'll hurt you. If its a P, or Pass then it means nothing. If there's a grade...then the grade given for the courses will be converted based on a 4.0 scale.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's on your "main" transcript or not. You have to submit transcripts from every institution that awarded even a fraction of a credit to LSAC. Even if the exchange courses do show up on your main transcript, you have to submit an additional transcript from the school that gave you the exchange credit.

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

That's not actually what the OP was describing, if I'm reading it correctly.

OP: Are you saying that you have an actual transcript from the ivy league school with letter grades? I'm relatively certain that LSAC has to take that into account. However, it sounds like the courses also appear on your main transcript, so you may want to call LSAC to see what the deal is there.

Sorry for confusing you all. I sent two transcripts to LSAC, one is my main transcript, only showing 4 passes for my exchange semester. The other transcript is from the exchange school, showing letter grades and converted grades based on a 4.0 scale. I scored a C during my exchange, which makes my cumulative gpa merely above 3 for that semester.

pleasesendhelp wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

That's not actually what the OP was describing, if I'm reading it correctly.

OP: Are you saying that you have an actual transcript from the ivy league school with letter grades? I'm relatively certain that LSAC has to take that into account. However, it sounds like the courses also appear on your main transcript, so you may want to call LSAC to see what the deal is there.

It's misleading since the OP says they only received pass or fail grades for the exchange courses, but then says they did not score well. So there's no telling whether they got a "Pass" but with a C- or received a "Fail"

You're right though. It depends on what's on the transcript. If on the transcript it's a F, or Fail it'll hurt you. If its a P, or Pass then it means nothing. If there's a grade...then the grade given for the courses will be converted based on a 4.0 scale.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's on your "main" transcript or not. You have to submit transcripts from every institution that awarded even a fraction of a credit to LSAC. Even if the exchange courses do show up on your main transcript, you have to submit an additional transcript from the school that gave you the exchange credit.

Thanks for the explanations. I submitted both, my main transcript and an exchange transcript. On my main transcript, I only received 4 Passes for that semester. But on the exchange transcript, I had a C, and the converted gpa based on a 4.0 scale is just above 3. Do you think this will hurt my application?

Which school actually granted credit?

Moss wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

That's not actually what the OP was describing, if I'm reading it correctly.

OP: Are you saying that you have an actual transcript from the ivy league school with letter grades? I'm relatively certain that LSAC has to take that into account. However, it sounds like the courses also appear on your main transcript, so you may want to call LSAC to see what the deal is there.

It's misleading since the OP says they only received pass or fail grades for the exchange courses, but then says they did not score well. So there's no telling whether they got a "Pass" but with a C- or received a "Fail"

You're right though. It depends on what's on the transcript. If on the transcript it's a F, or Fail it'll hurt you. If its a P, or Pass then it means nothing. If there's a grade...then the grade given for the courses will be converted based on a 4.0 scale.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's on your "main" transcript or not. You have to submit transcripts from every institution that awarded even a fraction of a credit to LSAC. Even if the exchange courses do show up on your main transcript, you have to submit an additional transcript from the school that gave you the exchange credit.

Thanks for the explanations. I submitted both, my main transcript and an exchange transcript. On my main transcript, I only received 4 Passes for that semester. But on the exchange transcript, I had a C, and the converted gpa based on a 4.0 scale is just above 3. Do you think this will hurt my application?

To be honest with you, speculation over what will hurt your application or not in terms of your GPA is kind of pointless until you get your calculated LSAC GPA. Once you get the final calculation it will be clear what the law schools will see and then you can make an informed estimation on what your chances are. Law schools will see your transcripts and the grades but all they care about is the LSAC GPA.

I, and a million others, have done the same thing of worrying about periods of poor undergraduate performance, but save yourself the stress and wait it out. To answer your question though, one extra C will have a near negligible effect on your application unless it drops you from a 3.0 to a 2.9.

pleasesendhelp wrote:

Moss wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

pleasesendhelp wrote:The policy on pass/fail courses is that a pass means absolutely nothing and a fail will be counted as a 0. So if you have an F or Fail on your transcript it will hurt your LSAC GPA

That's not actually what the OP was describing, if I'm reading it correctly.

OP: Are you saying that you have an actual transcript from the ivy league school with letter grades? I'm relatively certain that LSAC has to take that into account. However, it sounds like the courses also appear on your main transcript, so you may want to call LSAC to see what the deal is there.

It's misleading since the OP says they only received pass or fail grades for the exchange courses, but then says they did not score well. So there's no telling whether they got a "Pass" but with a C- or received a "Fail"

You're right though. It depends on what's on the transcript. If on the transcript it's a F, or Fail it'll hurt you. If its a P, or Pass then it means nothing. If there's a grade...then the grade given for the courses will be converted based on a 4.0 scale.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's on your "main" transcript or not. You have to submit transcripts from every institution that awarded even a fraction of a credit to LSAC. Even if the exchange courses do show up on your main transcript, you have to submit an additional transcript from the school that gave you the exchange credit.

Thanks for the explanations. I submitted both, my main transcript and an exchange transcript. On my main transcript, I only received 4 Passes for that semester. But on the exchange transcript, I had a C, and the converted gpa based on a 4.0 scale is just above 3. Do you think this will hurt my application?

To be honest with you, speculation over what will hurt your application or not in terms of your GPA is kind of pointless until you get your calculated LSAC GPA. Once you get the final calculation it will be clear what the law schools will see and then you can make an informed estimation on what your chances are. Law schools will see your transcripts and the grades but all they care about is the LSAC GPA.

I, and a million others, have done the same thing of worrying about periods of poor undergraduate performance, but save yourself the stress and wait it out. To answer your question though, one extra C will have a near negligible effect on your application unless it drops you from a 3.0 to a 2.9.

I forgot to mention that I'm international. So LSAC will only report Above Average for my main transcript and 3.1 for my exchange transcript. The only numeric GPA law schools can see is the exchange one with a low score.

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

That's a pretty major detail to leave out.

Just see what happens when you actually plug these in to LSAC, because I'm extremely confused about where you're getting the actual credit granted. If your transcript from the ivy league school actually reflects credit being given, then it will most likely count. But if your home institution was the one giving you credit for attending the ivy league, it sounds like the letter grades wouldn't factor in.

Just give LSAC your data (because you don't have a choice) and see what happens.

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

That's a pretty major detail to leave out.

Just see what happens when you actually plug these in to LSAC, because I'm extremely confused about where you're getting the actual credit granted. If your transcript from the ivy league school actually reflects credit being given, then it will most likely count. But if your home institution was the one giving you credit for attending the ivy league, it sounds like the letter grades wouldn't factor in.

Just give LSAC your data (because you don't have a choice) and see what happens.

I should have mentioned that I'm international and thought I did so.

While, LSAC reported both: an academy summary report (for the exchange) and a JD Foreign CAS evaluation (for my main transcript).

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

That's a pretty major detail to leave out.

Just see what happens when you actually plug these in to LSAC, because I'm extremely confused about where you're getting the actual credit granted. If your transcript from the ivy league school actually reflects credit being given, then it will most likely count. But if your home institution was the one giving you credit for attending the ivy league, it sounds like the letter grades wouldn't factor in.

Just give LSAC your data (because you don't have a choice) and see what happens.

I should have mentioned that I'm international and thought I did so.

While, LSAC reported both: an academy summary report (for the exchange) and a JD Foreign CAS evaluation (for my main transcript).

But what's your LSAC GPA? Is it just the "above average" rating (or whatever your international grades translated to)?

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

That's a pretty major detail to leave out.

Just see what happens when you actually plug these in to LSAC, because I'm extremely confused about where you're getting the actual credit granted. If your transcript from the ivy league school actually reflects credit being given, then it will most likely count. But if your home institution was the one giving you credit for attending the ivy league, it sounds like the letter grades wouldn't factor in.

Just give LSAC your data (because you don't have a choice) and see what happens.

I should have mentioned that I'm international and thought I did so.

While, LSAC reported both: an academy summary report (for the exchange) and a JD Foreign CAS evaluation (for my main transcript).

But what's your LSAC GPA? Is it just the "above average" rating (or whatever your international grades translated to)?

I had two PDFs from LSAC, one with a numeric cumulative GPA (for the exchange) and one with Above Average for my main transcript. I'm clueless about which is the LSAC GPA.

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

That's a pretty major detail to leave out.

Just see what happens when you actually plug these in to LSAC, because I'm extremely confused about where you're getting the actual credit granted. If your transcript from the ivy league school actually reflects credit being given, then it will most likely count. But if your home institution was the one giving you credit for attending the ivy league, it sounds like the letter grades wouldn't factor in.

Just give LSAC your data (because you don't have a choice) and see what happens.

I should have mentioned that I'm international and thought I did so.

While, LSAC reported both: an academy summary report (for the exchange) and a JD Foreign CAS evaluation (for my main transcript).

But what's your LSAC GPA? Is it just the "above average" rating (or whatever your international grades translated to)?

I had two PDFs from LSAC, one with a numeric cumulative GPA (for the exchange) and one with Above Average for my main transcript. I'm clueless about which is the LSAC GPA.

Your main institution is what counts so your Above Average rating is what law schools will use. The extra stuff will be seen but hold no weight UNLESS your exchange credits equal 60 credits or more. If they total at least 60 credits then only those credits will be used and your main transcript will hold no weight. Go see how many credits you have. That's what will determine what matters.

I'm an international student as well and my situation is very similar. Graduated from a South Korean uni but had about 20 credits from US schools before I moved to SK. I've called LSAC and scourged the Internet so you can take my word for it.

pleasesendhelp wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:

Moss wrote:

cavalier1138 wrote:Which school actually granted credit?

I'm international. My home school gave me Pass/Fail credits for my exchange study.

That's a pretty major detail to leave out.

Just see what happens when you actually plug these in to LSAC, because I'm extremely confused about where you're getting the actual credit granted. If your transcript from the ivy league school actually reflects credit being given, then it will most likely count. But if your home institution was the one giving you credit for attending the ivy league, it sounds like the letter grades wouldn't factor in.

Just give LSAC your data (because you don't have a choice) and see what happens.

I should have mentioned that I'm international and thought I did so.

While, LSAC reported both: an academy summary report (for the exchange) and a JD Foreign CAS evaluation (for my main transcript).

But what's your LSAC GPA? Is it just the "above average" rating (or whatever your international grades translated to)?

I had two PDFs from LSAC, one with a numeric cumulative GPA (for the exchange) and one with Above Average for my main transcript. I'm clueless about which is the LSAC GPA.

Your main institution is what counts so your Above Average rating is what law schools will use. The extra stuff will be seen but hold no weight UNLESS your exchange credits equal 60 credits or more. If they total at least 60 credits then only those credits will be used and your main transcript will hold no weight. Go see how many credits you have. That's what will determine what matters.

I'm an international student as well and my situation is very similar. Graduated from a South Korean uni but had about 20 credits from US schools before I moved to SK. I've called LSAC and scourged the Internet so you can take my word for it.

Thank you! This really helps a lot!

My exchange credits were only 12, so I think I will be fine. Also, I'm going to write an addendum to explain a little bit about the gpa. Is it a good idea?

Unless you have an incredibly compelling reason for your subpar GPA then you should not write an addendum specifically for your GPA. Legitimate reasons for underperformance are things like chronic disease, serious illness, documentable mental illness, and financial issues. Those reasons, and those reasons only, will allow for the addendum to be of any help. Another case would be if your gpa was garbage for a semester, then you performed exceptionally well and continued to perform well till the end, which signifies growth.

Trying to make your application perfect is good, but trying to explain away every little thing will likely serve to hurt you more than help.

pleasesendhelp wrote:Unless you have an incredibly compelling reason for your subpar GPA then you should not write an addendum specifically for your GPA. Legitimate reasons for underperformance are things like chronic disease, serious illness, documentable mental illness, and financial issues. Those reasons, and those reasons only, will allow for the addendum to be of any help. Another case would be if your gpa was garbage for a semester, then you performed exceptionally well and continued to perform well till the end, which signifies growth.

Trying to make your application perfect is good, but trying to explain away every little thing will likely serve to hurt you more than help.

Thanks! Really appreciated it.