Top Law Schools

Hello,

I have several questions regarding applying to law schools.

I would like to give you a bit of my history so you can see where I'm coming from and what my concerns are.

I'm an international student currently 25 years old. I went to high school, undergraduate and graduate schools in the states.

I am currently in a physics PhD program but had a change of heart and am considering walking away with a Masters.

I have a dual degree in math and physics with an ugpa at 3.79. Both my undergraduate and graduate schools are well known (both ivy leagues ,respected overall but especially so in physics).

Unfortunately, I most likely will have to go back to my home country and serve in their military as a physics instructor for 3 years before actually going to law school.

1. Since I've been in school all my life up to this point, I have zero work experience. I suppose serving in the military as a physics instructor is somewhat of a work experience albeit unconventional. How do law schools generally look at military experience? Can it mitigate or even entirely make up for my lack of work experience?


2. At what point does age become a negative factor in law school admissions and job placement? I hear that law schools start looking at applicants' ages unfavorably once it goes past a certain point. I was wondering what that point is. I was initially thinking of completing my PhD, serve in the military for 3 years and then go to law school, in which case I will have been about 32-33 years old by the time i enroll in law school. Is having a PhD on one's resume giving a boost in terms of law school admissions and job placement at all? If so, is the boost big enough to offset the negative of being a somewhat unconventionally old applicant?

3. How helpful is the prestige of your previous schools? I would like to shoot for T14 and will do whatever I can to maximize my chances at the upper echelons. i see that my undergraduate GPA is in the low 25th percentile for quite a few of them. Obviously my undergraduate GPA isn't ideal but is it solid enough that It won't be the cause of a potential downfall?

4. Just after quick scanning, I learned that the total number of law school applications has gone up quite a bit this year and that it was especially hard for international students. I, too, am an international student, but I did all my schooling in the states. Are my degrees from american institutions going to help me in this respect at all? Do you see the upward trend in the total number of applications and overall LSAT score competitiveness continuing from this point forward?

Thank you so much in advance.

Admissions is mostly GPA/LSAT. Finishing a Phd wouldn't provide much of a boost and wouldn't be worth the time if only done with an eye toward law school IMO. Practicing IP may be a different story, but I'm not too sure about that path.

Your age will not be an issue at all.

You'll need an LSAT score before you can do much more assessment. Practice hard my friend.

blackwidow wrote:Hello,

I have several questions regarding applying to law schools.

I would like to give you a bit of my history so you can see where I'm coming from and what my concerns are.

I'm an international student currently 25 years old. I went to high school, undergraduate and graduate schools in the states.

I am currently in a physics PhD program but had a change of heart and am considering walking away with a Masters.

I have a dual degree in math and physics with an ugpa at 3.79. Both my undergraduate and graduate schools are well known (both ivy leagues ,respected overall but especially so in physics).

Unfortunately, I most likely will have to go back to my home country and serve in their military as a physics instructor for 3 years before actually going to law school.

1. Since I've been in school all my life up to this point, I have zero work experience. I suppose serving in the military as a physics instructor is somewhat of a work experience albeit unconventional. How do law schools generally look at military experience? Can it mitigate or even entirely make up for my lack of work experience?


2. At what point does age become a negative factor in law school admissions and job placement? I hear that law schools start looking at applicants' ages unfavorably once it goes past a certain point. I was wondering what that point is. I was initially thinking of completing my PhD, serve in the military for 3 years and then go to law school, in which case I will have been about 32-33 years old by the time i enroll in law school. Is having a PhD on one's resume giving a boost in terms of law school admissions and job placement at all? If so, is the boost big enough to offset the negative of being a somewhat unconventionally old applicant?

3. How helpful is the prestige of your previous schools? I would like to shoot for T14 and will do whatever I can to maximize my chances at the upper echelons. i see that my undergraduate GPA is in the low 25th percentile for quite a few of them. Obviously my undergraduate GPA isn't ideal but is it solid enough that It won't be the cause of a potential downfall?

4. Just after quick scanning, I learned that the total number of law school applications has gone up quite a bit this year and that it was especially hard for international students. I, too, am an international student, but I did all my schooling in the states. Are my degrees from american institutions going to help me in this respect at all? Do you see the upward trend in the total number of applications and overall LSAT score competitiveness continuing from this point forward?

Thank you so much in advance.

1) That work experience will be beneficial to your application. Whether or not it's in the legal field, having work experience is beneficial to your application. I'm not sure how military experience in particular will be perceived, but it should help, if anything.

2) There are plenty of older students in law school, and your age isn't high enough to make you an outlier as a law school applicant. As for ageism within the legal field, I feel like it's usually exaggerated on forums like these, though I am no expert. Common sense dictates that if anything, it's on an employer by employer basis.

3) I'm not sure what statistics you're looking at - your UGPA is excellent, and in the upper echelon for a lot of the T14. A 3.79 is great - if you can pull a 170+, your chances at some T14 acceptance is guaranteed, potentially the T6 as well.

4) Law school applications did go up this year, but it wasn't by a huge amount. In addition, they're still much lower than they were before the 08 recession. I think this year was a case of the applications bottoming out, rather than rebounding significantly. It's hard to say where they'll be in 3 year

International students tend to be harder to evaluate since it can be tricky to compare the standards of many international schools with that of American schools. The fact that you did your schooling in the states alleviates this issue and is a good sign.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about your prospects. If you can pull a good LSAT score, you're chances at getting into an elite school are very high. Just study hard and get your apps in early in the cycle.

Blueprint Mithun wrote:

blackwidow wrote:Hello,

I have several questions regarding applying to law schools.

I would like to give you a bit of my history so you can see where I'm coming from and what my concerns are.

I'm an international student currently 25 years old. I went to high school, undergraduate and graduate schools in the states.

I am currently in a physics PhD program but had a change of heart and am considering walking away with a Masters.

I have a dual degree in math and physics with an ugpa at 3.79. Both my undergraduate and graduate schools are well known (both ivy leagues ,respected overall but especially so in physics).

Unfortunately, I most likely will have to go back to my home country and serve in their military as a physics instructor for 3 years before actually going to law school.

1. Since I've been in school all my life up to this point, I have zero work experience. I suppose serving in the military as a physics instructor is somewhat of a work experience albeit unconventional. How do law schools generally look at military experience? Can it mitigate or even entirely make up for my lack of work experience?


2. At what point does age become a negative factor in law school admissions and job placement? I hear that law schools start looking at applicants' ages unfavorably once it goes past a certain point. I was wondering what that point is. I was initially thinking of completing my PhD, serve in the military for 3 years and then go to law school, in which case I will have been about 32-33 years old by the time i enroll in law school. Is having a PhD on one's resume giving a boost in terms of law school admissions and job placement at all? If so, is the boost big enough to offset the negative of being a somewhat unconventionally old applicant?

3. How helpful is the prestige of your previous schools? I would like to shoot for T14 and will do whatever I can to maximize my chances at the upper echelons. i see that my undergraduate GPA is in the low 25th percentile for quite a few of them. Obviously my undergraduate GPA isn't ideal but is it solid enough that It won't be the cause of a potential downfall?

4. Just after quick scanning, I learned that the total number of law school applications has gone up quite a bit this year and that it was especially hard for international students. I, too, am an international student, but I did all my schooling in the states. Are my degrees from american institutions going to help me in this respect at all? Do you see the upward trend in the total number of applications and overall LSAT score competitiveness continuing from this point forward?

Thank you so much in advance.

1) That work experience will be beneficial to your application. Whether or not it's in the legal field, having work experience is beneficial to your application. I'm not sure how military experience in particular will be perceived, but it should help, if anything.

2) There are plenty of older students in law school, and your age isn't high enough to make you an outlier as a law school applicant. As for ageism within the legal field, I feel like it's usually exaggerated on forums like these, though I am no expert. Common sense dictates that if anything, it's on an employer by employer basis.

3) I'm not sure what statistics you're looking at - your UGPA is excellent, and in the upper echelon for a lot of the T14. A 3.79 is great - if you can pull a 170+, your chances at some T14 acceptance is guaranteed, potentially the T6 as well.

4) Law school applications did go up this year, but it wasn't by a huge amount. In addition, they're still much lower than they were before the 08 recession. I think this year was a case of the applications bottoming out, rather than rebounding significantly. It's hard to say where they'll be in 3 year

International students tend to be harder to evaluate since it can be tricky to compare the standards of many international schools with that of American schools. The fact that you did your schooling in the states alleviates this issue and is a good sign.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about your prospects. If you can pull a good LSAT score, you're chances at getting into an elite school are very high. Just study hard and get your apps in early in the cycle.

Thank you so much for the input.

I should have been more specific about the schools for which I feel my ugpa is rather on the low side.

I was looking at Harvard Yale and Columbia. For Yale, I seem to be below the 25th percentile and for Harvard above the 25th percentile but only by the skin of my teeth.

I repeatedly hear that it's all about your gpa at face value and not about the difficulty of your major, but is there a way i can make my dual degree in math and physics as a strong selling point?

blackwidow wrote:
Thank you so much for the input.

I should have been more specific about the schools for which I feel my ugpa is rather on the low side.

I was looking at Harvard Yale and Columbia. For Yale, I seem to be below the 25th percentile and for Harvard above the 25th percentile but only by the skin of my teeth.

I repeatedly hear that it's all about your gpa at face value and not about the difficulty of your major, but is there a way i can make my dual degree in math and physics as a strong selling point?

That last bit is not true. A GPA in something rigorous like a hard science or engineering is definitely looked at as being more rigorous than one in a social science or communications, as examples (not to insult those majors, but this is generally true). So having math and physics majors is definitely a boon to you - physics majors are generally considered smart people in particular. They'll also be looking at your full transcripts, so they'll be able to look at the full range of the courses you took in order to judge the rigor of your degree.

Yes, the numbers are important, but people here sometimes tend to oversimplify the process and boil it down to just that. These are elite schools who hire people to specifically work in their admissions committees. They have reputations to uphold, and they're serious about their jobs. They're not just picking out the highest numbers and throwing the rest in a fire.

Yale is extremely selective and it's very hard to judge anyone's chances of getting in there, though with a high LSAT score you definitely have a shot. If you can pull a 172/173+, you've got a strong chance at Harvard, and are very likely to get into Columbia. The closer you get to 180, the more weight that LSAT score will carry. So the bottom line is to do as well on the LSAT as possible.

There's ample evidence that raw GPA regardless of major is what matters. When your future law school sends your stats to USNWR for USNWR to plug into their rankings formula, they're not telling USNWR your major. Adcomms hold crisis meetings when they drop in the rankings, so yea they take their jobs seriously.

Doesn't hurt to play up your background, but it is most likely to be a fringe factor.