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Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:17 pm
by Sciencemeetslaw
Hello everyone!
I need some advice on choosing a law school.
Recently I have been admitted by U of Maryland, and,
1) I would like to hear what are your thoughts about this school, I terms of job prospects, salary and reputation? I like the Baltimore location, and I will be happy working in the east coast, such as in Washington DC. So far I believe that this the best school I have from my accepted school list, as the other law schools that have accepted are tier 2, such as American, Georgia State, Houston, Chicago-Kent, Penn State.
2) Would you agree with me on Maryland being the best option?
I have also been waitlisted at William and Mary, Wake Forest, Washington and Lee, Indiana Maurer Bloomington, UC Hastings, William Mary, U of Illinois, Tulane, U of Richmond, U of Iowa, Northeastern.
3) Assuming that I can get off from the waitlists for all of these schools, how should I prioritize which school to choose as top choice law school to attend?
Personally I care about the ranking, reputation and job prospects/salary the most. But I also prefer relatively bigger cities, and I can forgive some ranking for a better location.
Thank you very much in advance for the suggestions!!
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:24 pm
by pancakes3
GPA/LSAT?
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:27 pm
by Sciencemeetslaw
pancakes3 wrote:GPA/LSAT?
Is this important in choosing which school to attend as a priority?
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:29 pm
by mvp99
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:31 pm
by pancakes3
Sciencemeetslaw wrote:pancakes3 wrote:GPA/LSAT?
Is this important in choosing which school to attend as a priority?
Do you think it's not?
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:32 pm
by PeanutsNJam
Ranking doesn't matter and reputation will be identical for all of the schools you listed. Nobody's going to go "Oh wow William and Mary, good thing you didn't go to a prole school like Maryland." People are going to treat the two the same.
Your job prospects at each school would be likely identical. Up to 20% chance of biglaw at UIUC and as low as <10% at other schools, with a modest (50-60%) chance of any full time long term JD required job. If you don't get biglaw, your salary will be anywhere between 45k and 90k (45-60k being the most probably by far).
For maryland, put it this way: Would you bet $150,000 and 3 years of your life on a 6.8% chance of getting a job that pays more than 6 figures? Consider also that there's almost a 40% chance you end up unemployed and unemployable.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:33 pm
by LandMermaid
Sciencemeetslaw wrote:pancakes3 wrote:GPA/LSAT?
Is this important in choosing which school to attend as a priority?
Its incredibly important...
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:41 pm
by Hikikomorist
pancakes3 wrote:GPA/LSAT?
We don't even need this to know that the correct answer is probably for OP to retake/reapply/not attend law school.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:43 pm
by Sciencemeetslaw
pancakes3 wrote:Sciencemeetslaw wrote:pancakes3 wrote:GPA/LSAT?
Is this important in choosing which school to attend as a priority?
Do you think it's not?
If I get accepted into all of them, why would i bother considering my LSAT/GPA? I don't think that these would play any factor in choosing a school anymore if all the waitlisted achools accept me.
I'm trying to make a hypothetical situation as in, if all schools accept me, which one should I choose as a top, second, third priority?
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:45 pm
by WheatThins
These choices aren't very good. Probably should retake the lsat or do something else.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:53 pm
by grades??
These are all not great options and you should either retake or not go.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 2:55 pm
by Sciencemeetslaw
WheatThins wrote:These choices aren't very good. Probably should retake the lsat or do something else.
But I thought that U of Illinois and William Mary are considered good law schools? I've read the TLS.com introduction of each law school, and they said that these are good ones. They even said that U of Maryland provides the best legal education in the state of Maryland.
But maybe I am wrong, as I not not that familiar with this. I know that many of you here are much more knowledgable than me, which is why I am asking for your help and suggestions. But if you think that schools including Willian Mary, Illinois, are not good, which law schools would you think are good enough? If I am assuming correctly, would you mean that ONLY T-14 are worth going and good enough? And that if I don't get into one of them, I should just not go to law school?
Sorry if I am asking so many questions. I am an international student, and in my home country, schools like William and Mary, Illinois are considered very good schools. Probably not as good as the Ivy leagues, but still are good options.
Thank you for everyone's patience and help!
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:00 pm
by hairbear7
What is your gpa/lsat?
What kind of law do you want to practice (big law, big gov, DA/PD, small firm etc.)
How much will the total cost of attendance be for each school?
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:02 pm
by grades??
Sciencemeetslaw wrote:WheatThins wrote:These choices aren't very good. Probably should retake the lsat or do something else.
But I thought that U of Illinois and William Mary are considered good law schools? I've read the TLS.com introduction of each law school, and they said that these are good ones. They even said that U of Maryland provides the best legal education in the state of Maryland.
But maybe I am wrong, as I not not that familiar with this. I know that many of you here are much more knowledgable than me, which is why I am asking for your help and suggestions. But if you think that schools including Willian Mary, Illinois, are not good, which law schools would you think are good enough? If I am assuming correctly, would you mean that ONLY T-14 are worth going and good enough? And that if I don't get into one of them, I should just not go to law school?
Sorry if I am asking so many questions. I am an international student, and in my home country, schools like William and Mary, Illinois are considered very good schools. Probably not as good as the Ivy leagues, but still are good options.
Thank you for everyone's patience and help!
You realize as an international it is really hard to stay in the US after getting a JD right? You need to get sponsored and it isn't easy from my understanding.
Second- Sure Maryland is the best law school in the state, out of two law schools. Both UMD and Baltimore are not great law schools, you have <50% of ever being employed with a JD from either school.
You really need to figure out what you want to do with your degree and how realistic it is from any of these choices.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:07 pm
by barkschool
WheatThins wrote:These choices aren't very good. Probably should retake the lsat or do something else.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:08 pm
by Sciencemeetslaw
hairbear7 wrote:What is your gpa/lsat?
What kind of law do you want to practice (big law, big gov, DA/PD, small firm etc.)
How much will the total cost of attendance be for each school?
Of course I would love to practice in BigLaw, but not everyone would be able to do that. I am not interested in working for the government. I am a student with a science background, and I would like to study IP law. Since I am an international student, I do not 100% intent to practice in the US, but i do want to leave the US option open.
I am from Hong Kong, so if any of you have any thoughts about practicing in mainland China/Hong Kong/Taiwan with a JD, I would appreciate your comments very much!
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:38 pm
by mornincounselor
Every State has a best law school in that state, it's not very impressive (and it's irrational--the second or third best school in some states is much better than the best school in other states).
The reason your hypo fails is because you are not thinking about the scholarship money. Just getting into these schools doesn't make them a good deal. That's why GPA and LSAT are so critical. If you are a 2.0 165 applicant vs a 4.0 153 that changes the calculus significantly (because it affects the amount of extra money you can get out of a retake, and GPA is generally a fair proxy for your options outside the law i.e. opportunity costs.)
Attending the best school in a state can be good if you (1) only want to practice in that state in a small circle around that particular school, (2) you are willing to accept nearly any job no matter how poor the pay is, (3) you have significant scholarship money which makes the loans you will take be manageable with the previously mentioned poor salary, (4) your options outside of law school are so bad that taking out $100k in loans for a $50k job is a step up, and (5) you are willing, ready, and able to hustle your ass off get that said job.
Unless your family is rich af and you just want to yolo it, then do you.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 3:51 pm
by heythatslife
You need to understand that your career options as an international student are very limited. It's either biglaw on the private side or big name NGO/international orgs on the public side. Other types of employers won't/aren't equipped to handle your immigration paperwork. I know, because I am an F1 myself and have many friends who are also in the same boat.
Schools like UMD don't give you a realistic shot at biglaw. Having a STEM background helps, but without advanced degrees in the right field it's still an uphill struggle. It used to be the case that native Chinese speakers with JDs were pretty rare in proportion to the demand, but there's been a huge uptick in JD students from HK/mainland at top law schools recently (I think HLS alone took in almost 30 for c/o 2018). I'm not an expert in the Chinese legal market but you can see these are the people you'll have to compete with. And while HK is a pretty big market for Asia, I understand it's driven by certain types of corporate/finance work, so I don't know how you'll be able to leverage your science background into that market. Taiwan is considered a backwater for international firms.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:35 pm
by Londonbear
Sciencemeetslaw wrote:WheatThins wrote:These choices aren't very good. Probably should retake the lsat or do something else.
But I thought that U of Illinois and William Mary are considered good law schools? I've read the TLS.com introduction of each law school, and they said that these are good ones. They even said that U of Maryland provides the best legal education in the state of Maryland.
But maybe I am wrong, as I not not that familiar with this. I know that many of you here are much more knowledgable than me, which is why I am asking for your help and suggestions. But if you think that schools including Willian Mary, Illinois, are not good, which law schools would you think are good enough? If I am assuming correctly, would you mean that ONLY T-14 are worth going and good enough? And that if I don't get into one of them, I should just not go to law school?
Sorry if I am asking so many questions. I am an international student, and in my home country, schools like William and Mary, Illinois are considered very good schools. Probably not as good as the Ivy leagues, but
still are good options.
Thank you for everyone's patience and help!
Still good options for what? For post-grad employment? And Maryland might be the best in the state, but there's 50 states, and if you want to work in DC post-grad biglaw, that's not happening from Maryland. Maybe William and Mary if you're #1 in the class. And if you're paying sticker for any of those schools, then it most definitely is not a good option. It shouldn't even be an option. If you want to stay in the states post-grad, then that's even harder, as the other posters have talked about sponsorships. It's not to say that ONLY T-14 is worth going. Even bottom T-14s are not worth going if you're going to pay sticker. Like Georgetown, which is the best school in DC is not worth paying sticker for, even if you want to work in DC post grad. Yes how much it costs should be that much of a consideration. This isn't undergrad. Your post-grad options will be much more limited depending on what school you come from. I can't speak to working in Asia afterwards, as I think in China you are limited in what you practice as a foreign lawyer, so I don't even know what advantage having a JD in the US will do for you. You should see first before you commit to any schools.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 4:37 pm
by LandMermaid
Sciencemeetslaw wrote:WheatThins wrote:These choices aren't very good. Probably should retake the lsat or do something else.
But I thought that U of Illinois and William Mary are considered good law schools? I've read the TLS.com introduction of each law school, and they said that these are good ones.
Schools write their own introductions- even terrible schools have favorable profiles. Also, Ivy League is meaningless after undergrad. Also also, you still haven't given us your GPA and LSAT, which we think is important because these are mediocre at best choices. If you have a 4.0 and a 160, the best thing to do is retake. If you've got a 175 and a 2.2, these might be your best options (or you should apply next cycle and hope you slide in somewhere as a lucky splitter.) If you have a 150 and a 2.8, you probably should not go to law school. It's a bad idea to say "these bad options are where I've gotten in, with some decent-ish waitlists that, if admitted, will likely cost so much that they're worse choices than my acceptances. Now tell me which of these not-great choices is the least not-great." You've come looking for advice; we are just trying to give the best advice we can
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 6:44 pm
by Mikey
What is the total COA for each of these schools?
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Sun May 01, 2016 8:40 pm
by splitterfromhell
This seems to have been a weird/bad cycle for international students. Retake the LSAT and reapply.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Mon May 02, 2016 1:46 am
by Rigo
Don't do it dude.
These schools should not be attended without very modest goals and full or near full scholarships.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:58 am
by aliyblue
William & Mary 2016 grad here. I'm at a V20 firm in DC, and can count about 20 people my year who also went DC biglaw. There are probably another 35-40 or so folks in my class who are at AmLaw 200 firms in other cities. These are facts. That's definitely not as much as Georgetown or UVA, but you definitely don't need to be "#1 in the class" to get biglaw from W&M.
Re: Which law school to pick
Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:05 pm
by mjb447
aliyblue wrote:William & Mary 2016 grad here. I'm at a V20 firm in DC, and can count about 20 people my year who also went DC biglaw. There are probably another 35-40 or so folks in my class who are at AmLaw 200 firms in other cities. These are facts. That's definitely not as much as Georgetown or UVA, but you definitely don't need to be "#1 in the class" to get biglaw from W&M.
Thank goodness you revived this thread to make that correction.