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Graduating a "lower ivy" with a 3.9 , 174. Accepted to Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. I'm thinking of joining the army via OCS to be commissioned as an officer. I believe in service to the country and am genuinely interested in spending 4 years (or more) stationed in no man's land. But, I've worked so hard these past 4 years and took on a ton of debt. I'm sick of academia and don't want to spend 3 more years in the class room spending tons of money. What should I do? I'm a woman and I will not age well...

So.... Army for 4 years and then law school or law school for more academia and debt?

Pinos148 wrote:Graduating a "lower ivy" with a 3.9 , 174. Accepted to Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. I'm thinking of joining the army via OCS to be commissioned as an officer. I believe in service to the country and am genuinely interested in spending 4 years (or more) stationed in no man's land. But, I've worked so hard these past 4 years and took on a ton of debt. I'm sick of academia and don't want to spend 3 more years in the class room spending tons of money. What should I do? I'm a woman and I will not age well...

So.... Army for 4 years and then law school or law school for more academia and debt?

It seems to me that you have answered your own question.

I mean, should I go directly to law school or commission in the army? After the army, I have other exit options besides law school.

Yea man,

Go play army for a little while, do infantry or something, then go to law school for free. You might even get a deployment in. After a few years of the army, you'll be ready to embrace sitting in a classroom and being responsible only for yourself.

If the debt load worries you and you really are sick of academica, then apply for OCS. I am biased to the Air Force, but all of the services will provide you with valuable work and leadership experience as an officer. If you serve 4 years, you will be eligible for 100% of the G.I. Bill and can then use that with the Yellow Ribbon program to attend Harvard or another school of your choice. You can also pay down the debt you currently have and potentially graduate from Harvard Law in your late 20s/early 30s debt free.

Pinos148 wrote:Graduating a "lower ivy" with a 3.9 , 174. Accepted to Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. I'm thinking of joining the army via OCS to be commissioned as an officer. I believe in service to the country and am genuinely interested in spending 4 years (or more) stationed in no man's land. ButMoreover, I've worked so hard these past 4 years and took on a ton of debt. I'm sick of academia and don't want to spend 3 more years in the class room spending tons of money. What should I do? I'm a woman and I will not age well...

So.... Army for 4 years and then law school or law school for more academia and debt?

You've given ample support for joining the army, none for law school. Seems like the answer is clear.

Pinos148 wrote:I'm a woman and I will not age well...

Honestly, I might consider not going through either OCS or law school if this is how you feel about yourself right now. Both will break you down, albeit in very different ways, and if you're willing to stick this self-reflection into a public forum, you could probably just use some time off generally. I can't imagine you are without any other options given your high GPA from an Ivy undergrad, and I would encourage you to look at those options and take some time to reflect and learn about yourself.

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deepseapartners wrote:

Pinos148 wrote:I'm a woman and I will not age well...

Honestly, I might consider not going through either OCS or law school if this is how you feel about yourself right now. Both will break you down, albeit in very different ways, and if you're willing to stick this self-reflection into a public forum, you could probably just use some time off generally. I can't imagine you are without any other options given your high GPA from an Ivy undergrad, and I would encourage you to look at those options and take some time to reflect and learn about yourself.

I just don't have the money for time for self reflection. It's army or law school :\

I'm a USMC veteran about to graduate from UPenn. I've been admitted to Harvard Law as well, so I can speak a bit to both of your desires. First of all, if you want to be in the military, act on it now. It's a desire that won't go away, but the window of opportunity to fulfill that desire is a small one. Second, life in law school will be a bit easier after the military. Harvard, at least for now, is completely free to veterans under the GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon and academic life seems relatively less stressful post-military.

Get real though, you seem like you know the answer you are hoping for.

Also, join the Marines, not the Army. I was in Marine Corps special operations for four years and absolutely loved it. When I went through Army airborne school I got a small glimpse of the big Army world and was happy to be a Marine.

Best of luck.

Pinos148 wrote:

deepseapartners wrote:

Pinos148 wrote:I'm a woman and I will not age well...

Honestly, I might consider not going through either OCS or law school if this is how you feel about yourself right now. Both will break you down, albeit in very different ways, and if you're willing to stick this self-reflection into a public forum, you could probably just use some time off generally. I can't imagine you are without any other options given your high GPA from an Ivy undergrad, and I would encourage you to look at those options and take some time to reflect and learn about yourself.

I just don't have the money for time for self reflection. It's army or law school :\

From your brief bio, you don't seem interested in law school. Don't go just because its an option, go if its what you really want to do.

On the other hand, you seem serious about the Army but for some reason are still doubting it. Take a little bit of time and weigh army v civilian careers. You shouldn't join the army just because you don't want to take on debt and study.

Don't go army or Marines. There is a huge amount if dysfunction right now in the army (and presumably also the Marines). Go Air force or Coast Guard. Those guys have it made.

But seriously, based on what I saw in my time serving, I couldn't recommend the army to any woman right now.

David89 wrote: Also, join the Marines, not the Army. I was in Marine Corps special operations for four years and absolutely loved it. When I went through Army airborne school I got a small glimpse of the big Army world and was happy to be a Marine.

To be fair that's much more of a SOF vs. Conventional distinction than it is Army vs Marines. No one should ever judge the entire branch based on that 3 weeks of utter ridiculousness.

I enlisted for four years in the Marines between undergrad and law school and it was the best decision I ever made.


edit: although, there were certainly times it was questionable. Looking back now, though, I don't regret it for a second.

Pinos148 wrote:Graduating a "lower ivy" with a 3.9 , 174. Accepted to Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. I'm thinking of joining the army via OCS to be commissioned as an officer. I believe in service to the country and am genuinely interested in spending 4 years (or more) stationed in no man's land. But, I've worked so hard these past 4 years and took on a ton of debt. I'm sick of academia and don't want to spend 3 more years in the class room spending tons of money. What should I do? I'm a woman and I will not age well...

So.... Army for 4 years and then law school or law school for more academia and debt?

I was ROTC during my undergraduate and, rather than defer and enter law school prior to serving, I accepted my commission. I'm about to finish 4-years of service and doubt I could've made a better choice. The financial flexibility it provides you (presumably you would seek debt forgiveness alongside your paycheck) will make returning to school that much easier (you would effectively forfeit your right to the GI bill if you took the student loan forgiveness though).

The break in service definitely helps to reset your mind a bit and help you mature. While I didn't go to as rigorous a school as I'm sure you did, I did have three majors and never took less than 18-credits in addition to extra-curriculars and ROTC. Had I gone straight from academia to academia, I would've certainly burned out and, while I don't quite know yet, would certainly under-perform in law school relative to what I believe I'm capable of.

The opportunity to serve is great and, as an Army officer, I don't necessarily recommend the Army. As a few others have alluded, we aren't the best with women (especially the inevitable hostility that will arise when women take on combat roles). While the Marines seem to have more of a "F' it; we're all marines" attitude and the Navy/Air Force are better integrated, the Army seems to have a very real identity crisis with women. My recommendation would be to pursue either one of the other branches (I personally recommend the Air Force) and enjoy the opportunity to serve.

If you have any questions, feel free to message me.

This is flame when I read the part "I'm a woman and I will not age well..."

Prior Navy Officer chiming in to put in the obligatory plug for the Navy. Although in all honesty, I think the Coast Guard (Shallow Water Navy) does some really cool stuff too.

Jchance wrote:This is flame when I read the part "I'm a woman and I will not age well..."

Also the OP's username. "Pinos"...yea...a "woman"

Join the Army but make sure they guarantee you that you can be in whatever unit Rambo was in.

lymenheimer wrote:

Jchance wrote:This is flame when I read the part "I'm a woman and I will not age well..."

Also the OP's username. "Pinos"...yea...a "woman"

I'm definitely a woman. Interesting that even online I'm still questioned when I talk about joining the military. Anyway, what I'm saying is that these are the years that I'm at my most attractive. I do want to settle down eventually, so I'm being realistic.

lymenheimer wrote:

Jchance wrote:This is flame when I read the part "I'm a woman and I will not age well..."

Also the OP's username. "Pinos"...yea...a "woman"

I'm definitely a woman. Interesting that even online I'm still questioned when I talk about joining the military. Anyway, what I'm saying is that these are the years that I'm at my most attractive. I do want to settle down eventually, so I'm being realistic.

BDMPKT wrote:

Pinos148 wrote:Graduating a "lower ivy" with a 3.9 , 174. Accepted to Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. I'm thinking of joining the army via OCS to be commissioned as an officer. I believe in service to the country and am genuinely interested in spending 4 years (or more) stationed in no man's land. But, I've worked so hard these past 4 years and took on a ton of debt. I'm sick of academia and don't want to spend 3 more years in the class room spending tons of money. What should I do? I'm a woman and I will not age well...

So.... Army for 4 years and then law school or law school for more academia and debt?

I was ROTC during my undergraduate and, rather than defer and enter law school prior to serving, I accepted my commission. I'm about to finish 4-years of service and doubt I could've made a better choice. The financial flexibility it provides you (presumably you would seek debt forgiveness alongside your paycheck) will make returning to school that much easier (you would effectively forfeit your right to the GI bill if you took the student loan forgiveness though).

The break in service definitely helps to reset your mind a bit and help you mature. While I didn't go to as rigorous a school as I'm sure you did, I did have three majors and never took less than 18-credits in addition to extra-curriculars and ROTC. Had I gone straight from academia to academia, I would've certainly burned out and, while I don't quite know yet, would certainly under-perform in law school relative to what I believe I'm capable of.

The opportunity to serve is great and, as an Army officer, I don't necessarily recommend the Army. As a few others have alluded, we aren't the best with women (especially the inevitable hostility that will arise when women take on combat roles). While the Marines seem to have more of a "F' it; we're all marines" attitude and the Navy/Air Force are better integrated, the Army seems to have a very real identity crisis with women. My recommendation would be to pursue either one of the other branches (I personally recommend the Air Force) and enjoy the opportunity to serve.

If you have any questions, feel free to message me.

I was told that Army OCS gives you a better chance to choose your MOS. I'll defintely PM you.

Dcc617 wrote:Don't go army or Marines. There is a huge amount if dysfunction right now in the army (and presumably also the Marines). Go Air force or Coast Guard. Those guys have it made.

But seriously, based on what I saw in my time serving, I couldn't recommend the army to any woman right now.

What, specifically, did you see? I'm taller than most men, practically maxed my PTs, and I have leadership experience. I'm not necessarily worried that I won't be taken seriously or something similar.

Pinos148 wrote:

Dcc617 wrote:Don't go army or Marines. There is a huge amount if dysfunction right now in the army (and presumably also the Marines). Go Air force or Coast Guard. Those guys have it made.

But seriously, based on what I saw in my time serving, I couldn't recommend the army to any woman right now.

What, specifically, did you see? I'm taller than most men, practically maxed my PTs, and I have leadership experience. I'm not necessarily worried that I won't be taken seriously or something similar.

I don't want to go into it in depth, but there is a HUGE cultural problem with sexual assault and sexual harassment in the army. Like, rape survivors getting written up for adultery (with their rapists!) level of bad. I served for about four years as an officer and it seemed like there was some new scandal somewhere in the brigade every few months. God knows how much stuff happens that isn't reported.

Officers aren't immune either. If anything they're expected to "play the game."

Dcc617 wrote:

Pinos148 wrote:

Dcc617 wrote:Don't go army or Marines. There is a huge amount if dysfunction right now in the army (and presumably also the Marines). Go Air force or Coast Guard. Those guys have it made.

But seriously, based on what I saw in my time serving, I couldn't recommend the army to any woman right now.

What, specifically, did you see? I'm taller than most men, practically maxed my PTs, and I have leadership experience. I'm not necessarily worried that I won't be taken seriously or something similar.

I don't want to go into it in depth, but there is a HUGE cultural problem with sexual assault and sexual harassment in the army. Like, rape survivors getting written up for adultery (with their rapists!) level of bad. I served for about four years as an officer and it seemed like there was some new scandal somewhere in the brigade every few months. God knows how much stuff happens that isn't reported.

Officers aren't immune either. If anything they're expected to "play the game."

I'm with Johnny Bravo on this one. Like I said- the Army has a really bizarre identity crisis when it comes to women. It's not saying that your time in service will be unpleasant because you're a woman, just that you probably have a higher chance of dealing with some seriously disheartening (and potentially career damaging- not just your military career either) problems in the army versus an alternative branch of service.