Top Law Schools

I'm looking at the admitted student stats for HLS/YLS/SLS, and I'm a bit worried about my 3.84 GPA, which I see is below median at H and S and below 25% at Y.

The thing is, I graduated from a HYP undergrad, and getting median GPA or above (~3.9+) is very difficult, and getting in the 75% range at HLS/YLS/SLS is near impossible -- we're talking ~2 students out of the entire graduating class each year. Moreover, I see some max GPAs listed as 4.1 or 4.2 or something, which wasn't even a possibility at my school, which maxed at 4.0.

My question is: Will my GPA be treated more leniently than a GPA from, say, a state school? As far as I can tell, the professors at my undergrad had much higher standards for A's than at state schools, and it's much more difficult to be in the median or higher GPA range for HLS/YLS/SLS coming from a difficult undergrad like mine.

No, in that the school has to report your GPA as what it is to UNSWR, and doesn't get to say "but it was from a hard school!!"

But yes, there is some suggestion that people from the tip top undergrads get a little bit of lenience on this. I don't think you can quantify it, and I don't think it's fair to draw as stark a distinction between your school and generically "state schools" as you do (there are lots of hard schools and smart students everywhere). But it seems to help some.

Kind of a bummer moment when you find out that getting better grades in easier classes/against less qualified peers at a cheaper school is the way to go for law school.

Going to Penn State instead of Haverford, IU instead of Grinnell, UNC-Greensboro over Wake Forest, Ohio State over Oberlin, UT over Rice, etc. probably puts you in a better position if you know you want to do law school. You probably won't be pushed as hard or have as rewarding of an education, but in terms of GPA and finances you'd be a lot better off.

Ivies might be ok, but most small private liberal arts colleges are bad deals for future lawyers. The undergrad degree is valuable in some markets, but not for institutions concerned with USNWR rankings.

Based on your post, I'm guessing you went to Princeton, in which case, yes, you will certainly get a boost as they are well known for tough grading. Even if you went to H or Y, you probably will get a slight boost. There aren't a ton of stats on this, but what I've seen suggests that HYS applicants are able to get in to law schools with slightly lower GPA. Of course, who knows whether this is causation or just correlation (those applicants probably tend to have better soft factors, higher LSAT, etc)

GreatBraffsby wrote:Kind of a bummer moment when you find out that getting better grades in easier classes/against less qualified peers at a cheaper school is the way to go for law school.

Going to Penn State instead of Haverford, IU instead of Grinnell, UNC-Greensboro over Wake Forest, Ohio State over Oberlin, UT over Rice, etc. probably puts you in a better position if you know you want to do law school. You probably won't be pushed as hard or have as rewarding of an education, but in terms of GPA and finances you'd be a lot better off.

Ivies might be ok, but most small private liberal arts colleges are bad deals for future lawyers. The undergrad degree is valuable in some markets, but not for institutions concerned with USNWR rankings.

I went to a relatively prestigious/rigorous/whatever undergrad and often get median-pwned in law school classes at the hands of other law students with far less "rewarding" educations.

Maybe they weren't "pushed as hard" in UG but they repeatedly push my GPA down in law school.

Highly probable that I'm just dumb though.

BigZuck wrote:

GreatBraffsby wrote:Kind of a bummer moment when you find out that getting better grades in easier classes/against less qualified peers at a cheaper school is the way to go for law school.

Going to Penn State instead of Haverford, IU instead of Grinnell, UNC-Greensboro over Wake Forest, Ohio State over Oberlin, UT over Rice, etc. probably puts you in a better position if you know you want to do law school. You probably won't be pushed as hard or have as rewarding of an education, but in terms of GPA and finances you'd be a lot better off.

Ivies might be ok, but most small private liberal arts colleges are bad deals for future lawyers. The undergrad degree is valuable in some markets, but not for institutions concerned with USNWR rankings.

I went to a relatively prestigious/rigorous/whatever undergrad and often get median-pwned in law school classes at the hands of other law students with far less "rewarding" educations.

Maybe they weren't "pushed as hard" in UG but they repeatedly push my GPA down in law school.

Highly probable that I'm just dumb though.

It's okay because at least you're more "qualified".

Lmfao at HYP being "difficult" undergrad in terms of GPA. I had multiple classes with a 2.7 mean.

Sorry, I'll get off my STEM soap-box now...

I get it, though, 0.1 can mean a lot when you're talking HYS. Have you gotten your LDAS gpa yet? That's how students report gpas in excess of 4.0. It's not from their schools awarding that high of a gpa, its from the normalizing that LSAC does.

There is a rough way to translate your GPA to give you a little better sense in how schools might see your GPA.

In your LSAC account you can access your academic summary report, which allows you to see how your GPA and LSAT compare to other applicants from your school over the past five years (I think). At least that way, you can see if your 3.84 puts you in truly rarefied air for your school. I'd imagine that if a 3.84 translates to the 99th%ile GPA-wise from HYP, you'll benefit.

Also, HYP undergrads are strongly represented at HLS and YLS at least, so I'm definitely thinking they work it out somehow.

GreatBraffsby wrote:Kind of a bummer moment when you find out that getting better grades in easier classes/against less qualified peers at a cheaper school is the way to go for law school.

Going to Penn State instead of Haverford, IU instead of Grinnell, UNC-Greensboro over Wake Forest, Ohio State over Oberlin, UT over Rice, etc. probably puts you in a better position if you know you want to do law school. You probably won't be pushed as hard or have as rewarding of an education, but in terms of GPA and finances you'd be a lot better off.

Ivies might be ok, but most small private liberal arts colleges are bad deals for future lawyers. The undergrad degree is valuable in some markets, but not for institutions concerned with USNWR rankings.

I think there are a lot of assumptions going on in this post.

This should get fun.

I got into HYS with a 3.83.

And fuck you for saying that was easier from a state school, and this other asshole for saying that it was less hard or less rewarding.

emkay625 wrote:This should get fun.

I think you might be one of my poorly educated peers who pushed me down the curve. You weren't even Rice quality.

How dare you

BigZuck wrote:

emkay625 wrote:This should get fun.

I think you might be one of my poorly educated peers who pushed me down the curve. You weren't even Rice quality.

How dare you

Is rice a degree mill or something. I had never heard of that school before law school but now they are everywhere

xael wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

emkay625 wrote:This should get fun.

I think you might be one of my poorly educated peers who pushed me down the curve. You weren't even Rice quality.

How dare you

Is rice a degree mill or something. I had never heard of that school before law school but now they are everywhere

Exact opposite actually, one of the smallest class sizes of USNWR's top 20.

xael wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

emkay625 wrote:This should get fun.

I think you might be one of my poorly educated peers who pushed me down the curve. You weren't even Rice quality.

How dare you

Is rice a degree mill or something. I had never heard of that school before law school but now they are everywhere

They're basically the USC/WUSTL of UGs. As if being in the T18 was actually prestigious.

lulz everyone knows it's T15 or GTFO just like with law school rankings

No buffer for bad grades but there's some consensus that HYP get a bit of a bump. Also LOL at 3.84 being a bad GPA and you complaining about grade deflation.

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. I apologize if I set some drama off -- I didn't realize this was a touchy subject.

Mullens wrote:No buffer for bad grades but there's some consensus that HYP get a bit of a bump. Also LOL at 3.84 being a bad GPA and you complaining about grade deflation.

Nowhere did I say 3.84 is a bad GPA. In fact, it's a very good GPA at my undergrad. But that's precisely what worried me and what compelled me to make this thread -- a good GPA at my school is below median for admitted students at HYS (and even below 25% at Y!).

Mullens wrote:LOL at 3.84 being a bad GPA and you complaining about grade deflation.

I'm gonna venture a guess that OP is not at P, because they hard curve to a 3.3 and that's pretty well understood among all graduate school admissions offices.

Anyway, my anecdotal experience as an Ivy-undergrad --> T14 student is that there is some GPA leniency but that it's unquantifiable and not the same as a boost like your high school might have boosted your AP/IB grades.

You're totally screwed. Better start preparing for attendance at CCN with all the losers from, say, state schools.

BigZuck wrote:

emkay625 wrote:This should get fun.

I think you might be one of my poorly educated peers who pushed me down the curve. You weren't even Rice quality.

How dare you

Aren't we different class years? : D

And yes, plebian, public school blood runs through my veins. But we will rise up! *insert les miz gif here*

Wouldn't devry/Phoenix be tcr for an easy 4.0?

deepseapartners wrote:

Mullens wrote:LOL at 3.84 being a bad GPA and you complaining about grade deflation.

I'm gonna venture a guess that OP is not at P, because they hard curve to a 3.3 and that's pretty well understood among all graduate school admissions offices.

Anyway, my anecdotal experience as an Ivy-undergrad --> T14 student is that there is some GPA leniency but that it's unquantifiable and not the same as a boost like your high school might have boosted your AP/IB grades.

Actually, OP probably is at P because H and Y both practice rampant grade inflation. See:

http://yalecollege.yale.edu/sites/defau ... 201402.pdf

In the year since the grade distributions were made available, there has been an increase in the percent of A’s and A-’s issued in Yale College. In the fall of 2013 the percent was 68.3 versus 67.2 in the fall of 2012. In the spring of 2013 the percent was 69.5 versus 68.7 in the spring of 2012.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2013/ ... on-mode-a/

The median grade at Harvard College is an A-, and the most frequently awarded mark is an A, Dean of Undergraduate Education Jay M. Harris said on Tuesday afternoon, supporting suspicions that the College employs a softer grading standard than many of its peer institutions.

And yet...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... story.html

Though grade inflation has been a continuing topic of conversation at Harvard, the Crimson says, students think their top grades are fairly earned. Of this year’s graduating class, 72 percent think “grade inflation is not much of a problem or not a problem at all at Harvard,” according to the survey.

-

Fwiw my state school undergrad had curved classes and extreme grade deflation.

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