Please tell me anything at all about UNLV Forum

[landshoes]

It's extremely hard to predict how you're going to do in law school, even regardless of what kinds of strengths you bring. Law school exams really aren't research papers or argument essays - they're their own beast. You have to learn how to take them. (I have theories about which strengths/weaknesses in an application are more likely into success in law school, but they're probably self-serving.)

That said, I don't think it's fair to suggest that because the OP's partner gets a JD from a school with very little mobility means the OP has to presume they will be supporting them. People who strike out getting legal jobs don't shrivel up and die, or go on welfare. It may not be a fun process, but the vast majority of people end up getting some kind of job after the fact. The concern is whether whatever job you get will service your debt, but I think saying the OP will have to plan to support the two of them is overstating things.

(To be honest, my concern is more that it sounds like the OP and their partner are K-JD, but that's mostly me being ageist.)

Thank you, I'm sure my partner would not end up living on a futon and eating up all the gourmet chocolates I bought with my barrels of money (if I ever ended up at NYU or Chicago), even if he didn't work in the legal profession. But I am legitimately concerned about being pushed into the role of permanent primary breadwinner...not because he wants me to be, but because that's how I envision things playing out if I attend a T14 and he just follows me around. I would love for us to have equal qualifications and opportunities upon graduation from law school, which is one of many reasons why we both like UNLV...neither of us has to be the "trophy wife/husband" or feel pressure to work a ton of hours to provide for the both of us (and later children). But maybe that's unavoidable. I really don't know.

Sorry Nony, we are pretty K-JD...partner is 24 with 2 years of work experience, and I just turned 22. I know, we're babies. But I have absolutely loathed working gap-year jobs that I have no real interest in or room for advancement, and I'm extremely anxious to get into law school and lay the foundation for a professional career.

Sitting on a futon eating chocolate is not how I feel about women who are not the primary breadwinner, and that's not how I feel about him. But to a large extent, making large life decisions means you have to think about things like "which one of us has the potential to make more money" and "will one of us face under- or unemployment" and "whose career should we prioritize if we have to pick."

if you both go to law school, the career you should prioritize is 100% yours. There is nothing wrong with supporting your "life partner" if they're unemployed or underemployed, in fact, that's a big part of what being someone's partner is about. If you wouldn't be willing to commit to that aspect of a relationship, or consider it honestly, consider whether you're ready to determine your career based on this relationship.

In fact, you're already making the decision to prioritize one career over the other. You're just prioritizing his dreams and his career over yours. Which is silly because if either one of you has a vestigial career, it's him, not you. You have to get out of the "I'm a woman so my career is kind of optional and I don't need to think about it that hard if I can follow a dude around" mindset. I had it when I was 22 too; I'm not trying to be an asshole, it permeates our culture. But it's not realistic in your situation if he insists on going to law school.

And in fact, I'm quite sure he'd get a decent job if he couldn't find something in law, if he's smart and hard-working. But then I wonder why not just get that job now, while you go to law school, instead of you both going to law school right away at a school that won't do much for your career?

[A. Nony Mouse]

And, it is going to be an up-hill battle for you to get a job in Nevada. I don't have particular experience with that market, but I know in every interview I have had in LA/TX/Chi the first question I get from everyone is why I want to be there, and I have ties to all these markets. You don't have any ties to Nevada and it is a much much smaller market with less jobs. Why is a small/mid law firm going to hire you over a native? Even if you have great grades, it may be tough for you. And if it doesn't work out, then what? It is going to be harder to find something else. You have amazing numbers and can get full rides in the lower T-14. I know you don't want to do biglaw or bigfed or anything but who knows your plans might change.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but wrt to the above, you obviously can't go to school in all three of those markets. Going to the regional school in the market you want to be is a different experience than going back to a smaller market from a national school, and is really different with respect to ties (especially in a market that doesn't have a local T14).

That's not to sat that there aren't issues with the OP's plans, but I don't think ties have to be the primary one. If someone goes to a regional school determined to stay in that region, you can overcome that.

But like I said, I agree with a lot of what you said, especially about the possibility of the OP changing their mind (which includes about where they want to live).

[landshoes]

Also, OP, directly to your point about not wanting to have disparate incomes, I understand the impulse. It sucks to have different incomes in a family, and makes power dynamics wonky. But the solution to that is not for you to undersell yourself and cut off opportunities for you to make money.

It also makes zero sense for you to limit yourself so that you and he have the "same" opportunities. Again, this is like picking up an oxycontin habit because he has back pain. If you have better opportunities, use them to help him and make his life better (as I am sure he will do for you.) One of the ways you can make someone's life better is by having money.

I have to say, the hostility that some women have towards earning money will never cease to amaze me. Money is great. It's not evil. It's not bad. Everyone wants to have it because it makes life easier. And if you don't like it, guess what, you don't have to keep it.

I mean, you really can just go to a T-14 school and then take a job for 40k. Nothing would stop you from doing that. In fact, a lot of 40k jobs would be easier for you to get from a T-14.

EDITED TO ADD: If the roles were reversed, and he'd gotten into, say, Northwestern with a great scholarship, would you really ask him to go to UNLV?

[fliptrip]

It also makes zero sense for you to limit yourself so that you and he have the "same" opportunities. Again, this is like picking up an oxycontin habit because he has back pain. If you have better opportunities, use them to help him and make his life better (as I am sure he will do for you.) One of the ways you can make someone's life better is by having money.

More precisely, it would be like you going to the Doctor and having an excruciating rod put in your back so that you two will have the same issues. You'll be able to share the oxy, but you're going to resent him big time in five years when you think, "I had a perfectly good back and I screwed it up for this guy?!"

[xael]

O boy now I see why I was told to check out this thread.

TBH I stopped reading after the kjd reveal but OP, don't sacrifice your career prospects for someone when you are 22. If it's meant to be you'll stay together long distance. If it's not meant to be then it's not and at least you aren't stuck at UNLV. You worked hard for your gpa and LSAT, he is the one who should be making sacrifices, not you. Law school isn't undergrad. This isn't a choice you can easily take back. Marriage can be taken back easier than ending up at median at UNLV.

[ReasonableNprudent]

Magic, the fact that this thread didn't have these pessimistic overtones in the first few posts is actually quite miraculous.

I'm usually one of the more generous and optimistic opinion givers around here. And on its face, UNLV with your stated goals isn't terrible, and Vegas may be a just fine place to hang your hat for the next 20-60 years.

Having said that, you've gotten good feedback here from the more skeptical (realistic) side of the board.

To be honest, 22 and 24 is young, and 3 years is not as long term of a relationship as you think it is. In reality, you guys dated through college, and the future is unknown. Even marriage is very often temporary. I heard when I was getting ready to start law school that half of those that start law school married are not married by the end of it. This 50% figure is markedly different than the normal failure rate, as it accounts for only 3 years.

You might not want to bear the burden of being the bread winning/superior in prestige/"trophy wife" for having the more prestigious degree and possibly the better correlating job. But that is not a good reason to give up on better opportunities. If you partner develops some sort of an emotional or physical disability and gains 300 lbs will you do the same, just to keep the balance in the relationship? This analogy is obviously more severe, but it is still analogous. And your sig other could really rock it and build an awesome firm; but your credentials are better and there is correlation to lsat/gpa and success in law school and subsequently in a legal career.

I have noticed that people generally change in personality over 3 years in law school. People tend to get more skeptical, critical, analytical, and sharp in opinion and tongue. You guys might come out just swimmingly and wind up wed somewhere along the way. But what it you don't? Are you going to be OK with the fact that you gave up better opportunities to keep parity in the relationship when you were 22 and started law school? Keep in mind, that person is not the naive 22 y/o with a 3 year life partner, but is instead the wiser, more cynical, more single, more jaded you.

Of course, you aren't going to want to mitigate future relative "damage" to your life by doubting your current blissful relationship and going to some more prestigious law school far away form your sig-o. That would seem kind of shallow, wouldn't it?. But there still might be better options. For example, what about something like UCLA on a good scholarship with him at Loyola or Pepperdine on a similarly good scholarship? I use this example because I familiar with L.A. Another example might be Berkeley and Hastings, or NYU and Carodoza. Or Chicago and Loyola Chicago or Kent. You get the idea.

The Vegas idea doesn't need to be a total write-off. But do you really want to bank the majority of your career and future life on 3 years at UNLV? You are taking a big spin at the wheel. You might come up Black and graduate blissfully married, both employed, with a low 6 figure combined income in small law. Of course, eventually you might have babies. The lone income might be enough for a comfortable middle class Vegas existence.

But what if the wheel comes up Red, and you are a 3L at UNLV, tired of the oppressive summers, not at the very top of the class and with options that don't look as bright then as you hope they do now, and your relationship has had whatever toll 3 additional years and law school might take on it taken on it? Even if things go well, do you want to be the 40 year old woman realizing that she had more potential and better opportunities than her lousy ex or now balding and overweight hubby that flirts with his secretary and doesn't do his share with the kids and the house? These are all possibilities.

Just consider if this is really the gamble you want to take. I do believe that a degree from UNLV is not likely to be highly portable. After a couple of years in the field it is your experience and qualifications that matter. However, the Nevada market is small. I have no idea how easy it would be to port your experience out of state. If both of you or you alone want out, will you have the options that you will want?

My suggestion: at the very minimum, go to Vegas for a good solid week to two weeks and do not do Vegassy things. Get a Super 8 in Henderson. Go to the grocery stores and shopping malls. Visit the municipal area downtown. Travel a mile or two to the north west of the strip. Vegas is not a bad city, but it's not all bottle service in a cabana at the Cosmo either.

Edit: My post presumes hetero. Not sure I saw genders anywhere in your posts, OP. I apologize for my assumption if not hetero; most of it will still apply.

[duck]

Marriage can be taken back easier than ending up at median at UNLV.

especially in vegas

[xael]

OP, I went straight through like you. I initially deposited at a school based in part--an embarrassingly large part--on the guy I was dating so he could go to the highest ranked school he got in to. It was a better school than UNLV but unlike your situation a much worse financial decision than my other option.

I'm extremely lucky that I got off a waitlist and was able to undo that choice, and that when the opportunity came up, he was the first person to encourage me to go. I never would have forgiven myself for staying at the first school, and consider depositing there to be--by far--the worst decision I ever made. Law school won't just change you, aging changes you (she says, from her lofty point of two whole years (!) of extra experience). You don't know who you or your partner will be in the next few years. If you both want to be a lawyer, follow him and work for a few years, or have him follow you and then reapply to schools wherever you are working. But don't do this.

[ReasonableNprudent]

OP, I went straight through like you. I initially deposited at a school based in part--an embarrassingly large part--on the guy I was dating so he could go to the highest ranked school he got in to. It was a better school than UNLV but unlike your situation a much worse financial decision than my other option.

I'm extremely lucky that I got off a waitlist and was able to undo that choice, and that when the opportunity came up, he was the first person to encourage me to go. I never would have forgiven myself for staying at the first school, and consider depositing there to be--by far--the worst decision I ever made. Law school won't just change you, aging changes you (she says, from her lofty point of two whole years (!) of extra experience). You don't know who you or your partner will be in the next few years. If you both want to be a lawyer, follow him and work for a few years, or have him follow you and then reapply to schools wherever you are working. But don't do this.

You guys still together?

[foregetaboutdre]

Something to consider....could you get a pretty large/almost full scholarship at Georgetown and your SO go to an American, GWU, George Mason, Catholic on a big/full scholarship? DC gives you some good options for your "SO SPLITTER (lol)" situation with some lower T1s/T2s for your SO.

If you take some more debt there is also the Duke/UNC option. You go to Duke and your SO goes to UNC. About a 20 min drive and two better schools IMO than UNLV.

Since you're from PA. What about Penn/Temple/Villanova?

Chi - NW/UChi & Loyola, Chicago Kent, DePaul

Not trying to be a dick, but I think it's kind of a waste for YOU to go to UNLV tbh with your stats and having a lack of ties. The West becomes sort of a weird place once you get through the "transplants" and start dealing with locals in the market. (Goes for CO/NV/Utah etc...). Something to consider.

This is highly, highly, highly open to not happening (and it pains me to give this advice/statement, but I feel like I need to), but if you went to T14 and got a job paying market or near market (160k) and your SO got a job paying 40k, that'd be 200k of combined income. (I know you said you didn't want biglaw, but lots of people change). If you both go to UNLV and make 55k that's 110k combined income. Even if you made 80 and your SO 55k (or vice versa) that'd be 135k.

[xael]

OP, I went straight through like you. I initially deposited at a school based in part--an embarrassingly large part--on the guy I was dating so he could go to the highest ranked school he got in to. It was a better school than UNLV but unlike your situation a much worse financial decision than my other option.

I'm extremely lucky that I got off a waitlist and was able to undo that choice, and that when the opportunity came up, he was the first person to encourage me to go. I never would have forgiven myself for staying at the first school, and consider depositing there to be--by far--the worst decision I ever made. Law school won't just change you, aging changes you (she says, from her lofty point of two whole years (!) of extra experience). You don't know who you or your partner will be in the next few years. If you both want to be a lawyer, follow him and work for a few years, or have him follow you and then reapply to schools wherever you are working. But don't do this.

You guys still together?

We deliberately broke up before 1L started. But I felt this way before I got into the school I'm at.

And before OP asks how long we had been dating or notes that their relationship is stronger--my sense of error came before I got in to my current school. I knew I had made a mistake but I was 22 and dumb and hadn't chosen a school lile UNLV that could completely screw me over if I graduated median at.

OP, you have fairly similar numbers to what I had. Unless by "life partner" you mean "Siamese twin," UNLV, Iowa, or anywhere but t14 or wustl for free, is a bad decision.

[magicmagic]

Something to consider....could you get a pretty large/almost full scholarship at Georgetown and your SO go to an American, GWU, George Mason, Catholic on a big/full scholarship? DC gives you some good options for your "SO SPLITTER (lol)" situation with some lower T1s/T2s for your SO.

If you take some more debt there is also the Duke/UNC option. You go to Duke and your SO goes to UNC. About a 20 min drive and two better schools IMO than UNLV.

Since you're from PA. What about Penn/Temple/Villanova?

Chi - NW/UChi & Loyola, Chicago Kent, DePaul

Not trying to be a dick, but I think it's kind of a waste for YOU to go to UNLV tbh with your stats.

This is highly, highly, highly open to not happening (and it pains me to give this advice/statement, but I feel like I need to), but if you went to T14 and got a job paying market or near market (160k) and your SO got a job paying 40k, that'd be 200k of combined income. (I know you said you didn't want biglaw, but lots of people change). If you both go to UNLV and make 55k that's 110k combined income. Even if you made 80 and your SO 55k (or vice versa) that'd be 135k.

135k with no debt would be blissful, but I understand that that is by no means a guarunteed outcome with a UNLV degree. I'm so conflicted. In addition to the Emory and WashU pairings, we are into UCLA/Loyola (both with $$$). He's into Wake Forest, Loyola Chicago, and W&L with good packages if I get accepted to Duke, Chicago, or UVA (I'm not convinced I will). The only match for Michigan is Michigan state, which is unfortunate. But I don't think I'd get much $ from any of the T14, and like I said earlier, I am extremely apprehensive about debt (and having to work a soul-crushing BL job to repay it). We also applied to Baylor and Texas but neither of us have heard back yet.

This thread has gotten so philosophical, thank you all for your input!! Even the people who don't think I actually want to be a lawyer. I didn't mean to give that impression; it's certainly not something that I've planned since childhood, but I am nonetheless fully committed to it. My SO has IP law experience, so I have some exposure to real-life (read: boring, paperwork-laden, patent-filing, desk-bound) lawyering. I am more than thrilled by the thought of one day working in health law, ideally (though probably not with a UNLV degree) as counsel for a hospital. I do have some conception of what lawyers do, and I think I would enjoy it.

SO and I are actually kicking around a lot of the ideas you guys have suggested, and figuring out pairings that we might both be happy with. The gender dynamics thing is definitely a monster (he wants to be able to support me, I want to one day have tons of gloriously attractive offspring who I actually spend time with) but we might both have to compromise.

[xael]

[foregetaboutdre]

Something to consider....could you get a pretty large/almost full scholarship at Georgetown and your SO go to an American, GWU, George Mason, Catholic on a big/full scholarship? DC gives you some good options for your "SO SPLITTER (lol)" situation with some lower T1s/T2s for your SO.

If you take some more debt there is also the Duke/UNC option. You go to Duke and your SO goes to UNC. About a 20 min drive and two better schools IMO than UNLV.

Since you're from PA. What about Penn/Temple/Villanova?

Chi - NW/UChi & Loyola, Chicago Kent, DePaul

Not trying to be a dick, but I think it's kind of a waste for YOU to go to UNLV tbh with your stats.

This is highly, highly, highly open to not happening (and it pains me to give this advice/statement, but I feel like I need to), but if you went to T14 and got a job paying market or near market (160k) and your SO got a job paying 40k, that'd be 200k of combined income. (I know you said you didn't want biglaw, but lots of people change). If you both go to UNLV and make 55k that's 110k combined income. Even if you made 80 and your SO 55k (or vice versa) that'd be 135k.

135k with no debt would be blissful, but I understand that that is by no means a guarunteed outcome with a UNLV degree. I'm so conflicted. In addition to the Emory and WashU pairings, we are into UCLA/Loyola (both with $$$). He's into Wake Forest, Loyola Chicago, and W&L with good packages if I get accepted to Duke, Chicago, or UVA (I'm not convinced I will). The only match for Michigan is Michigan state, which is unfortunate. But I don't think I'd get much $ from any of the T14, and like I said earlier, I am extremely apprehensive about debt (and having to work a soul-crushing BL job to repay it). We also applied to Baylor and Texas but neither of us have heard back yet.

This thread has gotten so philosophical, thank you all for your input!! Even the people who don't think I actually want to be a lawyer. I didn't mean to give that impression; it's certainly not something that I've planned since childhood, but I am nonetheless fully committed to it. My SO has IP law experience, so I have some exposure to real-life (read: boring, paperwork-laden, patent-filing, desk-bound) lawyering. I am more than thrilled by the thought of one day working in health law, ideally (though probably not with a UNLV degree) as counsel for a hospital. I do have some conception of what lawyers do, and I think I would enjoy it.

SO and I are actually kicking around a lot of the ideas you guys have suggested, and figuring out pairings that we might both be happy with. The gender dynamics thing is definitely a monster (he wants to be able to support me, I want to one day have tons of gloriously attractive offspring who I actually spend time with) but we might both have to compromise.

Being from MI - MSU will only essentially land you jobs in MI. MI is very insular IME due to people being very skeptical "why do you want to be here". I'd say so more than Vegas, but can't guarantee that. MI being a punching bag for jokes about Detroit/being a 0 population growth state has fueled this insularness. Also MSU to UM is a 50-55 min drive that can be pure hell in the winter (I've done it a lot w/ my SO)

Honestly UNLV isn't that bad of a decision if you for sure are really that debt-adverse and so biglaw adverse. With your career goals for a counsel for a hospital, i'd be very wary of not wanting to do BigLaw. I'm not interested in Health Law, but if it's like any other industry - main hospitals will probably hire someone as their GC straight from biglaw. But, I have absolutely no idea what NV or Vegas biglaw is like. NV biglaw could be all UNLV grads with a smattering of other schools and only have 75 attorneys (being technically "midlaw").

Anyways, yeah I'd say this is a hard decision, but UNLV is making more sense at least to me knowing your preferences. I think you can establish ties to NV/LV esp. if you try hard enough by going to the local school. The one thing you will be guaranteed to do is tell whoever is interviewing you when they ask "Why Nevada?" Is say "My SO lives in Nevada and we want to settle down and live here." Probably a really easy answer and they most likely won't ask additional questions.

[hairbear7]

When did you apply? You should have better T-14 options if you just keep waiting (It's only February)

[landshoes]

A lot of schools have health law programs. I'm only familiar with UChi, because I'm here, but we have a certificate program that includes a health law internship, participation in symposiums and conferences, and doesn't add any time or cost to the JD. I'm sure other schools have something similar.

[landshoes]

and I don't want to harp on this point, but holding back on your career won't make it so that you spend more time with your kids. Rather the opposite. Kids are expensive, living in a neighborhood with good schools is expensive, taking time off from work is expensive. Jobs that let you work from home, and that have decent benefits, are easier to get if you're a more competitive applicant. I could go on and on. Having money makes it easier to have a decent work-life balance. Sure, it might be great if he were making six figures and you didn't have to work. But you limiting yourself will not actually help him achieve that goal. It would just limit you both as an economic unit.

Edited to add: it's like you have an almost superstitious idea that if you have earning power, you'll be forced to use it while your children sit at home alone. That is the case if you're very poor (and everyone who can make money, needs to be out making money) but not how it works once you're getting good, professional jobs that pay decently. Those jobs allow you to save, build a career and a professional network, and plan for time off. They let you actively make the choice to make less money and work less.

Being in a situation where you can't earn good money, so you don't have to earn money, doesn't happen when you're an adult with children that you're responsible for. Instead, if you can't earn good money, you have to work much more, and/or you and your kids go without. When you have economic power, you have more choice, not less. This is something that you might not understand yet on a gut level if you weren't raised around people with economic security, but it's the absolute truth.

[xael]

UNLV is not a good option when OP had wustl for free. And UCLA with money. Or HYS with a retake (it doesn't sound like she studied much for the LSAT).
E: seconding the application timeline question

[ReasonableNprudent]

I initially was not against the UNLV idea. The more I think about it, it seems like there are many other options (better options) at OP's disposal, and the UNLV hypo is just the most fun to ponder of the bunch.

Also, feeling "at home" in Vegas and actually being at home in Vegas are not the same thing. It is easy to go to Vegas and have a good time and think you could see yourself living there. I've done in many times (way, way, way more than 5), and I've gone as far as looking at real estate and spending time off the strip. I've also gone to Vegas and left much earlier than intended, because that place can be just plain evil! I still might live there, but I can see it getting old.

I hadn't thought of Duke/UNC, but that is actually a very good option if OP has any interest at all in staying on the east coast. Duke is high caliber and UNC is still very reputable, especially down that way. I've been to Chapel Hill and Durham. They actually kind of remind me of non-touristy Vegas now that I think about it.

[ReasonableNprudent]

Also, $135k and no debt is very good, but I wouldn't call it blissful. It is easy to find places for $135k with a family.
$135 is also an objectively good family income for a city like Vegas. But let's not get carried away with pie-eyed optimism in the hypos.

[Johann]

You won't be making 70k coming out of UNLV, think more like 40-60k

[xael]

Okay but the real thing is no 22 year old should be making decisions based off a significant other

[AllIn1212]

I'm not convinced SO retaking should be precluded as an option yet, with both of y'all sitting out a cycle. I can't believe the other more experienced posters aren't emphasizing this. You sound like a really good person, and you've been receiving some sage advice. I think a double retake/reapply would be the sagest yet.

Not to be corny, but you're worth it.

ETA: please don't be afraid of a dead-end job for a year. It could become the foundation for greater things. I wish you the best.

[duck]

sheryl sandberg would have an aneurysm reading this thread

[Clearly]

Teach your boyfriend how to take the lsat. Problem solved.