Please tell me anything at all about UNLV Forum

[mayorscurvy]

Is this thread the reason why everyone hates K-JDs?

[ReasonableNprudent]

Retake results in 174 and 165. Then what? More money ,anyways.

[Tls2016]

OP equates going to the best school (at the best price) she can with being the family breadwinner and never seeing her kids.

This part I truly don't understand, even less than the move Las Vegas from Pennsylvania because we have visited there a few times and be a health care lawyer making around $70,000 because my SO is bad at tests.

Is all this OPs thinking or is it the SO holding her back from more prestige than he would have? Why wouldn't he study hard and retake? The more she posts the weirder this sounds.

Good luck OP.

[magicmagic]

OP equates going to the best school (at the best price) she can with being the family breadwinner and never seeing her kids.

This part I truly don't understand, even less than the move Las Vegas from Pennsylvania because we have visited there a few times and be a health care lawyer making around $70,000 because my SO is bad at tests.

Is all this OPs thinking or is it the SO holding her back from more prestige than he would have? Why wouldn't he study hard and retake? The more she posts the weirder this sounds.

Good luck OP.

I do feel that way, and it sounds like that may have been a very incorrect assumption. I don't have much experience with either parent being a successful breadwinner, but SO had a workaholic mother who he didn't see very often and it was not a great situation, so maybe I extrapolated his experience to be the norm in upper-middle class families. (I also had a lot of friends in college with his same situation.)

I don't think the UNLV thing is exceptionally weird: we can both attend with no debt and then practice where we want to live. We've repeatedly been to Nevada for weeks at a time, it's not like we went once, "oh this is nice," and decided to stay there forever. I'm not saying the UNLV idea isn't flawed (it clearly it), but we didn't pull it out of nowhere. I should also clarify: I have no familial support, but SO does, and his parents will be paying for all living expenses (if we live together) and they approve of the school (they like UNLV because it is free). So there would be no COL debt. I really like WUSTL, but SLU is not a great match. We don't especially love the idea of living in Missouri forever.

I hope this thread doesn't sound trollish, I know our situation is weird but we're really trying to figure this out. His 160 was a retake (which I helped him study for), so this isn't a situation where taking off a year to study more would improve things significantly. I applied in mid-January...any idea when I would start hearing back from places like Duke or UVA? Is Wake Forest a decent bet for SO? At least the Carolinas are warm.

[magicmagic]

Is this thread the reason why everyone hates K-JDs?

You are so helpful! What a brilliant use of 50 characters!

[magicmagic]

It is encouraging. My understanding is that Nony did extremely well in law school which as you know from your previous posts you can't count on getting good grades. (The mandatory curve hurts even good students.)

I should throw out there that while I'm aware there are no guarantees in law school (and that it's very difficult), I do feel confident that I would do well there and extremely well somewhere like UNLV or Iowa. I basically slept through undergrad (wrote research papers the night before, didn't study, etc) and graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and I intend to put infinitely more effort into law school. I'm not a genius or anything but I definitely have the potential to perform well. (Side note: history was not one of the "easier" majors at my school, they are known nationally for the program.)

Hope that doesn't sound braggy, just giving context.

[grades??]

Retake. There is no legit reason to go to UNLV. You have less than a 50% chance each of getting a legal job. period. My significant other and I live far away in order to go to the best law schools possible. Totally the best decision.

[psu2016]

It is encouraging. My understanding is that Nony did extremely well in law school which as you know from your previous posts you can't count on getting good grades. (The mandatory curve hurts even good students.)

I should throw out there that while I'm aware there are no guarantees in law school (and that it's very difficult), I do feel confident that I would do well there and extremely well somewhere like UNLV or Iowa. I basically slept through undergrad (wrote research papers the night before, didn't study, etc) and graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and I intend to put infinitely more effort into law school. I'm not a genius or anything but I definitely have the potential to perform well. (Side note: history was not one of the "easier" majors at my school, they are known nationally for the program.)

Hope that doesn't sound braggy, just giving context.

Your repeated rationalizations and denials here are really concerning. I go to school with a kid who studied at freaking Cambridge and is median at a TTT. Like you, he came with a significant other and expected to do exactly what you think you're going to do. He is about to graduate without a job in a crappy market and a very very limited worth degree. I urge you to abandon this assumption about your abilities.

[Tls2016]

It is encouraging. My understanding is that Nony did extremely well in law school which as you know from your previous posts you can't count on getting good grades. (The mandatory curve hurts even good students.)

I should throw out there that while I'm aware there are no guarantees in law school (and that it's very difficult), I do feel confident that I would do well there and extremely well somewhere like UNLV or Iowa. I basically slept through undergrad (wrote research papers the night before, didn't study, etc) and graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and I intend to put infinitely more effort into law school. I'm not a genius or anything but I definitely have the potential to perform well. (Side note: history was not one of the "easier" majors at my school, they are known nationally for the program.)

Hope that doesn't sound braggy, just giving context.

Your repeated rationalizations and denials here are really concerning. I go to school with a kid who studied at freaking Cambridge and is median at a TTT. Like you, he came with a significant other and expected to do exactly what you think you're going to do. He is about to graduate without a job in a crappy market and a very very limited worth degree. I urge you to abandon this assumption about your abilities.

OP: everyone thinks they will do well in law school or they wouldn't go. The mandatory curve is something most 0Ls don't quite understand. There are only so many As allowed in any class. That number doesn't change no matter how hard people work or how perfectly the exams are written. The professor has to find distinctions. Plus, you only have one exam, no midterms, no weekly homework, nothing.

[psu2016]

Writing a research paper the night before is literally nothing like analyzing a con law exam in three hours.

[BigZuck]

Not to mention if you come down with like a cold or flu the day of the exam or get into a fight with your SO (or whatever) you could totally ruin your gpa. Just not quite understanding proximate cause or mens rea the way your idiosyncratic prof wants you to understand it can also tank your gpa. One bad performance and it's over. It's a pretty small margin of error when you're talking about law school grades (especially 1L grades)

[Tls2016]

Not to mention if you come down with like a cold or flu the day of the exam or get into a fight with your SO (or whatever) you could totally ruin your gpa. Just not quite understanding proximate cause or mens rea the way your idiosyncratic prof wants you to understand it can also tank your gpa. One bad performance and it's over. It's a pretty small margin of error when you're talking about law school grades (especially 1L grades)

OP: that's why people advise going to a school where you will be ok if you are at median, though obviously lots of people end up below median. I remember a Harvard poster whose father was suddenly desperately ill the night before exams. He went ahead and took them and bombed. Then he was left having to explain his terrible grades to employers. Stuff happens.
OP this is a time to be maximizing your potential outcomes not limiting yourself.

[psu2016]

Not to mention if you come down with like a cold or flu the day of the exam or get into a fight with your SO (or whatever) you could totally ruin your gpa. Just not quite understanding proximate cause or mens rea the way your idiosyncratic prof wants you to understand it can also tank your gpa. One bad performance and it's over. It's a pretty small margin of error when you're talking about law school grades (especially 1L grades)

And at a certain point it can become arbitrary. It's not like undergrad where the prof can be like "these are both great. As all around." No. The prof has to look at a bunch of equivalent papers and hierarchically rank them somehow. That difference cs be very subtle.

[magicmagic]

I have taken classes graded on a bell curve, I know what that is. I have also taken classes (both domestic and while studying abroad) that hinged entirely (or almost entirely) on a single final exam. I am not someone who is helped by homework/participation/projects/palling around with professors, I perform best on research papers and in-class exams. But, okay, I understand your concern, I won't assume competence.

To get back to the point, yes, UNLV at median would definitely not be great. I know people bashed Iowa, but would median there be acceptable? Their employment data is pretty good. We don't love the midwest but maybe we could learn to/stick it out until we both got some marketable work experience. I know it's not T14, but much less risky than UNLV.

[landshoes]

His parents are willing to support him at UNLV. You'll also be there.

Honestly, the fact that they are willing to put you in this position is really shabby. I'm sure they don't mean to, but I would never ever ever do something like this to my sons' girlfriend.

[magicmagic]

His parents are willing to support him at UNLV. You'll also be there.

Honestly, the fact that they are willing to put you in this position is really shabby. I'm sure they don't mean to, but I would never ever ever do something like this to my sons' girlfriend.

You should have seen his mother after I got the 170 LSAT email. I don't think she spoke to me for a week. Yeah, not ideal, but that's what we have to work with.

They might be willing to pay his way to Iowa if he gets a good package (over 50% tuition).

[BigZuck]

Basically you have a lot of things stacked against you and if you proceed with this plan, you're banking on beating all the odds.

You plan to get good grades, when in reality law school grades can often have an element of randomness, there is some inherent skill in law school exam taking that can't be predicting going in, and you have a small margin for error (and I actually think this part of your plan is the least troublesome)

You assume you'll want to be in NV long term even though you've never lived there before when there is a good possibility you won't.

You think NV employers will be willing to hire you (if you get good grades?) when there is a good possibility that they won't.

You think you actually want to be a lawyer even though it's something you've only thought about (for 6 months? for a year?) when there is a good possibility that you won't.

You think that you'll be able to get jobs in NV in the fields you guys are interested in when there is a good possibility that you won't (because they might not even exist).

You think you won't ever aspire to something that a UNLV JD can't get you when there is a good possibility that you will.

And I'll be honest, this is the most problematic to me- You think that as a 22 year old you have found your "life partner" who you will be with forever and that you will make major life altering decisions around when there is a good possibility that you, like practically every 22 year old who has ever existed, don't know what you want from life or what is good for you in the long run.

There's a lot of things stacked against you here. Maybe you'll overcome all of them and thrive, I don't know. I do know that you're going to do whatever it is you're going to do because that's how 22 year olds roll (Lord knows I couldn't be convinced of anything when I was 22). Maybe this is all "ageist" of me, but when I think back on the major decisions I was making at 22 it's pretty frightening.

TLS is a risk averse bunch, I'll totally admit that. And you are in the best position to make decisions for yourself and to know yourself, we are all just a bunch of randos on the internet. But, in my opinion, you need to do a little hedging on some of these bets. If you think you want to be in NV long term, move there with your SO. Work for a couple years. He retakes the LSAT. See if you like living there. See if you want to stay together long term. And when he scores higher on the LSAT, you'll have better options if you decide you do want to stay together long term but you realize you don't want to be in NV. Basically just give yourself some more time to grow and mature and improve your options before rushing headlong into something that carries with it a high possibility of regret.

[BigZuck]

You should have seen his mother after I got the 170 LSAT email. I don't think she spoke to me for a week. Yeah, not ideal, but that's what we have to work with.

Man

I don't think a SO's parents have to be determinative of anything but the red flags are running pretty deep here

[landshoes]

And absolutely nothing keeps them from deciding that they don't want to support you anymore. Even if you two were married, which you aren't, parents say they'll support their kids all the time and then don't. They especially say that they will support their son's girlfriend and then don't. Because she's not related to them, and they don't really care about her future. They are willing to support their son, and tangentially support you, probably with some annoyance and resentment, as long as you are making their son happy and more likely to do well in law school.

It is not what you have to work with. You have to work with yourself. You are not part of his family. You love him, and he loves you, and that is very nice. But you need to get this "we" shit out of your vocabulary. Take care of yourself, because he certainly is not thinking about taking care of you. Likely this is not because he's a bad guy, but because he is a naïve early 20s something. You certainly are not committed to his parents and not only are they not committed to you, they resent your success. Where do you think that he's getting the idea that it's a good idea to hold you back, and hold you down in terms of your success, in order to make him feel better? He's getting it from his parents, and he has absorbed a lot of it and he has not adequately thought it through. This is the attitude that you're going to be committing to, and limiting your potential for. You are treating yourself like a second-class citizen. There's absolutely no reason for it.

[ReasonableNprudent]

It is easy to get tunnel vision with this sort of thing.

Why don't you spend some time on another hypo. Go read over the Duke and UNC webpages. Maybe you'll develop an affinity for the color blue. Look around at apartments in Chapel Hill and Durham on the internet. Check out Wilmington for impromptu summer getaways.

Folks here aren't trying to do you a disservice by talking yout out of a dream; they are showing you there are better dreams to be had.

Also, throw away the assumption of being near the top. For real. The fact that you coasted in college gives as much reason to believe you will be below median as above. I'll give you some credit in that you did well on the lsat and that does generally correlate. But half the class winds up in B average territory. You must acknowledge it is very naive to simply assume you will be in the 25% that are above that.

[Tls2016]

Most bell curve classes in college don't have an exactly pre set curve that gives no discretion. I would be surprised if you have done the equivalent of a 3hour race horse exam with a mandatory curve.
Try to keep an open mind about the advice you are getting. No one is trying to put you down or question your abilities. I went to law school with people who had never received a B in their life and were devastated by their law school grades.
Honestly, I think your situation and decision making is not optimal and I think you can make choices that will serve you better.

[magicmagic]

It is not what you have to work with. You have to work with yourself. You are not part of his family. You love him, and he loves you, and that is very nice. But you need to get this "we" shit out of your vocabulary. Take care of yourself, because he certainly is not thinking about taking care of you. Likely this is not because he's a bad guy, but because he is a naïve early 20s something. You certainly are not committed to his parents and not only are they not committed to you, they resent your success. Where do you think that he's getting the idea that it's a good idea to hold you back, and hold you down in terms of your success, in order to make him feel better? He's getting it from his parents, and he has absorbed a lot of it and he has not adequately thought it through. This is the attitude that you're going to be committing to, and limiting your potential for. You are treating yourself like a second-class citizen. There's absolutely no reason for it.

I'm really concerned about what the alternative is. If a pairing doesn't work out (or if SO refuses to go to the lower ranked school, or if his parents won't pay), the only option would be living separately (possibly very long distance) for 3 years. I would have to take out loans for all living expenses, on top of law school and undergraduate debt. And I would be completely alone without any form of support. I'm sure that sounds naive/immature/ridiculous but it's a pretty jarring concept. Plus I mean I would miss my SO horribly. (I studied abroad in the UK for 4 months and we survived it easily but we definitely didn't enjoy being separated for so long.)

He didn't apply to UNC this cycle, but like I said he is into Wake Forest with good $. If we lived in the middle it would be totally doable. IF I get into Duke. If he was willing to go to Wake Forest.

[xael]

OP, please stop thinking about your SO in this situation. Like, seriously.

Not all debt is bad. Cost of living degt at washu is practically negligible. And you wouldn't be alone without any support--for better or worse law school creates that support.

I get the sense that a lot of this comes from your lack of family support. You don't need to hinge yourself on his to have family.

Again, this is coming from someone who very nearly made the same decision

[magicmagic]

Most bell curve classes in college don't have an exactly pre set curve that gives no discretion. I would be surprised if you have done the equivalent of a 3hour race horse exam with a mandatory curve.
Try to keep an open mind about the advice you are getting. No one is trying to put you down or question your abilities. I went to law school with people who had never received a B in their life and were devastated by their law school grades.
Honestly, I think your situation and decision making is not optimal and I think you can make choices that will serve you better.

I understand that, I didn't mean to sound defensive. Thank you!

[Alive97]

I disagree with landshoes' assumption that you have a mandate to maximize your earning potential and career success. No one does. In theory, it's reasonable to go to a free school with your life partner in a place you both love. But at 22 you might end up changing plans, and you don't want to go to a school that gives you a 50% shot at a legal job.