Please tell me anything at all about UNLV Forum

[magicmagic]

So me and my life partner are both in with full tuition (I also received a $2500 stipend annually). We love love love the American Southwest, and are both very pleased with the notion of living in Nevada long term. Neither of us are interested in Big Law or 60 hour work weeks, and would be more than happy with 70k+ starting salaries and room for promotions. (I like health care law and he plans to pursue IP.) UNLV looks pretty good from what we've researched so far, and we plan to visit the school in the next 2-3 weeks...however, we have a few lingering questions:

It is absolutely ridiculous for us to attend a T2 school considering our numbers? Does UNLV dominate the Las Vegas legal market? Is it likely that their ranking will improve over the next 5-10 years? Does anyone know anything at all helpful about UNLV?? Help??????

I know UNLV is a very new school with good specialty programs, but I'd like to know more about their employment statistics. I assume I'd graduate in the top 5-10%, if that makes a difference.

My stats: 170/3.83
Life partner's stats: 160/3.67

Disclaimer: I am very aware that I could attend a higher ranked school. I'm into WUSTL, Minnesota, UArizona, and Iowa with full tuition, and was accepted to NYU. But I'm not sure that these schools make sense considering our life plan and interests. Life partner is into W&L, Iowa, Richmond, U of St. Louis, Georgia State, UArizona, and Wake Forest.

Any input is appreciated!!

[Biglaw1990]

You can possibly get a full scholarship or close to it at a lower T14. Why settle for UNLV? Also, you can't assume that you'll be in the top 10%.

[duck]

I assume I'd graduate in the top 5-10%, if that makes a difference.

^ suggests you don't really know what you're getting into

but if it's the best school ur P can get a full ride at then hey what the hell. it won't wreck you financially. just don't plan to leave Nevada and accept the real possibility of never really finding work as a lawyer.

[seashell.economy]

Well, you both love the desert, aren't interested in big law, and have full tuition plus a living stipend. Seems like UNLV works for both of you. Have you seen this yet? http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/unlv/

[fliptrip]

We love love love the American Southwest, and are both very pleased with the notion of living in Nevada long term.

Cool. Since UNLV is the only ABA-accredited school in the state, seems like a reasonable choice for someone wanting to stay in the state.

Neither of us are interested in Big Law or 60 hour work weeks, and would be more than happy with 70k+ starting salaries and room for promotions. (I like health care law and he plans to pursue IP.)

Manage your expectations. I highly doubt the jobs you'll snag coming out of school will pay close to $70k. I'd think more like $50k. There's huge underreporting with salaries that would force me to estimate lower than what's published.

It is absolutely ridiculous for us to attend a T2 school considering our numbers? Does UNLV dominate the Las Vegas legal market? Is it likely that their ranking will improve over the next 5-10 years? Does anyone know anything at all helpful about UNLV?? Help??????

Forget arbitrary rankings and prestige. Your costs, placement, and goals are what matter. For someone wanting to live in Nevada and coming in with a full scholarship, UNLV should make a ton of sense.

I know UNLV is a very new school with good specialty programs, but I'd like to know more about their employment statistics.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/unlv/2014/ Beware, folks who go there end up totally unemployed in not inconsiderable numbers.

I assume I'd graduate in the top 5-10%, if that makes a difference.

Don't do that. You have some reason to think you'll be above median, or 75th%ile even, but predicting top 10% is going too far.

By the way, what are the stipulations on your scholarships, if any? Schools can be really tricky with those...

[eagle2a]

You won't be making 70k coming out of UNLV, think more like 40-60k

[magicmagic]

I assume I'd graduate in the top 5-10%, if that makes a difference.

Don't do that. You have some reason to think you'll be above median, or 75th%ile even, but predicting top 10% is going too far.

By the way, what are the stipulations on your scholarships, if any? Schools can be really tricky with those...

The only stipulation is good academic standing, which is like a 2.3. Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed that I definitely for sure end up in the top 10%. I just meant that one of the few benefits of going to a law school with numbers significantly lower than yours is that you tend to end up performing better there than you would at a place like WUSTL or Vandy (or obviously T14).

60k would be alright, 40k is definitely worrying. Although no debt and two incomes would make it survivable until (if?) we found better options...We're both into Iowa too, but LP will definitely have debt coming out and we don't really see the Midwest as our ultimate destination.

It is absolutely ridiculous for us to attend a T2 school considering our numbers? Does UNLV dominate the Las Vegas legal market? Is it likely that their ranking will improve over the next 5-10 years? Does anyone know anything at all helpful about UNLV?? Help??????

Forget arbitrary rankings and prestige. Your costs, placement, and goals are what matter. For someone wanting to live in Nevada and coming in with a full scholarship, UNLV should make a ton of sense.

Thank you!!! This is great validation. So many TLS posters have an attitude like "If you don't go to T1 you will starve and die in the streets" and it is exhausting.

[Clearly]

I think you're overestimating the correlation between scholarships and LS grades. LS exams are unlike anything you've seen before. Scholarship or no scholarship I wouldn't go to a school you weren't prepared to be median at.

[Clearly]

I assume I'd graduate in the top 5-10%, if that makes a difference.

Don't do that. You have some reason to think you'll be above median, or 75th%ile even, but predicting top 10% is going too far.

By the way, what are the stipulations on your scholarships, if any? Schools can be really tricky with those...

The only stipulation is good academic standing, which is like a 2.3. Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed that I definitely for sure end up in the top 10%. I just meant that one of the few benefits of going to a law school with numbers significantly lower than yours is that you tend to end up performing better there than you would at a place like WUSTL or Vandy (or obviously T14).

60k would be alright, 40k is definitely worrying. Although no debt and two incomes would make it survivable until (if?) we found better options...We're both into Iowa too, but LP will definitely have debt coming out and we don't really see the Midwest as our ultimate destination.

It is absolutely ridiculous for us to attend a T2 school considering our numbers? Does UNLV dominate the Las Vegas legal market? Is it likely that their ranking will improve over the next 5-10 years? Does anyone know anything at all helpful about UNLV?? Help??????

Forget arbitrary rankings and prestige. Your costs, placement, and goals are what matter. For someone wanting to live in Nevada and coming in with a full scholarship, UNLV should make a ton of sense.

Thank you!!! This is great validation. So many TLS posters have an attitude like "If you don't go to T1 you will starve and die in the streets" and it is exhausting.

Also I hate when people say stuff like this. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single poster that wouldn't support your choice in your circumstances.

[ReasonableNprudent]

Things I know about UNLV:

Small class, relatively.
Close to the strip.
Some good faculty.
Mostly feeds small firms.
My scholly was top 1/3 stip contingent. (A few years ago. They wouldn't negotiate and I declied.)

Are you in LV now?

[fliptrip]

Thank you!!! This is great validation. So many TLS posters have an attitude like "If you don't go to T1 you will starve and die in the streets" and it is exhausting.

No problem. To join Clearly's chorus: No one who's worth listening to on TLS would tell you that going to a T2 on full scholarship in order to get a non-biglaw job in the T2's home market is an idea so embarrassing that you should drop the whole law school thing altogether.

Now, if you were going to try to use a UNLV degree to get a biglaw job in Washington, DC...that would get a dramatically different response.

[hairbear7]

Would you be happy with the employment prospects of a median student?

[duck]

it's ok to assume you'll be top 10% even as long as you have a good reason. I went in assuming I'd be near the top of the class but that's bc I'm a boss. your classmates having lsat scores a handful of points lower than yours on average is not a good reason. it means nothing.

[Tls2016]

Are you from the Southwest? Because the desert is a difficult place if you aren't used to it.

I think the salary will be lower than you expect.

How many law firms are there in Las Vegas, what kind of IP practice is located in the SW, what about health care law?

You need to research the job market. Has Las Vegas recovered from the recession?

[magicmagic]

Things I know about UNLV:

Small class, relatively.
Close to the strip.
Some good faculty.
Mostly feeds small firms.
My scholly was top 1/3 stip contingent. (A few years ago. They wouldn't negotiate and I declied.)

Are you in LV now?

I'm from Baltimore and LP is from Pennsylvania, and we're both living in PA now. But we've visited Nevada five times over the past three years and we absolutely adore it, it feels like home. (That sounds so cheesy but it's true.) The small class size is something we really like. We went to a small liberal arts school for undergrad and classes were like 6-25 students.

Would you be happy with the employment prospects of a median student?

That's a though one, but I think with no debt and living in Nevada the answer is probably yes. Or at least, I wouldn't be actively unhappy.

[Tls2016]

The LST report shows salary reported from less than half the class. I will say again that salary will be less than you expect and I have misgivings about either of you practicing what you think will be your specialty.

You need to be in the desert for more than short visits to see if you can stand it. The heat and lack of changing seasons can be tough for someone from the NE.

[ReasonableNprudent]

Also, if you've only been to LV on vacation, spend time away from the strip. I've seen a few sides of Vegas away from the strip. There are different Vegas IMO.

The Strip/Dt tourist vegas.
Henderson/small town conservative USA (a lot of Mormons.)
Suburbia.
The ghetto.

I suppose that could be most cities. Still Vegas can be either sleepy or seedy aside from tourism. I thonk it would be a nice place to live, though.
Low COL and good options for entertainment!

[fliptrip]

Oh boy, OP, I assumed you had something like real ties to Las Vegas/Nevada. You definitely need to learn a lot more about the legal market there...for instance, do employers really scrutinize having ties to the area in their hiring decisions? To me, this definitely changes your risk equation. You could end up without a job and with a degree that you won't be able to use to get you a real legal job anywhere else.

[Clearly]

Oh boy, OP, I assumed you had something like real ties to Las Vegas/Nevada. You definitely need to learn a lot more about the legal market there...for instance, do employers really scrutinize having ties to the area in their hiring decisions? To me, this definitely changes your risk equation. You could end up without a job and with a degree that you won't be able to use to get you a real legal job anywhere else.

Same thing, assumed you were from NV.

OP without ties to a small market like that you have much worse chances of solid employment. Whats your UG degree in? Odds are you could make the same money now and save three years. Also what are your numbers? You can't just pick a small market and target it without ties, or at least you can't do so with an expectation that it'll work out.

[JazzyMac]

You can possibly get a full scholarship or close to it at a lower T14. Why settle for UNLV? Also, you can't assume that you'll be in the top 10%.

This is not what was asked. Why do people keep replying in posts with answers that are outside of the scope of the question? I clicked on this thread hoping to see information about UNLV.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The OP's numbers are in their OP.

And I do think you can create ties in law school by attending the local flagship (I actually think the local flagship does a better job of creating ties to its local market than a T14 does to its local market). Also, while Las Vegas is going to be a fairly small legal market, it's a town that outsiders move to all the time, which I think helps. But it would make sense to explore the market and find out from lawyers in the area how they view local ties.

(It's also perfectly fair game to ask people why they want to go to a particular school.)

[magicmagic]

The LST report shows salary reported from less than half the class. I will say again that salary will be less than you expect and I have misgivings about either of you practicing what you think will be your specialty.

You need to be in the desert for more than short visits to see if you can stand it. The heat and lack of changing seasons can be tough for someone from the NE.

We're flexible with our specialties--we wouldn't be completely heartbroken if we ended up doing something else--but my point is that we have specific law-related interests and have (tentative) plans. UNLV has a specific health law program (something Iowa doesn't have), as well as a conflict resolution program that LP really likes.

I also think it's a little condescending to assume that we can't possibly know if Nevada is the right place for us. Moving across the country is a huge decision that we've put a lot of thought into. Neither of us have ever felt any affinity to the NE, but we love every part of Nevada (Vegas, Reno, the in-between desert, summer, winter, mountains, all of it).

The OP's numbers are in their OP.

And I do think you can create ties in law school by attending the local flagship (I actually think the local flagship does a better job of creating ties to its local market than a T14 does to its local market). Also, while Las Vegas is going to be a fairly small legal market, it's a town that outsiders move to all the time, which I think helps. But it would make sense to explore the market and find out from lawyers in the area how they view local ties.

(It's also perfectly fair game to ask people why they want to go to a particular school.)

I had no idea that employers would care that we weren't native Nevadans....I thought attending UNLV (and doing well there) would be sufficient to get into the legal market. Is that not true...?

Also: We were both history majors at a T1 undergrad school in Pennsylvania. So not super-helpful outside of academia.

[magicmagic]

Also, if you've only been to LV on vacation, spend time away from the strip. I've seen a few sides of Vegas away from the strip. There are different Vegas IMO.

The Strip/Dt tourist vegas.
Henderson/small town conservative USA (a lot of Mormons.)
Suburbia.
The ghetto.

I suppose that could be most cities. Still Vegas can be either sleepy or seedy aside from tourism. I thonk it would be a nice place to live, though.
Low COL and good options for entertainment!

Low COL is a hugeeeee bonus!! Plus no state income tax.

[landshoes]

It is absolutely ridiculous for us to attend a T2 school considering our numbers?

You, yes. Them, maybe not.

There is no "we" in this situation. There's no "we" unless it's your kid. Seriously, so many people make this mistake. I'm sure you're very much in love, but this is a one-time shot to set yourself up for the rest of your life.

They should consider something besides law, and should move to follow you. You should go to the law school that would give you the best benefit possible in exchange for the tuition, COL, 3 years of opportunity costs, and degree that will be on your resume forever.

You currently have the higher ability to earn. It is unwise in the extreme to let the lower-earning-capacity partner drag down the earning capacity of the higher-earning partner. I'm guessing from your willingness to do this that you're a woman, and let me just say now that this kind of thing is wasteful of your natural ability, and it's silly. You have earning power, and you owe it to yourself (and to your kids, if you plan to have them) to maximize your personal earning potential. You can scale back later, but it's very very hard to put yourself back in the position that you are ready to give up.

If your partner absolutely must go to law school, and you absolutely must be in the same place as them for the entire three years, please reconsider areas where there are both higher-ranked and lower-ranked schools so you can go to a school that will actually give you a return on your substantial investment.

New York has NYU/Columbia and Brooklyn/Cardozo/NYLS/Rutgers.

Chicago has U of C, Northwestern, DePaul, Kent, John Marshall, etc.

DC has Georgetown, GW, and American.

Denver/Boulder has CU-Boulder and DU. (CU-Boulder isn't really good enough for your stats but it's better than UNLV.)

Boston has Harvard, BC/BU, and Northeastern.

Not as familiar with CA and TX, but they have similar pairings IIRC.

All of these options are about a million times more sensible than what you propose to do.

[Tls2016]

The LST report shows salary reported from less than half the class. I will say again that salary will be less than you expect and I have misgivings about either of you practicing what you think will be your specialty.

You need to be in the desert for more than short visits to see if you can stand it. The heat and lack of changing seasons can be tough for someone from the NE.

We're flexible with our specialties--we wouldn't be completely heartbroken if we ended up doing something else--but my point is that we have specific law-related interests and have (tentative) plans. UNLV has a specific health law program (something Iowa doesn't have), as well as a conflict resolution program that LP really likes.

I also think it's a little condescending to assume that we can't possibly know if Nevada is the right place for us. Moving across the country is a huge decision that we've put a lot of thought into. Neither of us have ever felt any affinity to the NE, but we love every part of Nevada (Vegas, Reno, the in-between desert, summer, winter, mountains, desert, all of it).

The OP's numbers are in their OP.

And I do think you can create ties in law school by attending the local flagship (I actually think the local flagship does a better job of creating ties to its local market than a T14 does to its local market). Also, while Las Vegas is going to be a fairly small legal market, it's a town that outsiders move to all the time, which I think helps. But it would make sense to explore the market and find out from lawyers in the area how they view local ties.

(It's also perfectly fair game to ask people why they want to go to a particular school.)

I had no idea that employers would care that we weren't native Nevadans....I thought attending UNLV (and doing well there) would be sufficient to get into the legal market. Is that not true...?

Also: We were both history majors at a T1 undergrad school in Pennsylvania. So not super-helpful outside of academia.

I've known people who thought they would love Santa Fe after visiting and moved from New York but hated the actual day to day lifestyle. It won't be easy to move back to the NE from UNLV should you not like it, which was part of my concern.

As you can see the response to your question is much different when people know you are moving to a small market instead of going to school where you have established ties.

Good luck.