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I got a 163 on the December LSAT and have a 4.16 GPA (no A-'s just A/A+) with crazy good extracurriculars and a pretty good PS. But we're pretty late into the cycle and I am worried I won't get into any T14 schools which is where I'm really aiming. Should I even bother applying this cycle? I might re-take a third time, but honestly that might not matter if I apply as soon as applications open in Fall...thoughts?

Also important to note. It's JANUARY and I STILL haven't applied!!!!

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Definitely retake and apply early next cycle. Your GPA is outstanding and a few more points will give you a lot more options in the T14 and if you get into the 170s and that will open up even more. Was this your first take/can you retake in June?

I am North African so on applications that equals White/Caucasian. But I mention it in my diversity statement. This was my second take that I got a 163. I would love to get into UPenn, UVA or Cornell but I know I'm on the low end of their 25th percentiles. I'm not too worried about scholarships right now, and I know I'm far too late in the cycle for scholarships.

Sit out a cycle, study hard and nail that last retake. Even upper 160's will get you better admissions outcomes and low 170's will see you in the T14 with money.

The problem is I'm not 100% confident that I can get my score up 4+ points. What are thoughts on sitting out a cycle and not re-taking? I feel like getting a 165 wouldn't make a huge difference on a third re-take.

Also, just to clarify, the consensus seems to be "DO NOT APPLY"?

hew wrote:The problem is I'm not 100% confident that I can get my score up 4+ points. What are thoughts on sitting out a cycle and not re-taking? I feel like getting a 165 wouldn't make a huge difference on a third re-take.

There is literally no reason not to retake. And you can absolutely bring your score up if you're committed and/or get help.

It all depends on your goals and how much debt you're willing to assume. If you're set on starting in Fall 2016 you have a fairly good chance at Cornell or Georgetown with your current numbers, though it will likely be at full sticker. The same goes for Virginia - they give a significant "boost" to early decision applicants and ED applications are still open for this cycle, though again you will be paying full sticker.

I don't get why you wouldn't just put African American on your apps but w/e

You should definitely apply. You already have your PS, which is typically the longest part of the application, so you should be able to finish applying in a week, maximum. You'll still have close to 5 months to study, which is plenty to raise your score by 5+ points.

Focus on lower T14 and other schools like Fordham, BC, BU, Vanderbilt, UCLA, USC, UT, and maybe WUSTL (these schools have a track record of placing 25%-35% of its grads into BigLaw, which isn't too bad for non T14's). You are competitive at at least 3 of these schools. Deposit at the highest BigLaw feeder school that admits you, then retake in June. If your score doesn't see a significant improvement (< 2 points), then matriculate at the school you accepted this cycle. If your score does improve to 168+, then reapply next cycle.

pittsburghpirates wrote:Definitely retake and apply early next cycle. Your GPA is outstanding and a few more points will give you a lot more options in the T14 and if you get into the 170s and that will open up even more.

Absolutely do this, OP. Good luck!

Hmmm I'm just reading this and seems a bitt odd. Many of the schools have a 163 25th LSAT percentile. Are you all saying that everyone below or at that (25% of the class) is a URM? With an over 4.0 GPA I'd have to imagine you have a chance at any school you meet the 25 percentile of LSAT score.

fooniff33 wrote:Hmmm I'm just reading this and seems a bitt odd. Many of the schools have a 163 25th LSAT percentile. Are you all saying that everyone below or at that (25% of the class) is a URM? With an over 4.0 GPA I'd have to imagine you have a chance at any school you meet the 25 percentile of LSAT score.

My guess is that for a splitter, having a 75th % LSAT + 25th % GPA would have a better chance than someone with 25th % LSAT + 75th % GPA because LSAT tends to weigh more heavily. If anyone can comment on this it'd be great.

CPAlawHopefu wrote:

fooniff33 wrote:Hmmm I'm just reading this and seems a bitt odd. Many of the schools have a 163 25th LSAT percentile. Are you all saying that everyone below or at that (25% of the class) is a URM? With an over 4.0 GPA I'd have to imagine you have a chance at any school you meet the 25 percentile of LSAT score.

My guess is that for a splitter, having a 75th % LSAT + 25th % GPA would have a better chance than someone with 25th % LSAT + 75th % GPA because LSAT tends to weigh more heavily. If anyone can comment on this it'd be great.

That is no doubt.

rnoodles22 wrote:

pittsburghpirates wrote:Definitely retake and apply early next cycle. Your GPA is outstanding and a few more points will give you a lot more options in the T14 and if you get into the 170s and that will open up even more.

Absolutely do this, OP. Good luck!

Definitely this. OP you can do better than a 163.

CPAlawHopefu wrote:

fooniff33 wrote:Hmmm I'm just reading this and seems a bitt odd. Many of the schools have a 163 25th LSAT percentile. Are you all saying that everyone below or at that (25% of the class) is a URM? With an over 4.0 GPA I'd have to imagine you have a chance at any school you meet the 25 percentile of LSAT score.

My guess is that for a splitter, having a 75th % LSAT + 25th % GPA would have a better chance than someone with 25th % LSAT + 75th % GPA because LSAT tends to weigh more heavily. If anyone can comment on this it'd be great.

It's absolutely true. I got waitlisted/rejected from schools where I was at or above the 75th GPA but at or below the 25th LSAT. High GPAs are much easier to come by than are 170+ scores.

Even if you do get into schools with a 4.16/163, you may not get as much money as you'd want, OP. And personally, I don't think anyone should ever waste a 4.16 when they have a legitimate and very real shot at 170+. We're talking HYS or CCN w/ $$$ or settling for like Cornell at sticker or slightly less (not to knock Cornell, but cmon OP, it's free money).

Helioze wrote:I don't get why you wouldn't just put African American on your apps but w/e

If OP is black and from North Africa they might feel comfortable checking the African-American box (or might not) but there are also tens of millions of brown people in North Africa, like non-black Arabs, who likely would never check the "African-American" box because it symbolizes someone who has black skin.

I'm in a similar boat and wrote a DS that listed my race/ethnicity but checked the "other race" box or declined to state if there was no "other race" box because I do not identify as "white" - even though I will be recorded as such because in the U.S. "White" = anyone who is of European, Middle Eastern, or North African descent. It's fucked up.

Anyway, OP, your numbers are great. Sit out this cycle, study and chill, and apply early Sept/Oct.

I'm not putting African American because it specifically states on their website that North African is considered White. I'm so hesitant to not apply with the score I have now. Am I wrong to think that applying with this same score would give me a better chance applying early in the next cycle? On the chance that I don't raise my score

hew wrote:I'm not putting African American because it specifically states on their website that North African is considered White. I'm so hesitant to not apply with the score I have now. Am I wrong to think that applying with this same score would give me a better chance applying early in the next cycle? On the chance that I don't raise my score

What's stopping you from applying right now? You said money wasn't the issue, so what do you have to lose? Your score is high enough that you could gain admission to some top 25 and even t20 schools if your softs are as strong as you say. The worst you'd get is a rejection, but it won't do anything to lower your chance of admission when you apply next cycle. You could even finish applying this weekend if you tried. There is no guarantee that your score will increase on the next exam, so what would happen then? If you are one of those t14-or-bust type, then applying next cycle in September/October won't make any difference in you admission to t14 with the numbers you have. Then what? A year would've go by without gaining anything, and that's just a waste of time. Just apply now and see what you get.

What's stopping me is if I don't get in, then I am in a worse position when re-applying. My LSAT score would HAVE to go up significantly to have a shot at any of the schools to which I applied. If I do have to take a year off, I am definitely making it an unforgettable year that would look great for law school applications. My biggest concern is not raising my score enough, and having to apply with the same score and then being in this same position in fall. But at least then I would be earlier in the admissions cycle.

If I apply now, as in send in my applications so that they are seen on Monday, am I too late in the cycle?

hew wrote:What's stopping me is if I don't get in, then I am in a worse position when re-applying.

I'm not understanding your logic here. Even if you end up getting rejections from every school to which you apply this year, it should have no impact when you apply to the same schools on the next cycle.

My LSAT score would HAVE to go up significantly to have a shot at any of the schools to which I applied. If I do have to take a year off, I am definitely making it an unforgettable year that would look great for law school applications. My biggest concern is not raising my score enough, and having to apply with the same score and then being in this same position in fall. But at least then I would be earlier in the admissions cycle.

That is precisely the reason why you should apply this cycle. If your June exam doesn't perform well, you will at least have a school to matriculate in August/September. If you get rejected from every school, you still won't have anything to lose. If you do not apply this cycle and end up with a sub-par score in June, you'll be in the same situation as now with no where to go. Then you will essentially be getting the same result on the next cycle as you would on this cycle. It's a year wasted.

If I apply now, as in send in my applications so that they are seen on Monday, am I too late in the cycle?

Apply and see. If you didn't have a PS and LOR ready, then I would tell you to forget about applying and focus on the exam instead since the whole application process could take you several weeks. But you are basically done with the hard part, all you need to do is fill in the basic information on the application and hit send.

I got in! Thanks for all the advice guys...will be attending UVA was top choice so pretty excited.