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PJam1989 wrote:I am American Indian. Have grown up my entire life being told I am American Indian. I identify myself as being part American Indian. However, I am not part of a tribe. I do not have a tribe number. In other words, I have lived my life thus far just identifying myself as being partially American Indian knowing that the minority status comes from my mother's side. When I applied to law schools last year, I only labeled myself as white in my applications because I was under the impression that, without a tribal number, you cannot label yourself as partially being American Indian on a college application.

With this in mind, should I list myself as being American Indian in my application? Again, only partial, not full. And again, not part of a tribe or anything to that effect.

If you actually are part NA, identify as such (and have for some time), and know the tribe or tribes your NA ancestor(s) are from, then you should self-identify as NA on the app and mark down the tribe(s). I'd be very wary about marking down NA without even so much as knowing what tribe.

For myself, I'm part NA but not an enrolled member, so I put down the name of the tribe, but put the enrollment number as "N/A". The app will probably indicate to you how the school will treat it. I've had apps that simply ask for tribe and enrollment number, and other apps additionally ask, "if not enrolled, are you eligible for enrollment". Very different sets of questions.

I wondered about that question when I saw it. I have Native American ancestry and have been told in the past that it was enough to qualify for special scholarships and things, but it would've seemed disingenuous to do so. I haven't experienced anything negative because of it, and my appearance reflects European ancestry, so I would have felt like a total liar taking advantage of it now. I would say if you identify as NA then there's nothing wrong with it, but you might check into enrolling with a tribe. Idk, I would think that some AdComms might be a little wary that you could be someone trying to game the system (like I would've been) if you can't at least provide some further information.

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mintme wrote:

Scalvert wrote:I wondered about that question when I saw it. I have Native American ancestry and have been told in the past that it was enough to qualify for special scholarships and things, but it would've seemed disingenuous to do so. I haven't experienced anything negative because of it, and my appearance reflects European ancestry, so I would have felt like a total liar taking advantage of it now. I would say if you identify as NA then there's nothing wrong with it, but you might check into enrolling with a tribe. Idk, I would think that some AdComms might be a little wary that you could be someone trying to game the system (like I would've been) if you can't at least provide some further information.

Unfortunately, OP likely doesn't have enough time to prove his ancestry and enroll in his tribe. At least for my tribe, it can take years to do so.

I wonder if providing an intent to enroll would be enough - or something along those lines. (maybe some sort of documentation from a family member?) I'm not sure how AdComms view this, or whether proof is even necessary, but it would be a shame to not be able to reap benefits to which you're entitled.

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Scalvert wrote:I wondered about that question when I saw it. I have Native American ancestry and have been told in the past that it was enough to qualify for special scholarships and things, but it would've seemed disingenuous to do so. I haven't experienced anything negative because of it, and my appearance reflects European ancestry, so I would have felt like a total liar taking advantage of it now.

I never get how people even obtain this approach, like the whole point of being outside the racial/cultural majority is experiencing hate and oppression. I've known black people who, according to them, never experienced racism in their entire lives. You can mark yourself down as AA, even if it hasn't significantly affected your life in a negative way. You can mark yourself down as a woman, even if you haven't been abused by a boyfriend or experienced workplace discrimination because of it. Likewise, if a law school asked about your Irish ancestry, you wouldn't say you're not Irish just because you haven't been denied a job for being Irish. And what you "look" like doesn't matter - you should not deny entire chunks of your, or anyone else's ancestry because of appearances: this would be like denying someone's Irish ancestry because they're black. What cultural aspects you bring from your background is far more important than how you look - its so unfortunate that so many people, especially schools, worry about diversity of looks. A Sami white boy who speaks three languages and grew up in the traditional Sami way (this, btw, is no rarity in Sami culture) brings far more diversity to a school than a black boy who grew up with middle-class parents in the suburb and went to a prep school, but so many people think its just about what you look like.

The application asks you what race(s) you self-identify as, so here's the key: do you self-identify as NA? If yes, then mark it down. A lot of people "look" white (or black) but have some NA ancestry, but their whole life when talking about their ancestry they've mentioned that they're part NA - then yeah, mark it down. But if you've got some tiny trace that you've pretty much never acknowledged, then don't mark it down.

tvu wrote:

PJam1989 wrote:I am American Indian. Have grown up my entire life being told I am American Indian. I identify myself as being part American Indian. However, I am not part of a tribe. I do not have a tribe number. In other words, I have lived my life thus far just identifying myself as being partially American Indian knowing that the minority status comes from my mother's side. When I applied to law schools last year, I only labeled myself as white in my applications because I was under the impression that, without a tribal number, you cannot label yourself as partially being American Indian on a college application.

With this in mind, should I list myself as being American Indian in my application? Again, only partial, not full. And again, not part of a tribe or anything to that effect.

My two cents is, that if you self-identify as part NA, then you should identify yourself like that. Then write about it in your diversity statement if you have a chance and describe your connection to that culture through your mother's side.

+1 - it actually doesn't need to be any longer than that

There was someone in my cycle who had applied the previous cycle as an un-enrolled NA URM, and had received no substantial boost. By the time he was applying during my cycle, he had obtained enrollment, and proceeded to enjoy a significant URM boost.

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Do you know how many generations removed you are? For example, my great-great-grandmother was full-blooded Cherokee. That makes me 1/16 Cherokee. This is technically enough for admissions/scholarship purposes (and my family is on the Dawes Roll, so I can prove my affiliation). However, I chose not to put it because it seemed disingenuous—I look white, I practice no Native American cultural practices, I don't know a single member of my family who is still in the tribe, I know nothing about Cherokees other than that my great-great-grandmother was one. As a result, I don't actually identify as Native American, so I didn't put it.

That being said, there is a generational point in which you do not qualify. So how many generations back are you? (If you don't know, this will likely not be enough to get a boost. I had a friend who did claim it (he is 1/8) and he was required to provide family history and proof of tribal affiliation at the school he enrolled at).

Troianii wrote:

Scalvert wrote:I wondered about that question when I saw it. I have Native American ancestry and have been told in the past that it was enough to qualify for special scholarships and things, but it would've seemed disingenuous to do so. I haven't experienced anything negative because of it, and my appearance reflects European ancestry, so I would have felt like a total liar taking advantage of it now.

I never get how people even obtain this approach, like the whole point of being outside the racial/cultural majority is experiencing hate and oppression. I've known black people who, according to them, never experienced racism in their entire lives. You can mark yourself down as AA, even if it hasn't significantly affected your life in a negative way. You can mark yourself down as a woman, even if you haven't been abused by a boyfriend or experienced workplace discrimination because of it. Likewise, if a law school asked about your Irish ancestry, you wouldn't say you're not Irish just because you haven't been denied a job for being Irish. And what you "look" like doesn't matter - you should not deny entire chunks of your, or anyone else's ancestry because of appearances: this would be like denying someone's Irish ancestry because they're black. What cultural aspects you bring from your background is far more important than how you look - its so unfortunate that so many people, especially schools, worry about diversity of looks. A Sami white boy who speaks three languages and grew up in the traditional Sami way (this, btw, is no rarity in Sami culture) brings far more diversity to a school than a black boy who grew up with middle-class parents in the suburb and went to a prep school, but so many people think its just about what you look like.

The application asks you what race(s) you self-identify as, so here's the key: do you self-identify as NA? If yes, then mark it down. A lot of people "look" white (or black) but have some NA ancestry, but their whole life when talking about their ancestry they've mentioned that they're part NA - then yeah, mark it down. But if you've got some tiny trace that you've pretty much never acknowledged, then don't mark it down.

I agree with you 100%. Perhaps what I said was badly worded. I do know of people (My mother was born in OK and still lives near there) who never identified as NA but when they discovered they could benefit from doing so, suddenly they wanted to - because of no other reason than money. I didn't mean to imply that looks mattered. I meant it more as part of my explanation as to why I would personally feel wrong about it. NA culture has not been a part of my life; my maternal great- great grandmother was Cherokee, and I also have Cherokee ancestry on my father's side, but none of my family ever seemed to identify with that heritage. I completely agree that identification is what matters, but wanted to say that adcomms may request further info because there are people who may not be entirely truthful on their app (I've seen it happen) and OP should be prepared in case he/she is asked for more info.

emkay625 wrote:Do you know how many generations removed you are? For example, my great-great-grandmother was full-blooded Cherokee. That makes me 1/16 Cherokee. This is technically enough for admissions/scholarship purposes (and my family is on the Dawes Roll, so I can prove my affiliation). However, I chose not to put it because it seemed disingenuous—I look white, I practice no Native American cultural practices, I don't know a single member of my family who is still in the tribe, I know nothing about Cherokees other than that my great-great-grandmother was one. As a result, I don't actually identify as Native American, so I didn't put it.

That being said, there is a generational point in which you do not qualify. So how many generations back are you? (If you don't know, this will likely not be enough to get a boost. I had a friend who did claim it (he is 1/8) and he was required to provide family history and proof of tribal affiliation at the school he enrolled at).

This describes me exactly, only you explained it much better than I did.

PJam1989 wrote:I just don't want to get into serious trouble for labeling myself as being American Indian and not having a number or any real proof.

I also don't want any admissions committee to look at me less favorably than they would have had I just labeled myself as being white. In other words, I don't want them to think that I am taking advantage of the system, and trying to gain admission in a sleazy way.

You might contact admissions at the schools you're interested in and see what information they require. There may be some other documentation you can provide that's easier and quicker to obtain that they will accept. Maybe info from a close family member?

Scalvert wrote:

Troianii wrote:

Scalvert wrote:I wondered about that question when I saw it. I have Native American ancestry and have been told in the past that it was enough to qualify for special scholarships and things, but it would've seemed disingenuous to do so. I haven't experienced anything negative because of it, and my appearance reflects European ancestry, so I would have felt like a total liar taking advantage of it now.

I never get how people even obtain this approach, like the whole point of being outside the racial/cultural majority is experiencing hate and oppression. I've known black people who, according to them, never experienced racism in their entire lives. You can mark yourself down as AA, even if it hasn't significantly affected your life in a negative way. You can mark yourself down as a woman, even if you haven't been abused by a boyfriend or experienced workplace discrimination because of it. Likewise, if a law school asked about your Irish ancestry, you wouldn't say you're not Irish just because you haven't been denied a job for being Irish. And what you "look" like doesn't matter - you should not deny entire chunks of your, or anyone else's ancestry because of appearances: this would be like denying someone's Irish ancestry because they're black. What cultural aspects you bring from your background is far more important than how you look - its so unfortunate that so many people, especially schools, worry about diversity of looks. A Sami white boy who speaks three languages and grew up in the traditional Sami way (this, btw, is no rarity in Sami culture) brings far more diversity to a school than a black boy who grew up with middle-class parents in the suburb and went to a prep school, but so many people think its just about what you look like.

The application asks you what race(s) you self-identify as, so here's the key: do you self-identify as NA? If yes, then mark it down. A lot of people "look" white (or black) but have some NA ancestry, but their whole life when talking about their ancestry they've mentioned that they're part NA - then yeah, mark it down. But if you've got some tiny trace that you've pretty much never acknowledged, then don't mark it down.

I agree with you 100%. Perhaps what I said was badly worded. I do know of people (My mother was born in OK and still lives near there) who never identified as NA but when they discovered they could benefit from doing so, suddenly they wanted to - because of no other reason than money. I didn't mean to imply that looks mattered. I meant it more as part of my explanation as to why I would personally feel wrong about it. NA culture has not been a part of my life; my maternal great- great grandmother was Cherokee, and I also have Cherokee ancestry on my father's side, but none of my family ever seemed to identify with that heritage. I completely agree that identification is what matters, but wanted to say that adcomms may request further info because there are people who may not be entirely truthful on their app (I've seen it happen) and OP should be prepared in case he/she is asked for more info.

Ok that all sounds right. Also let me apologize - my last post seems to read more explosive and aggressive than I previously thought.

Nobody here can tell how what to mark on your apps because nobody here can tell you how you identify. The race/ethnicity questions are very simple. 1) Are you Hispanic/Latino? If no, mark no. 2) Mark the race(s) with which you identify yourself. If you select both White and NA, then you may get prompted to provide tribal enrollment info. If you don't have that info, leave the section black or write that that info doesn't apply to you. Schools will make their decisions based on the info you provide. Identify as you always have. What did you mark on your college applications?

On a side note, I think that many people conveniently remember their NA distant ancestors come application time, and that is why adcomms do not apply a boost uniformly to all NA identified candidates. If you look on LSN you will see that the NA boost is very unpredictable. For you best chance at a boost, you should be enrolled and write a compelling DS about your ties to your NA community. The DOE definition for NA goes beyond blood. It states that someone should identify as NA who is both descended from Native people AND who maintains a tribal/ cultural connection to one or more NA groups.

Troianii wrote:

Scalvert wrote:

Troianii wrote:

Scalvert wrote:I wondered about that question when I saw it. I have Native American ancestry and have been told in the past that it was enough to qualify for special scholarships and things, but it would've seemed disingenuous to do so. I haven't experienced anything negative because of it, and my appearance reflects European ancestry, so I would have felt like a total liar taking advantage of it now.

I never get how people even obtain this approach, like the whole point of being outside the racial/cultural majority is experiencing hate and oppression. I've known black people who, according to them, never experienced racism in their entire lives. You can mark yourself down as AA, even if it hasn't significantly affected your life in a negative way. You can mark yourself down as a woman, even if you haven't been abused by a boyfriend or experienced workplace discrimination because of it. Likewise, if a law school asked about your Irish ancestry, you wouldn't say you're not Irish just because you haven't been denied a job for being Irish. And what you "look" like doesn't matter - you should not deny entire chunks of your, or anyone else's ancestry because of appearances: this would be like denying someone's Irish ancestry because they're black. What cultural aspects you bring from your background is far more important than how you look - its so unfortunate that so many people, especially schools, worry about diversity of looks. A Sami white boy who speaks three languages and grew up in the traditional Sami way (this, btw, is no rarity in Sami culture) brings far more diversity to a school than a black boy who grew up with middle-class parents in the suburb and went to a prep school, but so many people think its just about what you look like.

The application asks you what race(s) you self-identify as, so here's the key: do you self-identify as NA? If yes, then mark it down. A lot of people "look" white (or black) but have some NA ancestry, but their whole life when talking about their ancestry they've mentioned that they're part NA - then yeah, mark it down. But if you've got some tiny trace that you've pretty much never acknowledged, then don't mark it down.

I agree with you 100%. Perhaps what I said was badly worded. I do know of people (My mother was born in OK and still lives near there) who never identified as NA but when they discovered they could benefit from doing so, suddenly they wanted to - because of no other reason than money. I didn't mean to imply that looks mattered. I meant it more as part of my explanation as to why I would personally feel wrong about it. NA culture has not been a part of my life; my maternal great- great grandmother was Cherokee, and I also have Cherokee ancestry on my father's side, but none of my family ever seemed to identify with that heritage. I completely agree that identification is what matters, but wanted to say that adcomms may request further info because there are people who may not be entirely truthful on their app (I've seen it happen) and OP should be prepared in case he/she is asked for more info.

Ok that all sounds right. Also let me apologize - my last post seems to read more explosive and aggressive than I previously thought.

No problem! I can see your point. What I said initially was not worded well.