Tiny123 wrote:I am now in the progress of picking the law schools I want to apply, I been reading the Employment data and I am a little confused.
So all of you guys are talking about big law rate, but some of the schools I want to apply to have more people end up with "Government" jobs than law firm jobs, is that bad? or good?
For example W&M last year had 37 people goes to big law and 50+ takes government jobs..
Is that means I should not apply to W&M if I cant work the government? (Non-US citizen)
Here is W&M salary report
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wm/sals/2013/
Here is W&M jobs report
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/wm/jobs/2013/
People look at it different ways, and at TLS most just look at big law, where typically you're looking at starting out at or near 160k. What you're really trying to gauge is how much a given law school gives you an opportunity to graduate and get a good paying job.
Many will disagree with this, but IMO these are the things you want to be looking for, in order:
1. Unemployment. For W&M, 9.2% of graduates don't land jobs within 9 months. Obviously the first thing you should be looking to ensure is that you actually have a job after you graduate (far better to have a 50k/yr public sector job than no job, if you ask me), but if you're set on being a lawyer the 9% figure isn't actually that bad. Based on LST info from 2013, Yale grads had an unemployment rate of 8.7%, so IMO anything under 10% is acceptable (though note that for Harvard it was 0.3%, which is one of the many reasons why IMO Harvard has always been and remains #1 - the Yale hype, imo, is overdone).
2. bar-passage employment: these are people who get jobs that actually require bar-passage. For W&M, that's 79.3% (Yale has 90.3%). Excluding school funded jobs, there isn't anything wrong with jobs that prefer JDs - called "JD Advantage" [see Houston - 2nd tier law school, but its grads make bank and often go to JD Advantage jobs]. But the bar-passage required is a good figure to go on, because the JD Advantage jobs are an unreliable measure (Houston has an energy sector niche).
3. $. This is again my opinion, but I think you should be looking at how many of a schools grads start out earning six figures.For W&M, it's something around 20-25%.
3.a. you should also look for how many report salaries. For W&M, roughly one out of five who enter the private sector don't report their salaries. IMO this is not something to be worried about, since it isn't a huge proportion, but there are schools whose grads seemingly get great salaries, but then the majority of their grads entering the private sector don't report salaries. This is cause to be wary of the figures.
3.b. you should also bear in mind how many of their grads enter the public sector. First, this greatly drags down the median salary for grads (which, for W&M, is 80k). But it can also be a loose indicator of difficulty getting good jobs in the private sector. FROM WHAT I'VE READ, a lot of law school applicants talk about their desire to enter public service but then - if they're able to get a high paying private sector job - rarely stick with public service.
And of course, it could be that there is a huge emphasis on public law at the school and that many students there just want to go into the public sector - but that seems at minimum a somewhat dubious claim on the large scale.
TLS will crap on public service law without end, but I think it isn't as bad as people suggest. It's mostly a personal values issue. I don't want to become a lawyer to live like I'm in The Wolf of Wall Street, I just want a good quality of life - decent pay, a rewarding career, and a work schedule that will still allow me to have a personal life. The reality is that if you enter big law, where the big bucks are - you'll be working insane hours, especially as a junior attorney. Expect to work 70 or more a week (at least in your first few years - it should go down over time as you learn to work more efficiently). IMO, working at a medium private firm or in a good public sector job - where 55k+ starting is reasonable (though not always to be expected in public law) - with something more around 45 or 50 hrs a week, give or take a little bit, is preferable by far. But that's my take on it - most of TLS would disagree and prefer the big bucks.
First are directly related, second grouping is somewhat related. The esblog, though it is a blog, has a chart that seems particularly informative. Some of the things I've read are from less reputable sources (like ehow or whatever), or from forums (to include this one, but others as well), and I haven't included those.