Page 1 of 3
An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:01 am
by 180orRetake
I’ve seen a few people talk about the possibility of certain schools slipping into or out of the t14. This is a nonsensical discussion. After all, the relative prestige of the “t14” stems from the specific schools that have historically occupied this list, NOT from the fact that these schools happen to be ranked in the top 14 of a list. For example, if UT-Austin were to supplant GULC in the t14, UT-A would not suddenly be accorded the same t-14 prestige; similarly, GULC would not be divested of theirs. This is why the threshold for special status starts at the seemingly arbitrary number of “t14” and not something more intuitive like “t10”, “t15”, or “t20”.
Cliffnotes: conversations regarding schools being added/lost to the t14 are incoherent. If this were to happen in the rankings, the entire t14 concept would cease to exist and break off into a parallel universe.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:06 am
by Clemenceau
With the exception of some 0L newbies, we all knew that already.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:13 am
by 180orRetake
Clemenceau wrote:With the exception of some 0L newbies, we all knew that already.
I've seen it talked about quite a bit here. Congrats on not being a 0L newbie, by the way.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:16 am
by dwyf
Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:20 am
by 180orRetake
dwyf wrote:Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
Could be. But the point is that the t14 is accorded special status because of the specific schools that are contained therein. Again, if UT-A and GULC were to swap in the rankings, the notion of t14 would be replaced with "t13 & t15".
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:21 am
by abl
dwyf wrote:Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
This.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:26 am
by 180orRetake
abl wrote:dwyf wrote:Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
This.
But what's the implication?
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:26 am
by theotherone823
dwyf wrote:Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
Yes, this is correct. The other distinction often drawn is that a degree from a T14 is considered more portable and has a mostly national reach, while schools from even immediately outside of the T14 (UT, Vandy, UCLA, etc.) are much more local and not as transferable across the country.
The important thing to remember is that the T14 are ranked the highest by USNWR because they are the most prestigious. They are not the most prestigious because they are ranked the highest.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:31 am
by 180orRetake
theotherone823 wrote:dwyf wrote:Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
Yes, this is correct. The other distinction often drawn is that a degree from a T14 is considered more portable and has a mostly national reach, while schools from even immediately outside of the T14 (UT, Vandy, UCLA, etc.) are much more local and not as transferable across the country.
The important thing to remember is that the T14 are ranked the highest by USNWR because they are the most prestigious.
They are not the most prestigious because they are ranked the highest.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:47 am
by Iwanttolawschool
Every person discussing the t14 changing has been in jest, followed by some aspie not getting satire and freaking out.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:49 am
by abl
180orRetake wrote:abl wrote:dwyf wrote:Do I remember that all of the t14 schools were at one time or another in the top 10, and that no non-t14 has ever cracked the top 10?
This.
But what's the implication?
For a school to break into the T14, it'd have to be ranked in the top 10. That's a substantially taller order than simply UT nudging out Georgetown or Cornell at 14. Moreover, at this point it'd probably have to happen in a way that didn't look like a fluke--the top 14 have become very well established in folk's minds. Because it's not as simple as UT or UCLA having an unusually good rankings year, I think it's fair to assume that for a new school to join the T14, there would have to be a noticeable accompanying shift in respective prestige and success--which is unlikely to happen anytime soon because the t14 is pretty darn self perpetuating. Expect this T14 change, if it comes, to be a trailing indicator: folks will pretty definitely understand that UT or wherever is deserving of a place among the elite national schools before it becomes recognized via the rankings. But don't hold your breath: each year it doesn't happen more firmly establishes the T14 and makes it marginally less likely to change. Finally, at the point some change happens (and I'd be shocked if it never happens--but I'd similarly be shocked if it happens in the decade), I'd expect it to change to T15.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:02 am
by Kinky John
Iwanttolawschool wrote:Every person discussing the t14 changing has been in jest, followed by some aspie not getting satire and freaking out.
^you're clueless. I have it on good authority that Berkeley will no longer be a T14 school come rankings time. 166 is a TTT median.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:18 am
by Iwanttolawschool
Kinky John wrote:Iwanttolawschool wrote:Every person discussing the t14 changing has been in jest, followed by some aspie not getting satire and freaking out.
^you're clueless. I have it on good authority that Berkeley will no longer be a T14 school come rankings time. 166 is a TTT median.
Well that one doesn't count, because UCLA and Berkley are just swapping spots apparently.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:21 am
by Kinky John
Iwanttolawschool wrote:Kinky John wrote:Iwanttolawschool wrote:Every person discussing the t14 changing has been in jest, followed by some aspie not getting satire and freaking out.
^you're clueless. I have it on good authority that Berkeley will no longer be a T14 school come rankings time. 166 is a TTT median.
Well that one doesn't count, because UCLA and Berkley are just swapping spots apparently.
Berklee's decline is reflective of an overall trend in Californian law school applicants IMO so I don't see that happening.
edit: glad we have another thread discussing this prestigious topic
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:47 pm
by Tiago Splitter
abl wrote: Expect this T14 change, if it comes, to be a trailing indicator: folks will pretty definitely understand that UT or wherever is deserving of a place among the elite national schools before it becomes recognized via the rankings. But don't hold your breath: each year it doesn't happen more firmly establishes the T14 and makes it marginally less likely to change. Finally, at the point some change happens (and I'd be shocked if it never happens--but I'd similarly be shocked if it happens in the decade), I'd expect it to change to T15.
A couple years back Texas was tied with Georgetown at 14 in the US News Rankings.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:49 pm
by 071816
I heard penn state was top 10 lol
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:25 pm
by jbagelboy
this very premise of this discussion simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:16 pm
by 180orRetake
jbagelboy wrote:this very premise of this discussion simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students.
dude are you seriously that dense? the entire premise of this discussion was actually to explicitly highlight and undermine that misconception. lmao. WOW.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:23 pm
by abl
Tiago Splitter wrote:abl wrote: Expect this T14 change, if it comes, to be a trailing indicator: folks will pretty definitely understand that UT or wherever is deserving of a place among the elite national schools before it becomes recognized via the rankings. But don't hold your breath: each year it doesn't happen more firmly establishes the T14 and makes it marginally less likely to change. Finally, at the point some change happens (and I'd be shocked if it never happens--but I'd similarly be shocked if it happens in the decade), I'd expect it to change to T15.
A couple years back Texas was tied with Georgetown at 14 in the US News Rankings.
Sure. So what?
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:26 pm
by Tiago Splitter
abl wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:abl wrote: Expect this T14 change, if it comes, to be a trailing indicator: folks will pretty definitely understand that UT or wherever is deserving of a place among the elite national schools before it becomes recognized via the rankings. But don't hold your breath: each year it doesn't happen more firmly establishes the T14 and makes it marginally less likely to change. Finally, at the point some change happens (and I'd be shocked if it never happens--but I'd similarly be shocked if it happens in the decade), I'd expect it to change to T15.
A couple years back Texas was tied with Georgetown at 14 in the US News Rankings.
Sure. So what?
?
People didn't recognize UT as a T14 but it still got there.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:27 pm
by jbagelboy
180orRetake wrote:jbagelboy wrote:this very premise of this discussion simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students.
dude are you seriously that dense? the entire premise of this discussion was actually to explicitly highlight and undermine that misconception. lmao. WOW.
you misunderstand me. I wasn't talking about what you said in your OP; I'm referring to discussions on this subject generally. your OP is obviously true, I don't think anyone thinks otherwise.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:27 pm
by hairbear7
TCR is still to go to the highest ranked school you get into, right?
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:28 pm
by Desert Fox
180orRetake wrote:jbagelboy wrote:this very premise of this discussion simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students.
dude are you seriously that dense? the entire premise of this discussion was actually to explicitly highlight and undermine that misconception. lmao. WOW.
Hey retard, this thread is filled with stupid T14= Any school every in the T10 rationalization, which "simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students"
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:28 pm
by jbagelboy
Desert Fox wrote:180orRetake wrote:jbagelboy wrote:this very premise of this discussion simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students.
dude are you seriously that dense? the entire premise of this discussion was actually to explicitly highlight and undermine that misconception. lmao. WOW.
Hey retard, this thread is filled with stupid T14= Any school every in the T10 rationalization, which "simply reinforces the fallacious notion that us news and world report has something of substance to offer to the legal community and to prospective law students"
yup.
Re: An Inquiry Into the Fragility of the t14 Concept
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:38 pm
by abl
Tiago Splitter wrote:abl wrote:Tiago Splitter wrote:abl wrote: Expect this T14 change, if it comes, to be a trailing indicator: folks will pretty definitely understand that UT or wherever is deserving of a place among the elite national schools before it becomes recognized via the rankings. But don't hold your breath: each year it doesn't happen more firmly establishes the T14 and makes it marginally less likely to change. Finally, at the point some change happens (and I'd be shocked if it never happens--but I'd similarly be shocked if it happens in the decade), I'd expect it to change to T15.
A couple years back Texas was tied with Georgetown at 14 in the US News Rankings.
Sure. So what?
?
People didn't recognize UT as a T14 but it still got there.
Did you not read my post? T14 /= schools ranked in the top 14 of US News at some point in their history.