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Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:20 pm
by remainn2
I've got a 3.0 LSAC GPA (institutional GPA is lower) and 173 LSAT. I'm blanketing the t-14, Vanderbilt and WUSTL this fall. I know I'm going to get into one of those schools, and that it will leave me in extreme debt.
I'm about to graduate with serious undergrad debt (~50k) and no sense of direction. I'm not someone who could land a job that could pay my bills right out of college. Very little internship/job experience, low GPA, socially awkward and at a low ranked private school.
Right now I'm looking at two ideas: stay where I am, apply to law school and graduate. Alternatively, I was accepted to a public university back home--I could transfer, finish the pre-med track and pray that I get into a DO program.
Really, the only reason I'm considering law school is because I did well on the LSAT and know I'll need more education. I don't really feel excited or attached about pursuing anything--not sure I would find fulfillment out of any job.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:35 pm
by hairbear7
remainn2 wrote:
Really, the only reason I'm considering law school is because I did well on the LSAT and know I'll need more education. I don't really feel excited or attached about pursuing anything--not sure I would find fulfillment out of any job.
This is a bad reason to invest 3 years of your life and thousands and thousands of dollars. Go to law school if you want to be a lawyer; if not, find some other calling.
If I were you, I'd spend some time doing various internships/jobs to explore different career options and see if you like anything. Better to survey the field then jump head first into something just because you did well on a test.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:36 pm
by NoLieAbility
There's literally zero reason to quintuple your debt in order to delay a decision about your future. You can delay that decision for free at home.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:02 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Do you actually want to be a lawyer or a doctor, or do you just have a tiger mom?
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:26 pm
by Hornet2011
First of all I think you need to give yourself an honest assessment, and by that I mean when you say "not able to get a job to pay your bills" what are we really talking about? You seem to be open to just about anything, so my first recommendation would be if you decide to not pursue the DO track is to be very open and aggressive with your job search and once you land something pay down your debts. This may mean living at home if that's a possibility of living in a place with a low cost of living.
I think choosing to pursue a DO is a whole other question. If you want to be a doctor, be a doctor. If your just in it for the money, you can make more money elsewhere (well in all likelihood). I will tell you though that the med school process is very tough (as I am sure you know) and I am not so sure a 3.0 gpa will cut it but somebody else should comment on that.
If you truly feel you cannot make more money elsewhere than law (which I doubt is true) I would see what kind of schoLarship offers you get and then balance the likely job prospects with the debt load.
I do think you need to research more and read up on what it is like to be a lawyer and consider sitting out for a year or two and paying down the debt load. If you do get a great scholarship offer and you do your research and feel more strongly than not that a career in law could work for you then I would say you have to think long and hard about your choices for next year
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:56 pm
by CanadianWolf
Another poster had a 3.05 GPA & a 172 LSAT score and was admitted to WashUStL with 30K per year scholarship which was later increased to a full tuition scholarship with no attempted negotiation on the applicant's behalf.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:16 pm
by remainn2
CanadianWolf wrote:Another poster had a 3.05 GPA & a 172 LSAT score and was admitted to WashUStL with 30K per year scholarship which was later increased to a full tuition scholarship with no attempted negotiation on the applicant's behalf.
That would be amazing--is that a fluke or could I really score a scholarship that high to a decently ranked school?
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:39 pm
by FloridaCoastalorbust
I was the same as you in terms of the existential quandary when graduating, and I ended up working for three years. I'm so glad I did. I strongly, strongly advise against you going to law school. That angst that you feel will not go away just by obtaining a JD. You're questioning, like I was, what the hell you should be doing in the first place. If you got a 173 on the LSAT you could probably ace the GMAT, but that doesn't mean you should go to business school.
I think the best thing for you is to read a lot of literature, and do a lot of research, related to your undergrad major and any academic/intellectual/casual hobbies and interests you have. The next step is to get any professional job related to your major. Getting into $300k of debt is NOT a panacea for you quandary.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:26 pm
by Dcc617
Take some time off school and work for a couple years. I had originally planned to got to law school right out of college, but ended up not. I'm really thankful I took that route, since I got to save some money and grow up a little bit. It's hard to overstate how much your perspective can shift when you're out in the real world for a while.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:54 pm
by rnoodles
remainn2 wrote:CanadianWolf wrote:Another poster had a 3.05 GPA & a 172 LSAT score and was admitted to WashUStL with 30K per year scholarship which was later increased to a full tuition scholarship with no attempted negotiation on the applicant's behalf.
That would be amazing--is that a fluke or could I really score a scholarship that high to a decently ranked school?
I admittedly don't know much about WashU (never applied myself), but it seems like they are throwing a lot of $$$ at a lot of people with little to no negotiations led by the applicant. So no, I wouldn't say it's a fluke.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:34 pm
by PeanutsNJam
It would be very easy for you to get a full ride at wash u. You may get some money at northwestern, especially if you negotiate, so that seems to be your best bet should you decide on going for whatever reason. You might get an admit to a higher T14 but I'd just use that as leverage for more NU money.
But yes try to work for at least a year or two.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:38 am
by Clemenceau
Applying to law school with a 3.0 while you're 60k in the red is a terrifying prospect. There really is no best case scenario. It's all bad.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:34 pm
by FirmBiz
remainn2 wrote:I've got a 3.0 LSAC GPA (institutional GPA is lower) and 173 LSAT. I'm blanketing the t-14, Vanderbilt and WUSTL this fall. I know I'm going to get into one of those schools, and that it will leave me in extreme debt.
I'm about to graduate with serious undergrad debt (~50k) and no sense of direction. I'm not someone who could land a job that could pay my bills right out of college. Very little internship/job experience, low GPA, socially awkward and at a low ranked private school.
Right now I'm looking at two ideas: stay where I am, apply to law school and graduate. Alternatively, I was accepted to a public university back home--I could transfer, finish the pre-med track and pray that I get into a DO program.
Really, the only reason I'm considering law school is because I did well on the LSAT and know I'll need more education. I don't really feel excited or attached about pursuing anything--not sure I would find fulfillment out of any job.
You need to do something with your life and don't seem to have many options because you say that you aren't the type to land a job right out of college, you really aren't sure what career you really want to pursue, so why not go to a slightly lower ranked law school on a full scholarship rather than just looking at the t-14?
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:39 pm
by Clemenceau
FirmBiz wrote:remainn2 wrote:I've got a 3.0 LSAC GPA (institutional GPA is lower) and 173 LSAT. I'm blanketing the t-14, Vanderbilt and WUSTL this fall. I know I'm going to get into one of those schools, and that it will leave me in extreme debt.
I'm about to graduate with serious undergrad debt (~50k) and no sense of direction. I'm not someone who could land a job that could pay my bills right out of college. Very little internship/job experience, low GPA, socially awkward and at a low ranked private school.
Right now I'm looking at two ideas: stay where I am, apply to law school and graduate. Alternatively, I was accepted to a public university back home--I could transfer, finish the pre-med track and pray that I get into a DO program.
Really, the only reason I'm considering law school is because I did well on the LSAT and know I'll need more education. I don't really feel excited or attached about pursuing anything--not sure I would find fulfillment out of any job.
You need to do something with your life and don't seem to have many options because you say that you aren't the type to land a job right out of college, you really aren't sure what career you really want to pursue, so why not go to a slightly lower ranked law school on a full scholarship rather than just looking at the t-14?
Even if he gets a full ride somewhere, he will likely graduate with 75-100k in debt after COL and interest. That kind of debt is pretty harsh if you aren't at a t14.
edit for clarity
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:41 pm
by FirmBiz
Clemenceau wrote:FirmBiz wrote:remainn2 wrote:I've got a 3.0 LSAC GPA (institutional GPA is lower) and 173 LSAT. I'm blanketing the t-14, Vanderbilt and WUSTL this fall. I know I'm going to get into one of those schools, and that it will leave me in extreme debt.
I'm about to graduate with serious undergrad debt (~50k) and no sense of direction. I'm not someone who could land a job that could pay my bills right out of college. Very little internship/job experience, low GPA, socially awkward and at a low ranked private school.
Right now I'm looking at two ideas: stay where I am, apply to law school and graduate. Alternatively, I was accepted to a public university back home--I could transfer, finish the pre-med track and pray that I get into a DO program.
Really, the only reason I'm considering law school is because I did well on the LSAT and know I'll need more education. I don't really feel excited or attached about pursuing anything--not sure I would find fulfillment out of any job.
You need to do something with your life and don't seem to have many options because you say that you aren't the type to land a job right out of college, you really aren't sure what career you really want to pursue, so why not go to a slightly lower ranked law school on a full scholarship rather than just looking at the t-14?
Even if he gets a full ride somewhere, he will likely graduate with 100k in debt after COL and interest. That kind of debt is pretty harsh if you aren't at a t14.
Agreed. His best case scenario would be to get into a school thats at least t60 on a full ride and the ability to live at home of the next 3 years. That way it would get rid of his COL and tuition and he would just have the undergrad debt to worry about.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:00 pm
by TheSpanishMain
FirmBiz wrote:
Agreed. His best case scenario would be to get into a school thats at least t60 on a full ride and the ability to live at home of the next 3 years. That way it would get rid of his COL and tuition and he would just have the undergrad debt to worry about.
I'm not sure "T60" is really a thing.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:01 pm
by FirmBiz
TheSpanishMain wrote:FirmBiz wrote:
Agreed. His best case scenario would be to get into a school thats at least t60 on a full ride and the ability to live at home of the next 3 years. That way it would get rid of his COL and tuition and he would just have the undergrad debt to worry about.
I'm not sure "T60" is really a thing.
t60 t50 t40, its all just semantics
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:08 pm
by TheSpanishMain
FirmBiz wrote:TheSpanishMain wrote:FirmBiz wrote:
Agreed. His best case scenario would be to get into a school thats at least t60 on a full ride and the ability to live at home of the next 3 years. That way it would get rid of his COL and tuition and he would just have the undergrad debt to worry about.
I'm not sure "T60" is really a thing.
t60 t50 t40, its all just semantics
Yeah, agreed.
First, he should figure out if he actually wants to be a lawyer. Since he also mentioned going the DO route, I suspect the answer is no, he just has high expectation parents he's trying to mollify. If he does actually, sincerely want to be a lawyer, then he should go either T14 at a deep discount or best school in the region he wants to practice for free. No disagreement there.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:05 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
Clemenceau wrote:Applying to law school with a 3.0 while you're 60k in the red is a terrifying prospect. There really is no best case scenario. It's all bad.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:23 pm
by Sideshow Raheem
I think some people ITT don't realize how lenient the law school admissions process has become, especially for an applicant with a 170+ LSAT. In no way should OP even be considering a "T60." S/he should at least get NU with some money and CCN at sticker isn't out of the realm of possibility either. All told, OP probably ends up over $300k in the hole with those options but will have a good shot at getting a job that can repay those loans.
Now whether law school is the right choice at all is something OP is going to have to decide for themselves. At the very least getting a few years of work experience would be a good idea and would only help in both the application process and during OCI.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:32 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Sideshow Raheem wrote:I think some people ITT don't realize how lenient the law school admissions process has become, especially for an applicant with a 170+ LSAT. In no way should OP even be considering a "T60." S/he should at least get NU with some money and CCN at sticker isn't out of the realm of possibility either. All told, OP probably ends up over $300k in the hole with those options but will have a good shot at getting a job that can repay those loans.
Now whether law school is the right choice at all is something OP is going to have to decide for themselves. At the very least getting a few years of work experience would be a good idea and would only help in both the application process and during OCI.
Sticker at CCN plus 50k in undergrad loans could end up coming close to 400k. That's an awful, awful scenario, even if you get the booby prize of three years in BigLaw.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:43 pm
by Sideshow Raheem
Yeah, ideally OP cops around a half scholarship from the lower T14 which I think is very possible based on this cycle's results. That'll still amount to a good $200-250k including the undergrad debt but I'm not sure that's a worse outcome than the employment options available to someone with a 3.0 in a presumably non-useful major from a low-ranked school.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:11 pm
by TheSpanishMain
OP, go join the Navy.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:29 pm
by Dcc617
TheSpanishMain wrote:OP, go join the Navy.
I mean, this may not actually be bad advice. You'd be able to get some great work experience, pay down debt, get the GI bill, and maybe see the world. I know being in the military really changed my perspective on a lot of things.
But try to do Air Force. As someone in the army, I've only see the lifestyle of the air force in passing. And it looks glorious. Or Coast Guard. I can't imagine a more chill job than that. Army and Marines are for people too hardheaded to join the AF.
Re: Wise to attend law school?
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:40 pm
by remainn2
TheSpanishMain wrote:OP, go join the Navy.
I've actually tried. I have a chronic health condition that permanently disqualifies me from service.