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Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:20 pm
by kylansb
hello gents thank you for taking time out of your busy day to answer my questions
i'm a terrible test taker, after taking private lsat prep classes like the manhattanlsat i was only able to muster a sad 142 after taking it 3 times. however my gpa is a 3.45 which i think is decent by application standard.
currently i got accepted into New england law. however i just received a email from cuny law telling me i'm eligible for their pipeline program, which requires me to take the lsat for the 4th time, and if i pass with a 151 i'll be move onto their part 2 which is critical writing. after this 10 months program i'll be accepted as 1L for cuny law fall of 2016.
i know they are both tier 4 and no one here really gives two s*** about but unfortunately this is my situation. if i go to new england, despite what people here suggest against, i have full intention of transferring. and yes i'm fully aware of should not be having that mentality when attending 1L.
i guess the question i'm asking ladies and gents. should i take this long shot and try to get into cuny law despite taking 1 year longer, and a fair chance of not getting in. or is Cuny isn't that much better than New England Law and i should just start my 1L already.
i appreciate your time and honest feedback, i really don't have anyone to turn to for this type of situation.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:22 pm
by Hand
Hi there gent or gal. I'd come up with a different career plan if I were you.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:23 pm
by CanadianWolf
CUNY. Easy choice, in my opinion, especially since they are willing to invest in your development prior to formally being admitted. Plus, isn't the cost much lower than New England Law ?
P.S. Actually, CUNY seems to be a much more selective law school as well with annual tuition at about $25,000 per year.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:29 pm
by BasilHallward
Weak flame. At least try and be convincing. If this is not a flame and you are resolute about attending, go to New England. CUNY is a joke, way too expensive, and you will most likely not improve to 151 from a 142. 9 points is like 18 MORE correct questions that law on the grade distribution.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:31 pm
by Mack.Hambleton
Hand wrote:Hi there gent or gal. I'd come up with a different career plan if I were you.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:32 pm
by BasilHallward
Sorry. I confused CUNY with NYLS. The credited response is clear: Don't waste 3 years of your life. Find another "calling". Anything. Unemployment can be liberating
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:33 pm
by BasilHallward
Sorry. I confused CUNY with NYLS. The credited response is clear: Don't waste 3 years of your life. Find another "calling". Anything. Unemployment can be liberating
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:06 pm
by kylansb
thank you all for your response, i greatly appreciate it. yes i'm serious about attending, i have been working as a legal assistant at a immigration/family law firm for the past 3 years(since the beginning of freshman year). unemployment is not a issue, i'm planning on joining my uncle's law firm if i pass the bar.
i spoke to one of the main guy at the cuny pipeline program, he explained 151 is not critical. but more as a guideline, he explained previous candidate have scored lower and was still able to move onto part 2.
"Any student who scores above a 152 on this administration of the test and/or demonstrates an ability to succeed in law school will be invited to participate in Part II of the Pipeline to Justice Program."
my question still stands, would it be better for me to take a chance at trying to get into cuny law or just go straight to New England Law?
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:13 pm
by Hand
if you are in fact 100% guaranteed to have a job upon graduation, go to whichever costs the least
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:20 pm
by kylansb
yes i'm fortunate enough to have my family for support once i leave school. cuny will cost me the least since i'm from ny and i attended it's undergrad. however i will be spending 10 months just to get to get into cuny vs i start 1L this this september. i will not lie, i will try to transfer a higher tier, however i feel thats what everyone will be trying to do at New England Law. vs Cuny where most people are more willing to stay there due to 12k a year.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:26 pm
by CanadianWolf
CUNY is only $12,000 per year tuition ?
Forget about New England Law School. Out of curiosity, what is the yearly tuition ?
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:32 pm
by kylansb
terribly sorry i meant 12k a semester.
new england law is 20-23k a semester not including finding my own place which could cost around 600-800 a month.
however money is not too big of a deciding factor in my situation. i want to see which choice would give me a better outcome in the long run. another reason why i want to stay in ny is because the internship offered at cuny which will be ny based vs new england law which will be boston based.
at this point i'm merely going by reputation, i know they are both rather poor at this point but it really comes down to is cuny law worth the hassle of pushing 1L back a year and try my luck get into cuny law, vs new england law isn't that much worse and just start 1L already
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:51 pm
by jingosaur
Regarding your transfer hopes, do you know that in all of your 1L classes except for legal writing, your grade will be 100% based on how you perform on a final exam against an entire school of kids who are also trying to transfer?
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:55 pm
by kylansb
jingosaur wrote:Regarding your transfer hopes, do you know that in all of your 1L classes except for legal writing, your grade will be 100% based on how you perform on a final exam against an entire school of kids who are also trying to transfer?
yes i realize that, hence why i'm reluctant to go to new england law, there really isn't any incentive to go there besides hope of transferring. but cuny law on the other hand, the cheap tuition is an incentive which i believe is enticing enough to keep most 1L from transferring.
looking at stats Cuny Law has far fewer transfer students in the past compared to New England Law
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:13 pm
by Johann
Hand wrote:if you are in fact 100% guaranteed to have a job upon graduation, go to whichever costs the least
In the alternative, if you are 100% guaranteed to not have after, go wherever because debt wont matter because PAYE.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:27 pm
by Lawdood
kylansb wrote:i'm a terrible test taker
Are you forgetting the bar?
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:41 pm
by ManoftheHour
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Hand wrote:Hi there gent or gal. I'd come up with a different career plan if I were you.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:45 pm
by hartfordhockaloogies
I don't think you should attend law school because you're employment prospects from a TTTT are <50% for shitlaw. However, if you feel you must go, for whatever reason, then go to the cheapest school. Please keep in mind opportunity cost, even if you attend the cheapest school.
I think TTTT is TCR only if a family member is an attorney and has promised you a job.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:22 pm
by kylansb
hartfordhockaloogies wrote:I don't think you should attend law school because you're employment prospects from a TTTT are <50% for shitlaw. However, if you feel you must go, for whatever reason, then go to the cheapest school. Please keep in mind opportunity cost, even if you attend the cheapest school.
I think TTTT is TCR only if a family member is an attorney and has promised you a job.
i'm sorry i just joined the site today, what is TTTT and TCR?
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:28 pm
by AReasonableMan
The CUNY offer sounds like a bad deal. You only get to attend if you go through a 4th year (when many law schools have debated cutting it to 2 years), and you only get to go if you hit a 151.
What this seems to be is about accreditation and bar passage rates - the 151 is because the ABA is tough on schools who admit sub-150 scores, and the writing program sounds like it's to predict if you'll probably pass the bar.
This benefits them but not you. The flaw here is that if you got a 151 you'd get in without having to pay them any additional money for a "part one" and "part two" program. Further, with a 151 and 3.47 you'd have more options - not great options but more options. The best outcome here is you pay money and forfeit your freedom of choice as a consumer. Of course, I may have misunderstood.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:31 pm
by kylansb
AReasonableMan wrote:The CUNY offer sounds like a bad deal. You only get to attend if you go through a 4th year (when many law schools have debated cutting it to 2 years), and you only get to go if you hit a 151.
The flaw here is that if you got a 151 you'd get in without having to pay them any additional money for a "part one" and "part two" program. Further, with a 151 and 3.47 you'd have more options - not great options but more options.
your right. with a 151 i can basically attend cardozo law which is a much better school. and if i do get a good score i'm obligated to go there. one of the clause states i can only submit the lsat score to them and them only.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:36 pm
by CanadianWolf
This line of thought forgets that Cardozo's tuition is about $54,000 per year while CUNY is less than half that at $24,000 per year & only slightly above $15,000 per year for residents.. With a 151 LSAT, OP will be paying sticker. Currently OP is not ready for law school, in the opinion of CUNY & based on a high LSAT score of 142 after 3 sittings & an LSAT prep course. The 10 month writing program may benefit the OP more than law school. OP, what is the cost of the 10 month writing program ? Is it full-time or part-time ?
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:46 pm
by CanadianWolf
OP: I just checked out CUNY's tuition for New York residents--it's only slightly above $15,000 per year. Three years of tuition should amount to less than $50,000
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:55 pm
by kylansb
CanadianWolf wrote:This line of thought forgets that Cardozo's tuition is about $54,000 per year while CUNY is less than half that at $24,000 per year & only slightly above $15,000 per year for residents.. With a 151 LSAT, OP will be paying sticker. Currently OP is not ready for law school, in the opinion of CUNY & based on a high LSAT score of 142 after 3 sittings & an LSAT prep course. The 10 month writing program may benefit the OP more than law school. OP, what is the cost of the 10 month writing program ? Is it full-time or part-time ?
its actually only 800 dollars for the whole program.
i too believe the writing program would probably benefit me.
however i discussed this with my parents, even with the argument of effective cost saving and such, they disagree and ultimately shot it down. their reason is they don't want me to delay anymore time starting 1L. i did graduate from undergrad in 2013 and took the last 2 years studying lsat and working.
ultimately for my parents tuition is not a concern, their goal doesn't include which law school i go to as long as i'm eligible to take the bar.
if it was up to me i would have taken all the advise here and probably went engineering. i actually managed to pass 2 Newtonian calculus physics course in spring and summer semester before New England law sent me my acceptance.
Re: Tier 4 Law: New england Law vs Cuny Law
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:20 pm
by celtslaw
If you are guaranteed a job by your relative, then there's no point in discussing this further. Just go to the cheaper option as others have said. Waiting almost a year for CUNY seems like a waste of time to me given you seem to have a job waiting for you.
Both schools are absolutely terrible choices if you don't have a family member setting you up after graduating and passing the bar. If you are 100% sure your relative will hire you and that you will be content working at his firm, then go to the more affordable option because reputation is irrelevant here. As someone familiar with Boston, I can tell you that New England is the laughingstock of law schools here. I imagine CUNY has a similar reputation in NY.
Your mention of possibly transferring makes me think you're not completely set after graduation though. If this is the case, then please save yourself the time, money and effort and pursue engineering or anything else that you may excel in.
I hope you figure things out and succeed in whatever field you decide to enter. I don't mean to come off as harsh, but I don't want to sugarcoat things.
Best of luck to you.