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Hi

Can you guys please rate me for T14 admission. My particulars are as follows

Qualification:
LLB final year student (graduation date - mid August 2015)

University:
University of London

Mode of sudy:
Distance

Grades:
First class ( GPA range 3.7 to 4.0, according to various sources. LSAC would declare it as "superior", the highest grade)

LSAT diagnostic average:
170

Age:
39

Employment:
Full time (HR manager in a big corporation)

Academic referees:
None

Extracurricular activities:
Don't manage to fit in a lot of formal stuff in my rather busy life (work, study, family)

Thanks

Can you guys please rate me for T14 admission

6/10. But we haven't seen the swimsuit portion of the competition yet.

Seriously, though: You'll at least get in to the lower t14 with those numbers, and maybe with some scholarship money. The various Law School Predictors out there can do a better job of straight admissions chances than a bunch of internet forum monkeys like us.

I'm curious - why get a law degree in Britain and then in the U.S.? Not sure about legal hiring in the U.K. but if you could land a big firm gig there, couldn't you get experience as an attorney and then simply lateral into the U.S. market?

This would be doubly helpful if you looked at firms that had strong British and U.S. presences, because then you could do a transfer from within the firm (Magic Circle firms, Hogan Lovells, etc.).

Thanks for the quick assessment

Magic circle folks tend to be prestige whores
My distance degree is likely to be a handicap there
A T14 JD should be able to "cure" my distance degree stigma
And should land me directly into US big law, if all goes well

An (actual) 170+ and a Superior, you should have no difficulty getting a full ride in the T14.

twenty wrote:An (actual) 170+ and a Superior, you should have no difficulty getting a full ride in the T14.

Thanks

In your opinion

How seriously, if at all, my admission prospects can be harmed by my age, lack of academic references, and study mode of my undergraduate degree?

twenty wrote:An (actual) 170+ and a Superior, you should have no difficulty getting a full ride in the T14.

hmmmm I'd rank that as false

Age, not at all. Lack of academic references? Well, given that you've just completed undergrad, that's probably not a good thing. Study mode? Tough to say. My guess is that law schools will cut you a break because it's pretty obvious that you had a good reason and weren't just picking an easy option.

See if you can get one of your online professors to write you a nice LOR. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's better than not having one at all.

How much will any of this matter? Not even a fifth as much as your LSAT/Superior combo will.

Hand wrote:hmmmm I'd rank that as false

I'd rank you as willfully dense.

twenty wrote:Age, not at all. Lack of academic references? Well, given that you've just completed undergrad, that's probably not a good thing. Study mode? Tough to say. My guess is that law schools will cut you a break because it's pretty obvious that you had a good reason and weren't just picking an easy option.

See if you can get one of your online professors to write you a nice LOR. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's better than not having one at all.

How much will any of this matter? Not even a fifth as much as your LSAT/Superior combo will.

LOR from a university professor is not a possibility, given the nature of my programme

It's not really an online programme

No remote supervision or guidance
No assignments
You just get text materials and access to online databases
And sit exams at the end of the year

twenty wrote:

Hand wrote:hmmmm I'd rank that as false

I'd rank you as willfully dense.

Pretending to have a GPA in a certain range doesn't make you actually have a GPA in that range, dumbass. FWIW, with a >>170/superior and without any of the problems OP has with his application, I didn't get a full ride anywhere in the T14 this year (although I did get up to 80-85% of tuition at a few schools).

Anyway - age should not be a genuine obstacle, but it's hard to say whether schools will have a problem with your distance degree. You can presumably explain why you didn't take the traditional route, and that should help. You should definitely try to obtain at least one academic letter of reference. If that's really not possible... well, I guess two letters from professional references will have to do. But your LSAT is what'll have to do most of the heavy lifting either way, so don't apply until you get at least a 170, if not higher.

Hand wrote:

twenty wrote:

Hand wrote:hmmmm I'd rank that as false

I'd rank you as willfully dense.

Pretending to have a GPA in a certain range doesn't make you actually have a GPA in that range, dumbass. FWIW, with a >>170/superior and without any of the problems OP has with his application, I didn't get a full ride anywhere in the T14 this year (although I did get up to 80-85% of tuition at a few schools).

Anyway - age should not be a genuine obstacle, but it's hard to say whether schools will have a problem with your distance degree. You can presumably explain why you didn't take the traditional route, and that should help. You should definitely try to obtain at least one academic letter of reference. If that's really not possible... well, I guess two letters from professional references will have to do. But your LSAT is what'll have to do most of the heavy lifting either way, so don't apply until you get at least a 170, if not higher.

Thanks

If you don't mind my asking, did you apply for admissions with a non-US qualification as well? I am asking this because your classification "superior" is only given by LSAC to foreign degrees.

atarar wrote:If you don't mind my asking, did you apply for admissions with a non-US qualification as well? I am asking this because your classification "superior" is only given by LSAC to foreign degrees.

Yup, I have a foreign undergraduate degree. You can find some more data on how international applicants fared this year in the spreadsheet here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=233438

Post removed.

Hand wrote:

atarar wrote:If you don't mind my asking, did you apply for admissions with a non-US qualification as well? I am asking this because your classification "superior" is only given by LSAC to foreign degrees.

Yup, I have a foreign undergraduate degree. You can find some more data on how international applicants fared this year in the spreadsheet here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=233438

Thanks for the useful link
Much appreciate it

My best guess is that your LSAT will be the most overwhelming factor regarding whether or not you're admitted to any particular T-14 & whether or not scholarship money is awarded. Other factors favoring admission are your significant work experience, age & international status as law schools like to assemble a diverse class. Your GPA is, in my opinion, a non-factor because it can neither help nor hurt a law school's USNews ranking.

Additionally, the LSAT score will most likely be the single factor that indicates your ability to handle a competitive academic workload.

CanadianWolf wrote:My best guess is that your LSAT will be the most overwhelming factor regarding whether or not you're admitted to any particular T-14 & whether or not scholarship money is awarded. Other factors favoring admission are your significant work experience, age & international status as law schools like to assemble a diverse class. Your GPA is, in my opinion, a non-factor because it can neither help nor hurt a law school's USNews ranking.

Thanks
Yeah, LSAT seems to be the decider in my case
Got to push myself to score better

My best guess is that you'll need a 169 LSAT score to be somewhat assured of T-14 admission & 170 or higher for significant scholarship money from the lower T-14 law schools.

Northwestern & Cornell should be your safest bets, in my opinion. And, as an aside, both Cornell & Northwestern are very prestigious law schools. Northwestern appreciates work experience more than any other T-14 law school & Cornell is a feeder law school to major new york city law firms (which are the highest paying in the US).

CanadianWolf wrote:My best guess is that you'll need a 169 LSAT score to be somewhat assured of T-14 admission & 170 or higher for significant scholarship money from the lower T-14 law schools.

Northwestern & Cornell should be your safest bets, in my opinion. And, as an aside, both Cornell & Northwestern are very prestigious law schools. Northwestern appreciates work experience more than any other T-14 law school & Cornell is a feeder law school to major New York City law firms (which are the highest paying in the US).

Thanks for the guesswork
Tuition money is not an issue
I just want to get into the best possible program

Get a 170+ and you'll definitely have a handful of T14 admissions.
Here's the most recent class profile data for you:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv? ... true&gid=9

Age shouldn't hold you back so long as you are able to succinctly explain the "Why law (now)?" question.
Good luck.

Rigo wrote:Get a 170+ and you'll definitely have a handful of T14 admissions.
Here's the most recent class profile data for you:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv? ... true&gid=9

Age shouldn't hold you back so long as you are able to succinctly explain the "Why law (now)?" question.
Good luck.

Thanks Rigo
Both for the comment and the link

So I'm going to ask a different question - why law? Is there something you don't care for at your current job? Starting an entirely new career at 42-ish is very challenging. You will be going from management to taking direction from people almost half your age. It's a hard adjustment.

Are you reasonably happy with your current job and salary? If so, I would take a long, hard look at whether you want to commit yourself to law school and Biglaw and the reasoning behind the decision.

I'm 35 years old with a family, and I just graduated a couple years ago. I got what is, by all measurements, a "unicorn" job and I very much enjoy it, but it's difficult at times. I don't get to see my kid as often as I would like, and frankly, at 35, it isn't as easy as it once was to keep up with the pace that will sometimes (or oftentimes) be required in most firms. It was a hell of a lot easier at 24 or 28 to keep up with that kind of pace. That's going to sound like old man talk to people under 30, but no matter what kind of shape you stay in, your body just slows down in your 30's. If you started in Biglaw at 27 and are well on your way to partnership or a cushy in-house gig by 35, then it works out well. But starting as a first year at 42 would be much tougher.

All of which is a long way of saying be damn sure this is what you want, and then sit and think about that and be double-damn sure. It seems as if your numbers will get you into a very good school, but the best case scenario coming out of that school may not ultimately be that great for your situation. Just because law school is an option doesn't mean you have to go. Unless you're working 65 hours a week for $15.00 an hour, I'd very carefully examine why you want to go to law school.

If you get a 170 you will get into some t14 with $$. The "why law?" Question is a good one. The schools won't ask you but employers will. Some big law firms will be cautious about hiring you (I say this as someone in his 30s) because they will be concerned you either won't be able to do the hours or won't fit in. So why this career change?

I'm confident if you score a 170 you should be able to get a full ride. You may get in with much less albeit with no money. I'd suggest you don't give up until you get a 170. I know time is a concern but don't leave money on the table.

I agree with the TLS consensus - age isn't really a big deal for admissions, but > 40 might be tricky for job hunting purposes depending on the market or employer. Without a reportable gpa the LSAT will dictate a huge portion of the outcome here. I wouldn't worry about recommendations outside of HYS - I didn't use any academic letters, and I performed to my numbers in the T14.

A