Top Law Schools

I live in a large city, and I have never met anyone that has endorsed going to law school. On the contrary, everywhere I go – on the train, at the library, at the coffee shop, on college campuses, at social functions - people actively tells me about regretting law school. You want examples?

A 2014 TTT grad with a full scholarship that is currently unemployed and looking for any legal job.

A 2014 lower T13 grad with a half scholarship, finished magna cum laude, and enviably employed, says to me: “I wouldn’t do it again.”

A 2013 TTT grad with no job, decides to go back to school for another advanced degree, realizes that the advanced degree will not help him get a job as a lawyer, drops out of the advanced degree program, and STILL does not have a job. He is literally drowning and suffocating in $150,000 worth of student debt.

Also, I personally know more than a handful of TTT grads that currently works in fields as diverse as waitressing and retail stocking. I wonder how long it will take to pay $100,000+ worth of student loans when you’re making $9 an hour.

You want alternatives to a legal career? Go into business for yourself. Fine, most people are not cut out to be entrepreneurs, but I bet if you’re smart and diligent enough to get into a T14 with money, your chances of being a “mildly” successful entrepreneur is just as good as finishing median. You probably won’t see six figures, but you WILL make a living and most importantly, you’ll own your destiny and have fun doing it. There are so many internet startups out there today that specializes in loaning to college grads at reasonable interest rates - never in history has capital been so easy to access.

We live in a country with over 1.2 million lawyers. We don’t need to add on to that surplus. Thus, do yourself, and the country, a favor by becoming an entrepreneur and creating real value for our society.

I agree people shouldn't go to law school but this sounds like you're just pushing another varietal of debt slavery. Go get an actual full time job after college with an actual employer who can pay you a salary and prosper.

Because entrepreneurs have such a staggeringly low rate of failure AMIRITE.

just come up with some photobook with a little groove in it, go on shark tank, and make 14 million.

nbd

xiao_long wrote:I live in a large city, and I have never met anyone that has endorsed going to law school. On the contrary, everywhere I go – on the train, at the library, at the coffee shop, on college campuses, at social functions - people actively tells me about regretting law school. You want examples?

A 2014 TTT grad with a full scholarship that is currently unemployed and looking for any legal job.

A 2014 lower T13 grad with a half scholarship, finished magna cum laude, and enviably employed, says to me: “I wouldn’t do it again.”

A 2013 TTT grad with no job, decides to go back to school for another advanced degree, realizes that the advanced degree will not help him get a job as a lawyer, drops out of the advanced degree program, and STILL does not have a job. He is literally drowning and suffocating in $150,000 worth of student debt.

Also, I personally know more than a handful of TTT grads that currently works in fields as diverse as waitressing and retail stocking. I wonder how long it will take to pay $100,000+ worth of student loans when you’re making $9 an hour.

You want alternatives to a legal career? Go into business for yourself. Fine, most people are not cut out to be entrepreneurs, but I bet if you’re smart and diligent enough to get into a T14 with money, your chances of being a “mildly” successful entrepreneur is just as good as finishing median. You probably won’t see six figures, but you WILL make a living and most importantly, you’ll own your destiny and have fun doing it. There are so many internet startups out there today that specializes in loaning to college grads at reasonable interest rates - never in history has capital been so easy to access.

We live in a country with over 1.2 million lawyers. We don’t need to add on to that surplus. Thus, do yourself, and the country, a favor by becoming an entrepreneur and creating real value for our society.

+1

Entrepreneurship is far more exciting and rewarding than law school. Prior to law school, I had never started a business or even worked a commission job. Oh, to be young again . . .

Insufferable Silicon Valley bro detected

xiao_long wrote: You want alternatives to a legal career? Go into business for yourself. Fine, most people are not cut out to be entrepreneurs, but I bet if you’re smart and diligent enough to get into a T14 with money, your chances of being a “mildly” successful entrepreneur is just as good as finishing median. You probably won’t see six figures, but you WILL make a living and most importantly, you’ll own your destiny and have fun doing it. There are so many internet startups out there today that specializes in loaning to college grads at reasonable interest rates - never in history has capital been so easy to access.

This is so, so false. I agree with your first point, most young law grads that I meet seem to regret having chosen law school, but let not act like even most T14 students would be successful entrepreneurs. Most of them would struggle much worse if they had gone all in on the entrepreneur route after law school. Successful entrepreneurs have a skillset that is very unique and distinct, I don't know how you could draw the conclusion that most students at T14 with money possess that skillset. All you need to get into a T14 with money a high LSAT score and high GPA, I don't think either of these would correlate with showing the traits that most successful entrepreneurs have. The only thing that high LSAT + high GPA is indicative of is that you're booksmart, you're good at school, and taking tests.

To be an entrepreneur takes a lot of self-motivation, creativity, self-reliance, and perseverance. If anything, I would wager that most T14 law students are actually lacking a lot of the traits I outlined above. Taking the entrepreneur route is tough, not many people can come out of it successfully, and you'll probably come out behind than if you'd just gotten a job right out of college.

Post removed.

What is a mildly successful entrepreneur? Someone running a shitty chinese restaurant?

skip law school and ________

fats provolone wrote:skip law school and ________

Buy $300,000 worth of PowerBall tickets.

Better yet, just do McKinsey, bro. It's not that hard. /s

Trying to be the next Steve Jobs or whatever might be a useful exercise for rich kids, but for people with real world responsibilities like student debt, throwing your time and money into something that is almost guaranteed to fail is stupid. If you don't want to go to law school, hustle for an office job somewhere and be a cog in the corporate machine instead of pretending you're a special snowflake who can bypass established social and economic rules and instantly rise to the top.

hustle for an office job somewhere and be a cog in the corporate machine

this is the correct answer

jbagelboy wrote:I agree people shouldn't go to law school but this sounds like you're just pushing another varietal of debt slavery. Go get an actual full time job after college with an actual employer who can pay you a salary and prosper.

It isn't debt slavery since you can technically discharge it via bankruptcy. You can't do that with student loans.

Look, we all know entrepreneurship is a risky proposition, and that most people would be better off working for someone else. But at the same time, I think we can all agree that for most students, law school is every bit as risky as entrepreneurship.

What I'm trying to drive home is that, instead of taking a gamble with law school, more people should consider taking a gamble with starting a small business. You will probably fail, but you will also gain a valuable experience and maybe even learn something about yourself that you've never learnt before. I'm not trying to be a Silicon Valley lunatic here, but there's something inherently worthwhile in the attempt to defy odds and trying to create something valuable in the process.

If you fail law school, what is there to be gained? You pay the school hundreds of thousands of dollars to study books like a maniac, and in the end you get rewarded with a fancy diploma to hang on your wall?

LOL @ thinking that making some pointless phone app is "creating value," improving society, and inherently noble.

OP what's the name of your startup? How's it working out for you?

Lol guys don't worry there's always BANKRUPTCY if your billion dollar app venture doesn't work out.

ymmv wrote:Lol guys don't worry there's always BANKRUPTCY if your billion dollar app venture doesn't work out.

better than law school :/

fats provolone wrote:

ymmv wrote:Lol guys don't worry there's always BANKRUPTCY if your billion dollar app venture doesn't work out.

better than law school :/

Why are we even entertaining this comparison though. It's like a dumbass "would you rather" cut off both your hands or both your feet.

xiao_long wrote:Look, we all know entrepreneurship is a risky proposition, and that most people would be better off working for someone else. But at the same time, I think we can all agree that for most students, law school is every bit as risky as entrepreneurship.

What are you talking about? If you get your admissions inputs to a certain level, law school isn't a terribly risky proposition. Barely anyone is going to become exceedingly rich as an attorney, but if you make sound decisions throughout your LS process, you're likely going to come out of it with a reasonable debt load and a job that puts you in a pretty high income bracket -- there isn't any big trick to it.

I agree with you that going to brooklyn law at sticker is every bit as risky as starting a chinese restaurant.

thatsnotmyname wrote:

xiao_long wrote: You want alternatives to a legal career? Go into business for yourself. Fine, most people are not cut out to be entrepreneurs, but I bet if you’re smart and diligent enough to get into a T14 with money, your chances of being a “mildly” successful entrepreneur is just as good as finishing median. You probably won’t see six figures, but you WILL make a living and most importantly, you’ll own your destiny and have fun doing it. There are so many internet startups out there today that specializes in loaning to college grads at reasonable interest rates - never in history has capital been so easy to access.

This is so, so false. I agree with your first point, most young law grads that I meet seem to regret having chosen law school, but let not act like even most T14 students would be successful entrepreneurs. Most of them would struggle much worse if they had gone all in on the entrepreneur route after law school. Successful entrepreneurs have a skillset that is very unique and distinct, I don't know how you could draw the conclusion that most students at T14 with money possess that skillset. All you need to get into a T14 with money a high LSAT score and high GPA, I don't think either of these would correlate with showing the traits that most successful entrepreneurs have. The only thing that high LSAT + high GPA is indicative of is that you're booksmart, you're good at school, and taking tests.

To be an entrepreneur takes a lot of self-motivation, creativity, self-reliance, and perseverance. If anything, I would wager that most T14 law students are actually lacking a lot of the traits I outlined above. Taking the entrepreneur route is tough, not many people can come out of it successfully, and you'll probably come out behind than if you'd just gotten a job right out of college.

Some of the skills that are necessary to being a successful entrepreneur are best learned through experience, not academia. It's true that many T14 students lack these traits. Could that be due the fact that they have no experience starting or running a business? I'm not suggesting that young folks should go "all in on the entrepreneur route." Instead, young people should look for ways to start small businesses, micro-businesses even, long before they consider a professional graduate program.

The number one reason people cite for not starting a business is that they don't know what kind of business to start. But the best way to learn about business is to be in business. Your network of potential clients will give you ideas on how to improve the business or which other business avenues might be worth pursuing. When I started my business, I expected it to grow in a particular direction, but it didn't. I paid attention to the comments and questions of my potential clients, and I moved in a direction that is more profitable. But I never would have known there was a market for certain niche services if I hadn't failed at my original goal.

I worked in biglaw for one year and hated it. Luckily, I have little LS debt, so I could walk away unscathed. That chap you all make fun of who runs a profitable Chinese restaurant is in better financial shape than a significant portion of law school grads.

I have nothing of value to add, but I did want to take the time to say... This is soooooo dumb.

Anyone can be an entrepreneur! Everything you think of is valuable!

Can LST put up numbers for entrepreneur outcomes? I want to make a rational decision here.

This is stealth boomer-ing.

Starting your own business is HARD. Growing the business is REALLY FUCKING HARD. I was lucky to be (briefly) part of a great business that grew rapidly before it was sold. The founders worked tirelessly, for no pay. Think biglaw hours, but no pay, and no benefits. I think in the 3 years they did it, they paid themselves 20K... total. And this wasn't their first company. They had a string of all failed companies along the way and were 40 years old living in a shitty basement suite. Sure, they did reasonably well at the sale (maybe 3M each before taxes), but they were the lucky ones who had an exit. 99% of companies won't have an exit. 3M after 20 years of trying is kind of shit.

Here's the thing I realized about starting your own company. It's impossible to leave it at the office. It becomes your world, because it has to become your world to succeed. You can't build a successful company doing 9-5. Or 9-9. It's 24 hours, all the time. It's absolutely exhausting. Very few people have the ability to do that.

Also, lol@the first post about how access to capital is super easy. Yeah, getting some billionaire to fund your app is totally NBD. 100M valuations are easy to bluff your way into.

What a stupid thread.

The vast majority of people cannot build companies from scratch. I'm definitely in the latter group.