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Hello!

I applied to law schools

-UF
-BU
-Hastings
-Northeastern
-Davis

to which I was accepted into Northeastern and wait listed at UF. I ultimately decided to attend graduate school at BU for economics which is a pretty prestigious program in the country for economics. Ultimately, I still find myself interested in studying law.

My undergraduate GPA is a 3.6 overall/3.7 for my major and my abysmal LSAT score was a 152. I am planning on retaking my LSAT to increase my score. When I took my LSAT it was due to a push by family who felt it was my calling but I was too focused on getting into graduate school so I studied minimally(two weeks before hand) during my junior year of college.

My questions are,

[*] Will having a low GPA(3.0) in graduate school hurt my chances? As in will my low GPA in graduate school under-value my GPA in my undergraduate? The rigor of my program leads to most of us having around that mark with higher GPA's more aligned with students focused and capable of completing a Ph.D.

[*] If the GPA for my graduate school doesn't matter, will having a Master's increase my odds or not much to experience a difference?

[*] Will being a current Master's student at BU increase my overall chances of getting into BU for law?

[*] With my GPA, at what LSAT score should I ultimately strive for to get into BU? I understand the best I can do, but I'm asking for a more specific estimation.

Thanks!

corgi_economist wrote:Hello!
[*] Will having a low GPA(3.0) in graduate school hurt my chances? As in will my low GPA in graduate school under-value my GPA in my undergraduate? The rigor of my program leads to most of us having around that mark with higher GPA's more aligned with students focused and capable of completing a Ph.D.

[*] If the GPA for my graduate school doesn't matter, will having a Master's increase my odds or not much to experience a difference?

[*] Will being a current Master's student at BU increase my overall chances of getting into BU for law?

[*] With my GPA, at what LSAT score should I ultimately strive for to get into BU? I understand the best I can do, but I'm asking for a more specific estimation.

Thanks!

Probably not. Your UGPA is what matters.
It is an okay soft but it's not really going to affect your cycle.
Probably not.
Don't shoot for an LSAT good enough to get into BU. A 3.6 (assuming that is your LSAC GPA) is god for many T14 with money. Shoot for a 180 instead.

malleus discentium wrote:

corgi_economist wrote:Hello!
[*] Will having a low GPA(3.0) in graduate school hurt my chances? As in will my low GPA in graduate school under-value my GPA in my undergraduate? The rigor of my program leads to most of us having around that mark with higher GPA's more aligned with students focused and capable of completing a Ph.D.

[*] If the GPA for my graduate school doesn't matter, will having a Master's increase my odds or not much to experience a difference?

[*] Will being a current Master's student at BU increase my overall chances of getting into BU for law?

[*] With my GPA, at what LSAT score should I ultimately strive for to get into BU? I understand the best I can do, but I'm asking for a more specific estimation.

Thanks!

Probably not. Your UGPA is what matters.
It is an okay soft but it's not really going to affect your cycle.
Probably not.
Don't shoot for an LSAT good enough to get into BU. A 3.6 (assuming that is your LSAC GPA) is god for many T14 with money. Shoot for a 180 instead.

I agree with this. Don't ask what LSAT you should strive for to get into BU- your goal should always be 180. There are lots of good resources on this site. With a 3.6, you'll want to get at least a 165/166 to get a good scholarship from BU. Depending on your goals though, a T14 may be better. Best of luck!

So you are also in agreement that currently going to BU will not increase my odds? I appreciate all the feedback so quickly, guys! In hindsight very much wished I took my families advice and took my LSAT more seriously.

I actually have a more abstract question as well. I will complete my program in the spring, should I just out of pure luck apply to BU again this November 2014 with my current LSAT score? I will be retaking my LSAT after my program is completed in June then reapplying that following November of 2015, but will have applied unsuccessfully now two times hurt my chances after retaking my LSAT or is it worth the shot to go ahead and submit an application again?

corgi_economist wrote:So you are also in agreement that currently going to BU will not increase my odds? I appreciate all the feedback so quickly, guys! In hindsight very much wished I took my families advice and took my LSAT more seriously.

I actually have a more abstract question as well. I will complete my program in the spring, should I just out of pure luck apply to BU again this November 2014 with my current LSAT score? I will be retaking my LSAT after my program is completed in June then reapplying that following November of 2015, but will have applied unsuccessfully now two times hurt my chances after retaking my LSAT or is it worth the shot to go ahead and submit an application again?

I would not apply this cycle at all unless you retake in December. 152 is very low for BU and, even if you managed to get in, you would not get any scholarships. But retaking in December would still be an option if you can dedicate the next month to studying and think you can get your score up high.

Unfortunately that's not an option. I am committing all my efforts to finals and a comprehensive examination I have. I was seeing mostly if there is any harm for when I do retake my LSAT in june and apply then by just sending through an application with my current credentials(excluding the obvious costs associated with applying)

In a very similar situation to yourself 3.6-3.7 UGPA, with an MA currently in economics. Took the LSAT and am content with my score, but trying to currently navigate how to best address my economics MA in statements about interest and career interests. I'm interested in gov't work/trade law so have been aiming to mentioning that. Curious to know if you've planned on answering or addressing why law school from an economics MA.

Side note: I've heard great things about BU's econ MA program. How much econometric work do you do?

If BU is a prestigious program for economics, you should probably get a job in economics, especially if you have debt. You will probably make more and you don't need to incur any more debt.

I know "studying law" sounds interesting, but it really is not. Even in law school they do not teach you what practicing law actually entails. Law school is spent reading endless amounts of case law and writing briefs that you will likely not do a lot of as an attorney. Also, if you just want to study law, there is a cheaper and easier way to do that: just go buy all the old textbooks and read them in your spare time.

Going to BU will not give you a boost. It comes down to LSAT & UGPA. Good luck.

The program is very analysis based. Lots and lots of econometrics, statistics, and use of calculus. Very much steers away from most theory and dives right into application. Very rigorous but you come out very confident with your knowledge.

Ken, I appreciate your life advice, but I'm not concerned too much about debt or prospective salary. Of course it's a major component of what work I wish to land in, but growing up in a very poor family gives me the luxury with mostly finding satisfaction in what I do not the leisure time or discretionary funds it affords me. Economics is a very passionate subject to me, but in the sense of better understanding people's behaviors, attitudes toward policy, and knowing effectively the workings of our labor markets. Economics as a career wouldn't be as fulfilling to me as a career in advocacy or as a regulator. I don't purely have a fantasy of what studying law would be or as a trial attorney

corgi_economist wrote:The program is very analysis based. Lots and lots of econometrics, statistics, and use of calculus. Very much steers away from most theory and dives right into application. Very rigorous but you come out very confident with your knowledge.

Ken, I appreciate your life advice, but I'm not concerned too much about debt or prospective salary. Of course it's a major component of what work I wish to land in, but growing up in a very poor family gives me the luxury with mostly finding satisfaction in what I do not the leisure time or discretionary funds it affords me. Economics is a very passionate subject to me, but in the sense of better understanding people's behaviors, attitudes toward policy, and knowing effectively the workings of our labor markets. Economics as a career wouldn't be as fulfilling to me as a career in advocacy or as a regulator. I don't purely have a fantasy of what studying law would be or as a trial attorney

This is so dumb. Yeah you might not care about being wealthy and want to enjoy what you do, but when you can't make the interest payments on your loans you will think differently. It will impede you from buying a home, or a car. Getting married or having kids. You just seem like you are afraid to enter the real world, tbh.

This is so dumb. Yeah you might not care about being wealthy and want to enjoy what you do, but when you can't make the interest payments on your loans you will think differently. It will impede you from buying a home, or a car. Getting married or having kids. You just seem like you are afraid to enter the real world, tbh.

Well aren't you pretty fucking rude? You don't know what my current debt levels, any financial plan of action I'm looking to take, or what trade off of perspective income I'm looking at. Funding law school through student loans on an IBR plan schedules payment at 15% of discretionary incomes, or paying the fastest way possible would have me paying an estimated 1200 a month or reduce my yearly take home by a little under 15k a year for 10 years, or I could choose to get into public service to which I would do 10 year consistent minimum payments until the amount is forgiven.

What I was saying is that I don't find disincentive through potential debt of attending law school because I wouldn't attend law school to simply raise my standard of living, but because I have a legitimate interest in law even if my take home yields 40-50k a year after loan repayment for entry level work

What was the point in posting your opinion to me? I came on this board to seek advice and help, but what I got was your pretentious insult which is severely un-needed. I was homeless at 15, worked 32 hours a week all four years of my undergraduate, and now I'm about to complete an extremely rigorous program. So keep the way you view my outlook on life to yourself

When I took my LSAT it was due to a push by family who felt it was my calling but I was too focused on getting into graduate school so I studied minimally(two weeks before hand) during my junior year of college

This is very dangerous. Your family clearly has no idea how bad it is out there for attorneys. Please make sure you make this choice based on your decision, using actual facts & solid reasoning. There's no callings in life that magically work out.

corgi_economist wrote:

This is so dumb. Yeah you might not care about being wealthy and want to enjoy what you do, but when you can't make the interest payments on your loans you will think differently. It will impede you from buying a home, or a car. Getting married or having kids. You just seem like you are afraid to enter the real world, tbh.

Well aren't you pretty fucking rude? You don't know what my current debt levels, any financial plan of action I'm looking to take, or what trade off of perspective income I'm looking at. Funding law school through student loans on an IBR plan schedules payment at 15% of discretionary incomes, or paying the fastest way possible would have me paying an estimated 1200 a month or reduce my yearly take home by a little under 15k a year for 10 years, or I could choose to get into public service to which I would do 10 year consistent minimum payments until the amount is forgiven.

What I was saying is that I don't find disincentive through potential debt of attending law school because I wouldn't attend law school to simply raise my standard of living, but because I have a legitimate interest in law even if my take home yields 40-50k a year after loan repayment for entry level work

What was the point in posting your opinion to me? I came on this board to seek advice and help, but what I got was your pretentious insult which is severely un-needed. I was homeless at 15, worked 32 hours a week all four years of my undergraduate, and now I'm about to complete an extremely rigorous program. So keep the way you view my outlook on life to yourself

This board is full of people who are in or have completed law school, from a wide variety of backgrounds, who will crush your innocent optimism.

You wont' have a choice of anything from the schools you listed. You'll be lucky to find any job at all doing anything. Reality isn't rosy here kid.

corgi_economist wrote:

This is so dumb. Yeah you might not care about being wealthy and want to enjoy what you do, but when you can't make the interest payments on your loans you will think differently. It will impede you from buying a home, or a car. Getting married or having kids. You just seem like you are afraid to enter the real world, tbh.

Well aren't you pretty fucking rude? You don't know what my current debt levels, any financial plan of action I'm looking to take, or what trade off of perspective income I'm looking at. Funding law school through student loans on an IBR plan schedules payment at 15% of discretionary incomes, or paying the fastest way possible would have me paying an estimated 1200 a month or reduce my yearly take home by a little under 15k a year for 10 years, or I could choose to get into public service to which I would do 10 year consistent minimum payments until the amount is forgiven.

What I was saying is that I don't find disincentive through potential debt of attending law school because I wouldn't attend law school to simply raise my standard of living, but because I have a legitimate interest in law even if my take home yields 40-50k a year after loan repayment for entry level work

What was the point in posting your opinion to me? I came on this board to seek advice and help, but what I got was your pretentious insult which is severely un-needed. I was homeless at 15, worked 32 hours a week all four years of my undergraduate, and now I'm about to complete an extremely rigorous program. So keep the way you view my outlook on life to yourself

Your inability to cop more than a 3.0 in an MA program (despite it's undoubted ULTRA RIGOR) and your inability to yank the chain when it comes to your family rightfully gives a reader pause for concern, IMO. Also, this site is in general anti- paying 250K for a school with employment outcomes as poor as BU's (not saying they are poor in a vacuum, they are objectively decent, but not worth 250K). TLS is also anti- paying the interest tax bomb at the end of income repayment and also a bit suspicious about that program in general if you can avoid being on it (which you can if you just get a good LSAT score, which isn't that hard to do). I'm kind of agnostic on IBR/PAYE myself, I would need to know more, maybe I should find an economist to ask?

Anyway, relax duder

People get mad when you challenge their underlying assumptions that they're not comfortable challenging on their own. Better now than after a 3 years, debt, and a near useless degree.

I have to tell you that for someone with a BS in Economics (Burned alive in Econometrics 1,thus no MA for me lol), I would advise you to get into the best school you can.

Law is different from Economics. A highly application based program at BU would not be the same as a theory heavy program. Economics in law (from what I see as a 1L) tends to be theoretical.

If you want to practice law where an econ background would actually be helpful, T20 or bust.

Also, think about the opportunity costs of law...loss of 3 years of income, incurring debt, psychological costs, etc. Not knowing where you will end up, etc. Very expensive.

It would suck royally to get a MA in Economics and the only job you get is chasing ambulances or you end up in a job in which only the MA was really needed.

corgi_economist wrote:

This is so dumb. Yeah you might not care about being wealthy and want to enjoy what you do, but when you can't make the interest payments on your loans you will think differently. It will impede you from buying a home, or a car. Getting married or having kids. You just seem like you are afraid to enter the real world, tbh.

Well aren't you pretty fucking rude? You don't know what my current debt levels, any financial plan of action I'm looking to take, or what trade off of perspective income I'm looking at. Funding law school through student loans on an IBR plan schedules payment at 15% of discretionary incomes, or paying the fastest way possible would have me paying an estimated 1200 a month or reduce my yearly take home by a little under 15k a year for 10 years, or I could choose to get into public service to which I would do 10 year consistent minimum payments until the amount is forgiven.

What I was saying is that I don't find disincentive through potential debt of attending law school because I wouldn't attend law school to simply raise my standard of living, but because I have a legitimate interest in law even if my take home yields 40-50k a year after loan repayment for entry level work

What was the point in posting your opinion to me? I came on this board to seek advice and help, but what I got was your pretentious insult which is severely un-needed. I was homeless at 15, worked 32 hours a week all four years of my undergraduate, and now I'm about to complete an extremely rigorous program. So keep the way you view my outlook on life to yourself

lol, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. When you say you would spend $1200 a month paying back loans making $50k, do you understand how that sounds dumb though? You should understand that math, with all of the rigor you do. The PSLF is a nice safety net, but what if you can't land a job doing that? That's not a guaranteed position from BU.

You came for advice and I gave it to you. You just didn't like it.

corgi_economist wrote:I was seeing mostly if there is any harm for when I do retake my LSAT in june and apply then by just sending through an application with my current credentials(excluding the obvious costs associated with applying)

Apps don't even become available until September, so this question is moot.