Top Law Schools

First off, many thanks to swordking90 for the median thread. I'm aware of the downward trend in LS applications, LSAT takers, etc but I am curious to see how it applies to a situation like mine and moreover how long will "this" continue? So I am planning on delaying graduation by a semester or two to raise my GPA to my target school's median. I could graduate in 2 semesters from now, but this would (realistically, not assuming a 4.0 every semester) land me at the 25% of my target school's GPA. An extra semester or two (at most) will land me at the median of my target. I have been working diligently for some time now toward the LSAT, this has yielded me PT scores at or slightly above the school's median with an outlier 6 points above the (updated) median LSAT. I am wondering if I am shooting myself in the foot by delaying graduation considering current LS trends. I feel that if I convert my outlier score it will prove to be valuable considering current trends, even with a 25% GPA. Another part of me feels that applying with a median GPA and a slightly above median LSAT will be invaluable, and it will be less of a do or die situation regarding the conversion of a 75% LSAT score. Is this downward trend going anywhere anytime soon? Considering my target has lowered it's median by a point is it best to strike while the iron is hot, or should I delay graduation to hit dat median GPA?

TL;DR:
-Will things get worse in LS admission land (next 2 years), or is now the time to strike?
-I ask this because I could delay graduation to hit my target schools median GPA.

I know there will be some raise your gpa /thread comments, but I am also looking for some insight into admission trends and how they will tie into my situation.

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I know there will be some raise your gpa /thread comments, but I am also looking for some insight into admission trends and how they will tie into my situation.

Nobody really has the insight you're looking for. We know what you know: Applicant numbers have been falling steadily for a few years now. They might be bottoming out; they might not. It's impossible to make a prediction that isn't complete speculation.

Here's what we do know: A higher GPA will always be better for your application, and a slight increase in competition will not negate that fact. If you can raise your GPA, do that. Don't worry about the competitiveness of the applicant pool, which is something you can't control. Worry about the strength of your application, which you can control.

ETA: Even if the competitiveness of the applicant pool increases, the school's GPA median will likely not change significantly. It's obviously way better to be at the median than the 25th.

GreenTee wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I know there will be some raise your gpa /thread comments, but I am also looking for some insight into admission trends and how they will tie into my situation.

Nobody really has the insight you're looking for. We know what you know: Applicant numbers have been falling steadily for a few years now. They might be bottoming out; they might not. It's impossible to make a prediction that isn't complete speculation.

Here's what we do know: A higher GPA will always be better for your application, and a slight increase in competition will not negate that fact. If you can raise your GPA, do that. Don't worry about the competitiveness of the applicant pool, which is something you can't control. Worry about the strength of your application, which you can control.

i.e. In my situation it would be worth delaying graduation to raise my GPA? Money is not really an issue as my school is dirt cheap. Will delaying signal an inabity to handle workload? I'm not applying to HYS, but close enough where I would assume adcomms would take that into consideration.

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

GreenTee wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I know there will be some raise your gpa /thread comments, but I am also looking for some insight into admission trends and how they will tie into my situation.

Nobody really has the insight you're looking for. We know what you know: Applicant numbers have been falling steadily for a few years now. They might be bottoming out; they might not. It's impossible to make a prediction that isn't complete speculation.

Here's what we do know: A higher GPA will always be better for your application, and a slight increase in competition will not negate that fact. If you can raise your GPA, do that. Don't worry about the competitiveness of the applicant pool, which is something you can't control. Worry about the strength of your application, which you can control.

i.e. In my situation it would be worth delaying graduation to raise my GPA? Money is not really an issue as my school is dirt cheap. Will delaying signal an inabity to handle workload? I'm not applying to HYS, but close enough where I would assume adcomms would take that into consideration.

They will likely not care at all about this, provided that your GPA is at or above median. The number is the important thing. Everything else is secondary.

.

ChemEng1642 wrote:

GreenTee wrote: They will likely not care at all about this, provided that your GPA is at or above median. The number is the important thing. Everything else is secondary.

How did your cycle go chemeng? I'm probably going to end up with stats very similar to yours. Only difference is that your major is more difficult than mine

.

ChemEng1642 wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

ChemEng1642 wrote:

GreenTee wrote: They will likely not care at all about this, provided that your GPA is at or above median. The number is the important thing. Everything else is secondary.

How did your cycle go chemeng? I'm probably going to end up with stats very similar to yours. Only difference is that your major is more difficult than mine

It has not gone yet! But I know that the instant I started looking up the GPA medians for the schools I wanted to go to I wished I had done things to boost my GPA more

Good luck buddy....all the best. I'm guessing CCN is on your list?

.

ChemEng1642 wrote:yep - you?

Yes minus Chicago. I really want NYU for a number of reasons so I will be ED there unless I really knock the LSAT out cold. I think you have a great shot at NYU, I haven't done much research into the others but it seems that a 3.6 171 does the trick there. Good luck

P.S I like the fact that NYU and Columbia are not GPA whores. 2 of the 5 classes I am taking this semester are graded using a group project and let's just say my groups are not really up to par. I think the LSAT is the most accurate representation of a potential LS candidate.

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I think the LSAT is the most accurate representation of a potential LS candidate.

Funny how splitters think that and reverse splitters think the contrary. Just a correlation though. I'm sure there's nothing to it.

pancakes3 wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I think the LSAT is the most accurate representation of a potential LS candidate.

Funny how splitters think that and reverse splitters think the contrary. Just a correlation though. I'm sure there's nothing to it.

This is groundbreaking research...you may want to not apply to/leave LS to write a dissertation on the matter.

EDIT: Not to mention your categorization of me flys out the window when I complete an extra semester and fall comfortably in the GPA median. At that point I still bet I feel the way I do now.

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

pancakes3 wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I think the LSAT is the most accurate representation of a potential LS candidate.

Funny how splitters think that and reverse splitters think the contrary. Just a correlation though. I'm sure there's nothing to it.

This is groundbreaking research...you may want to not apply to/leave LS to write a dissertation on the matter.

EDIT: Not to mention your categorization of me flys out the window when I complete an extra semester and fall comfortably in the GPA median. At that point I still bet I feel the way I do now.

Just because I'm feeling petty,

1) I'm sure it flies out the window too.
2) Even if we accept your feels as fact and the LSAT is the most accurate representation, it does not mean GPA has no probative value
3) Hey man, it's not my characterization; It's your own damn screen name.

pancakes3 wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

pancakes3 wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote: I think the LSAT is the most accurate representation of a potential LS candidate.

Funny how splitters think that and reverse splitters think the contrary. Just a correlation though. I'm sure there's nothing to it.

This is groundbreaking research...you may want to not apply to/leave LS to write a dissertation on the matter.

EDIT: Not to mention your categorization of me flys out the window when I complete an extra semester and fall comfortably in the GPA median. At that point I still bet I feel the way I do now.

Just because I'm feeling petty,

1) I'm sure it flies out the window too.
2) Even if we accept your feels as fact and the LSAT is the most accurate representation, it does not mean GPA has no probative value
3) Hey man, it's not my characterization; It's your own damn screen name.

I used the phrase "I think," this is obviously not fact...I also never even mentioned or alluded to the fact that GPA has NO probable value. Your 2nd point is just completely fucked.

.

It really depends. If you are already close to your target school's median, and staying an extra year would get you there, then I say go for it.

But say that your GPA is a 3.5 at the end of the year and your target school's GPA is around a 3.7. In that scenario I wouldn't stay in school another year because even if you got straight A's, your GPA would fall short of median. The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6 isn't huge if both numbers are below a school's median. You'd be better off studying for the LSAT full time or getting work experience.

Moneytrees wrote:It really depends. If you are already close to your target school's median, and staying an extra year would get you there, then I say go for it.

But say that your GPA is a 3.5 at the end of the year and your target school's GPA is around a 3.7. In that scenario I wouldn't stay in school another year because even if you got straight A's, your GPA would fall short of median. The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6 isn't huge if both numbers are below a school's median. You'd be better off studying for the LSAT full time or getting work experience.

I agree. Plus if your GPA is already not amazing idk if you should be expecting to kill it with another year, you never know what could come up.

scottidsntknow wrote:

Moneytrees wrote:It really depends. If you are already close to your target school's median, and staying an extra year would get you there, then I say go for it.

But say that your GPA is a 3.5 at the end of the year and your target school's GPA is around a 3.7. In that scenario I wouldn't stay in school another year because even if you got straight A's, your GPA would fall short of median. The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6 isn't huge if both numbers are below a school's median. You'd be better off studying for the LSAT full time or getting work experience.

I agree. Plus if your GPA is already not amazing idk if you should be expecting to kill it with another year, you never know what could come up.

Both of these narratives have played out in my mind. In regards to moneytrees: I would probably finish up (no extra semesters) with a 3.58. My target school's median is a 3.6X. I think an extra semester would be able to get me there. In regards to Scotti: I can definitely see your point. The reason I want to do the extra time is because I had 2 cluster-fuck semesters in a row due to a problem that I will be potentially addressing with an addendum. All of my other semesters in college have been on target with where I need to be. I figure that an extra year could offset this "cluster-fuck" and also show consecutive, solid, and upward trending performance. Any thoughts?

I'm in kind of a unique situation because of the fact that I don't really incur any debt in UG (sizeable scholarship, live at home). If I take another major which is around 32 credits I could also keep my scholarship, and that would probably get me to where I need to be. I really think that's the road that I am leaning toward.

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:

Moneytrees wrote:It really depends. If you are already close to your target school's median, and staying an extra year would get you there, then I say go for it.

But say that your GPA is a 3.5 at the end of the year and your target school's GPA is around a 3.7. In that scenario I wouldn't stay in school another year because even if you got straight A's, your GPA would fall short of median. The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6 isn't huge if both numbers are below a school's median. You'd be better off studying for the LSAT full time or getting work experience.

I agree. Plus if your GPA is already not amazing idk if you should be expecting to kill it with another year, you never know what could come up.

Both of these narratives have played out in my mind. In regards to moneytrees: I would probably finish up (no extra semesters) with a 3.58. My target school's median is a 3.6X. I think an extra semester would be able to get me there. In regards to Scotti: I can definitely see your point. The reason I want to do the extra time is because I had 2 cluster-fuck semesters in a row due to a problem that I will be potentially addressing with an addendum. All of my other semesters in college have been on target with where I need to be. I figure that an extra year could offset this "cluster-fuck" and also show consecutive, solid, and upward trending performance. Any thoughts?

I mean, I'm just saying you never know what could come up during the next academic year, so personally I wouldn't bank on it. I'd take the time to retake the LSAT if needed and get some work experience over spending another year in school.

scottidsntknow wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:

Moneytrees wrote:It really depends. If you are already close to your target school's median, and staying an extra year would get you there, then I say go for it.

But say that your GPA is a 3.5 at the end of the year and your target school's GPA is around a 3.7. In that scenario I wouldn't stay in school another year because even if you got straight A's, your GPA would fall short of median. The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6 isn't huge if both numbers are below a school's median. You'd be better off studying for the LSAT full time or getting work experience.

I agree. Plus if your GPA is already not amazing idk if you should be expecting to kill it with another year, you never know what could come up.

Both of these narratives have played out in my mind. In regards to moneytrees: I would probably finish up (no extra semesters) with a 3.58. My target school's median is a 3.6X. I think an extra semester would be able to get me there. In regards to Scotti: I can definitely see your point. The reason I want to do the extra time is because I had 2 cluster-fuck semesters in a row due to a problem that I will be potentially addressing with an addendum. All of my other semesters in college have been on target with where I need to be. I figure that an extra year could offset this "cluster-fuck" and also show consecutive, solid, and upward trending performance. Any thoughts?

I mean, I'm just saying you never know what could come up during the next academic year, so personally I wouldn't bank on it. I'd take the time to retake the LSAT if needed and get some work experience over spending another year in school.

Do you still feel that way considering my post above? If I was paying any real money for school or incurring debt I would be completley on board with that. I also should have mentioned that I have a pretty nice job now, I do most of my work from home. I was planning on staying there until LS in part because it's probably my best soft. 4 years with the same company and I have an essential role in the company. I guess what I'm trying to say is that my situation isn't so bad so I really don't mind staying to hit the median. Do you feel that adcomms would hold this against me (late graduation)? That's really the only thing that concerns me but the common knowledge here is that they won't. Thanks again

They wouldn't hold it against you.

scottidsntknow wrote:

hopefulsplitter93 wrote:

scottidsntknow wrote:

Moneytrees wrote:It really depends. If you are already close to your target school's median, and staying an extra year would get you there, then I say go for it.

But say that your GPA is a 3.5 at the end of the year and your target school's GPA is around a 3.7. In that scenario I wouldn't stay in school another year because even if you got straight A's, your GPA would fall short of median. The difference between a 3.5 and a 3.6 isn't huge if both numbers are below a school's median. You'd be better off studying for the LSAT full time or getting work experience.

I agree. Plus if your GPA is already not amazing idk if you should be expecting to kill it with another year, you never know what could come up.

Both of these narratives have played out in my mind. In regards to moneytrees: I would probably finish up (no extra semesters) with a 3.58. My target school's median is a 3.6X. I think an extra semester would be able to get me there. In regards to Scotti: I can definitely see your point. The reason I want to do the extra time is because I had 2 cluster-fuck semesters in a row due to a problem that I will be potentially addressing with an addendum. All of my other semesters in college have been on target with where I need to be. I figure that an extra year could offset this "cluster-fuck" and also show consecutive, solid, and upward trending performance. Any thoughts?

I mean, I'm just saying you never know what could come up during the next academic year, so personally I wouldn't bank on it. I'd take the time to retake the LSAT if needed and get some work experience over spending another year in school.

I think what scottidsntknow is saying is that you dont know what can happen next year. Maybe everything works as planned and you get your GPA up to where you want it. Maybe you or someone in your family gets sick or something else out of your hands happen which will impact your life and school. Maybe something happens where you get arrested and now have to include a C&F response which negates your positive GPA. There are so many unknowns in life, that even if in your mind everything indicates you will get the GPA you want, you shouldnt count your chickens until they hatch. There are plenty of examples on this forum of when life didnt go as planned.

I also think scottidsntknow is saying that you dont have two choice -- continue with school or go straight to law school. There are other ways outside of a GPA which can demonstrate growth, leadership, and other attributes that Law Schools value. I'm not saying what you should do, but rather just throwing out other considerations.

I think staying in school for another year is a good idea. Gun hard and take as many easy classes as you can, and make sure to squeeze every point possible out of the LSAT. As for admission trends, the best leading indicator of law school applicants is the number of LSAT takers, and that continues to decline. Down 9.1% YOY in June and we'll see in the next couple of weeks about the most recent test.

Tiago Splitter wrote:I think staying in school for another year is a good idea. Gun hard and take as many easy classes as you can, and make sure to squeeze every point possible out of the LSAT. As for admission trends, the best leading indicator of law school applicants is the number of LSAT takers, and that continues to decline. Down 9.1% YOY in June and we'll see in the next couple of weeks about the most recent test.

You addressed every one of my inquiries....someone did well on RC thanks dude