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So I'm interested in the Rubenstein and Hamilton (I know, who isn't?) and I think my numbers are pretty competitive for both. What, according to TLS wisdom, are the additional attributes besides numbers that people who've gotten these scholarships have? Would it be wise to include a why Chicago/Columbia addenda? I can see arguments for and against "Why X" in this case.

Getting into HYS seems to be the ticket, most often. They probably don't care about whether you want to come to Chicago or Columbia. They just want your numbers or your PhD and are probably more likely to give you the scholarship if they don't think you want to go there -- they need to think the scholarship is necessary to get you to stay.

Tanicius wrote:Getting into HYS seems to be the ticket, most often. They probably don't care about whether you want to come to Chicago or Columbia. They just want your numbers or your PhD and are probably more likely to give you the scholarship if they don't think you want to go there -- they need to think the scholarship is necessary to get you to stay.

Over a thousand people gain admission to "HYS", whereas only about 40 (possibly less) are offered a Rubenstein or Hamilton fellowship. Safe to say thats a necessary but hardly sufficient condition - certainly not a "ticket."

And they will target students who might actually want to attend, although "Why X" statement certainly isn't the answer: these aren't YP schools, they want high quality students to attend as Tanicius said.

Generally for Hamilton, 175+/3.8x+ is required. For Rubenstein, its a little more difficult to predict, but at least 3.9/173. Other qualities include attending a prestigious undergraduate college or university; strong work experience (such as major journalism work or a notable fellowship) or very active college participation in social justice; publications; and other graduate degrees, among other accomplishments.

(source: besides TLS and meeting candidates, I've evaluated applications for several student orgs and competitive activities and seen the resumes and backgrounds of Hamilton fellows).

Over a thousand people gain admission to "HYS", whereas only about 40 (possibly less) are offered a Rubenstein or Hamilton fellowship. Safe to say thats a necessary but hardly sufficient condition - certainly not a "ticket."

Yeah I didn't mean to say it was at all sufficient. More of a requirement. If someone has a 4.0/180 but doesn't gain entrance to HYS, the rest of the T-14 are rationally going to be less energetic in their efforts to retain that applicant.

Out of pure curiousity (obviously has no bearing on chances), but if an applicant rejects a Hamilton/Rubenstein, does it then get offered to another candidate?

Tanicius wrote:

Over a thousand people gain admission to "HYS", whereas only about 40 (possibly less) are offered a Rubenstein or Hamilton fellowship. Safe to say thats a necessary but hardly sufficient condition - certainly not a "ticket."

Yeah I didn't mean to say it was at all sufficient. More of a requirement. If someone has a 4.0/180 but doesn't gain entrance to HYS, the rest of the T-14 are rationally going to be less energetic in their efforts to retain that applicant.

thats definitely true. although it does assume perfect information on the part of the adcoms. I'm sure they talk shop since many of the deans are friendly with each other but they probably don't delve into the minutiae of each student.

blueberrycrumble wrote:Out of pure curiousity (obviously has no bearing on chances), but if an applicant rejects a Hamilton/Rubenstein, does it then get offered to another candidate?

No clue about how the Hamilton works, but I know that Rubys are offered to other students after someone turns it down. Chicago has a set number of them that they give out per year.

Is the Rubenstein scholarship still being given out? I had read that it was only for three years beginning in 2011. Shouldn't it be over by now? Anyone have any insight?

js1663 wrote:Is the Rubenstein scholarship still being given out? I had read that it was only for three years beginning in 2011. Shouldn't it be over by now? Anyone have any insight?

It was renewed: http://news.uchicago.edu/article/2013/0 ... llion-gift

Tanicius wrote:

Over a thousand people gain admission to "HYS", whereas only about 40 (possibly less) are offered a Rubenstein or Hamilton fellowship. Safe to say thats a necessary but hardly sufficient condition - certainly not a "ticket."

Yeah I didn't mean to say it was at all sufficient. More of a requirement. If someone has a 4.0/180 but doesn't gain entrance to HYS, the rest of the T-14 are rationally going to be less energetic in their efforts to retain that applicant.

Am I the only one who thinks it's a little unrealistic that HYS shares with other T14 Deans who's been admitted? First of all, it seems that HYS would have an incentive to not share this info, obviously. Also it seems that there are just too many applicants to keep track of... it's not like they're sharing spreadsheets of applicants with each other. Am I missing something? How would the T14 know if you got into HYS? (Basically I'm concerned because I have HYS numbers but don't plan on applying to HYS because of the cost; I want to make sure this doesn't hurt my T14 scholarship chances.)

For many folks with numbers that make them competitive, it will be an interesting background or special story. But being likable and (relatedly) making sure you don't come across as thinking you are entitled to one of these scholarships based just on your numbers are pretty much necessary too.

jerseymike wrote:

Tanicius wrote:

Over a thousand people gain admission to "HYS", whereas only about 40 (possibly less) are offered a Rubenstein or Hamilton fellowship. Safe to say thats a necessary but hardly sufficient condition - certainly not a "ticket."

Yeah I didn't mean to say it was at all sufficient. More of a requirement. If someone has a 4.0/180 but doesn't gain entrance to HYS, the rest of the T-14 are rationally going to be less energetic in their efforts to retain that applicant.

Am I the only one who thinks it's a little unrealistic that HYS shares with other T14 Deans who's been admitted? First of all, it seems that HYS would have an incentive to not share this info, obviously. Also it seems that there are just too many applicants to keep track of... it's not like they're sharing spreadsheets of applicants with each other. Am I missing something? How would the T14 know if you got into HYS? (Basically I'm concerned because I have HYS numbers but don't plan on applying to HYS because of the cost; I want to make sure this doesn't hurt my T14 scholarship chances.)

no you're not. see my post above. but for scholarship negotiation purposes, Tanicius is right in the sense that an offer from a peer or "higher ranked" school can sometimes help procure a stronger offer.

personally, I'd say you should apply to all the top programs, including harvard and stanford, if you have the numbers for it. you never know what need based aid they might provide, or what you could potentially do with the offer to negotiate. you could also randomly hit the WL at some of CCN and have less options than you thought. but its up to you

Emma. wrote:For many folks with numbers that make them competitive, it will be an interesting background or special story. But being likable and (relatedly) making sure you don't come across as thinking you are entitled to one of these scholarships based just on your numbers are pretty much necessary too.

For example, don't enter an admitted students online chat with the admissions team, use your real name, and ask questions like "What advice would you give to someone who would only attend UChicago with a full-tuition scholarship?"

Dany wrote:

Emma. wrote:For many folks with numbers that make them competitive, it will be an interesting background or special story. But being likable and (relatedly) making sure you don't come across as thinking you are entitled to one of these scholarships based just on your numbers are pretty much necessary too.

For example, don't enter an admitted students online chat with the admissions team, use your real name, and ask questions like "What advice would you give to someone who would only attend UChicago with a full-tuition scholarship?"

Law students make me so sad sometimes

Can't speak to the Ruby, but I know two Hamiltons. One has a Rhodes, the other was a Harvard College Scholar. So yeah, good luck. Not that you always need that level but...still.

Getting the Hamilton (or the Ruby) is the single hardest thing in the law school admissions game. To put it in perspective, start with a 3.8/176, top 20 UG, and notable awards...and THEN get relatively lucky after that.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Can't speak to the Ruby, but I know two Hamiltons. One has a Rhodes, the other was a Harvard College Scholar. So yeah, good luck. Not that you always need that level but...still.

Getting the Hamilton (or the Ruby) is the single hardest thing in the law school admissions game. To put it in perspective, start with a 3.8/176, top 20 UG, and notable awards...and THEN get relatively lucky after that.

This is not necessary for a Ruby.

Dany wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Can't speak to the Ruby, but I know two Hamiltons. One has a Rhodes, the other was a Harvard College Scholar. So yeah, good luck. Not that you always need that level but...still.

Getting the Hamilton (or the Ruby) is the single hardest thing in the law school admissions game. To put it in perspective, start with a 3.8/176, top 20 UG, and notable awards...and THEN get relatively lucky after that.

This is not necessary for a Ruby.

Neither are "notable awards."

Didn't mean to imply any single was "necessary" (I doubt there are hard cutoffs on anything), but rather that those things that will be typical of full-ride students. Also, I freely admit not knowing anyone with a Ruby (although I can't imagine the types of students who get them are all that different).

Dany wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Can't speak to the Ruby, but I know two Hamiltons. One has a Rhodes, the other was a Harvard College Scholar. So yeah, good luck. Not that you always need that level but...still.

Getting the Hamilton (or the Ruby) is the single hardest thing in the law school admissions game. To put it in perspective, start with a 3.8/176, top 20 UG, and notable awards...and THEN get relatively lucky after that.

This is not necessary for a Ruby.

I know a few people with Rubys and they all won the numbers game, but none were Rhodes scholars or anything crazy like that. Most went to public UG institutions. Most have prior WE.

They all have very warm personalities and are well liked. There is an interview that you have to go through as part of the admissions process, and I am sure it plays a factor in determining Rubys to some extent as well.

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MistakenGenius wrote:

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:Can't speak to the Ruby, but I know two Hamiltons. One has a Rhodes, the other was a Harvard College Scholar. So yeah, good luck. Not that you always need that level but...still.

Getting the Hamilton (or the Ruby) is the single hardest thing in the law school admissions game. To put it in perspective, start with a 3.8/176, top 20 UG, and notable awards...and THEN get relatively lucky after that.

This is just not true. I got the Hamilton myself. I did not quite have a 3.8, did not go to a T20 UG, and really didn't have "notable awards" in the traditional sense. It's extremely misleading to insinuate that you have to pass some sort of silly checklist of achievements, when it's not true at all.

that may be so, and I don't think there's a categorical laundry list, but the numerous hamilton fellows we've met IRL have all been rather impressive individuals besides their grades in college and their test scores, and they all happened to attend elite universities. This isn't to say there's no room for variance, but its the dominant trend.