FIU Law awards JD to convicted felon Forum

[Young Marino]

Wasn't sure where to put this but it's an interesting read. Good for the student but probably bad for the school because chances are nobody will hire him and now as a prospective student of FIU Law, I am not sure how I feel about this school granting admission to felons. It's great that the guy turned his life around but it's pretty sketchy of FIU to associate themselves with a convicted felon

http://t.miamitimesonline.com/news/2014 ... aw-degree/

[eriedoctrine]

Wow...

[xRON MEXiCOx]

Tulane awarded a JD to a convicted murderer.

[cbateman212]

I'm not sure of intent here, but so what?? It's as if a "convicted felon" is inherently barred from society... Fortunately our presumptuous attitudes towards people we don't venture to know/understand are changing.

[Hipster but Athletic]

I'm not sure of intent here, but so what?? It's as if a "convicted felon" is inherently barred from society... Fortunately our presumptuous attitudes towards people we don't venture to know/understand are changing.

Don't compare general society to the bar dude.

[Incubateus]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm not sure of intent here, but so what?? It's as if a "convicted felon" is inherently barred from society... Fortunately our presumptuous attitudes towards people we don't venture to know/understand are changing.

Don't compare general society to the bar dude.

There's a difference between saying "this person might have a problem getting admitted to the bar" and saying "I don't know if the school should be associated with this person," though.

[Ded Precedent]

Not at all surprised Florida has some retarded law that completely thwarts the attempts of reformed convicts to reintegrate into the community.

[Hipster but Athletic]

I'm not sure of intent here, but so what?? It's as if a "convicted felon" is inherently barred from society... Fortunately our presumptuous attitudes towards people we don't venture to know/understand are changing.

Don't compare general society to the bar dude.

There's a difference between saying "this person might have a problem getting admitted to the bar" and saying "I don't know if the school should be associated with this person," though.

I agree. This thread lacks nuance. I think the shock is probably appropriate but the reasoning may be a bit off.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Not at all surprised Florida has some retarded law that completely thwarts the attempts of reformed convicts to reintegrate into the community.

Nony: how about this guy? Would you agree he's undermining the prestige of the bar too much?

[NYSprague]

I honestly don't see why they'd bother to write an article about him. He's nothing special.
Graduating with a degree from that school with that much debt can get anyone to fall towards drugs, suicide, etc.

I think it is to be inspirational to people. You know, that instead of suicide -getting killed by a train, he has changed his life.

I don't think he can have debt: you can't borrow from the government if you have drug convictions. At least I think so.
I didn't see a number of how much he owes in skimming the article.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

[Ded Precedent]

Not at all surprised Florida has some retarded law that completely thwarts the attempts of reformed convicts to reintegrate into the community.

Nony: how about this guy? Would you agree he's undermining the prestige of the bar too much?

Wasn't speaking directly to the bars determination of his fitness to practice but more to this part:

A convicted felon, he is unable to practice law in Florida, because of the state’s disenfranchisement law that revokes civil rights of convicted felons. Additionally, Florida citizens with criminal records cannot vote, run for political office, serve as a juror or possess firearms. Florida is only one of three states with such laws...

[jkhalfa]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

[NYSprague]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

He should be able to have a hearing to determine fitness, even if denied.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

So you don't think that someone can pay for their crime and learn from their mistakes and improve themselves, then? No second chances for anyone, ever?

[Incubateus]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

If he wasn't ready to live in society, then don't let him. In my book, if you served your time you're done. If not you haven't been rehabilitated enough and should not be let out.

[jkhalfa]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

He should be able to have a hearing to determine fitness, even if denied.

I guess that would be better than a heavy-handed zero tolerance policy, as long as it was understood that committing a felony kills your bar chances in 99% of cases.

I was more remarking on the "antiquated society" comment.

[jkhalfa]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

If he wasn't ready to live in society, then don't let him. In my book, if you served your time you're done. If not you haven't been rehabilitated enough and should not be let out.

Being a lawyer is a very special case of "living in society." He could get lots of other jobs.

Also, I tend to think rules like this prevent crimes. Now I know a lot of people disagree with that, but--for rational people at least--the promise of severe punishment does change behavior. I know I personally have abstained from some risky things because I don't want to fuck up my law school / career prospects. So potentially off-topic I guess, but I think punishments like the bar rule and prison time have a primarily preventative benefit, not a rehabilitative one.

[Young Marino]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

So you don't think that someone can pay for their crime and learn from their mistakes and improve themselves, then? No second chances for anyone, ever?

Nony, with all due respect, this guy had multiple opportunities to improve his life and was in and out of jail for most of his adult life. If he can't be admitted to the bar what was the point of going to law school? My point is, this was a stupid move on the part of FIU Law because 1) why would you award a degree to somebody who can't utilize it- felon or not. And 2) I got into FIU and after reading this article I won't go because I don't want my school to be associating with convicted felons (although I already had my mind made up that I wasn't going to FIU). That just looks bad on the school's part. I feel like emailing the dean on this to get some sort of reason as to why they would allow a convicted felon to roam the halls of their institution and post the reply in the fiu law class of 2017 thread

[Question Everything]

Who cares. What an antiquated society.

You don't think that being convicted of a fucking felony says something about your character?

I hate this trend where judging anyone or anything makes you "antiquated." So many progressives seem to be nihilists at heart.

If he wasn't ready to live in society, then don't let him. In my book, if you served your time you're done. If not you haven't been rehabilitated enough and should not be let out.

Being a lawyer is a very special case of "living in society." He could get lots of other jobs.

Also, I tend to think rules like this prevent crimes. Now I know a lot of people disagree with that, but--for rational people at least--the promise of severe punishment does change behavior. I know I personally have abstained from some risky things because I don't want to fuck up my law school / career prospects. So potentially off-topic I guess, but I think punishments like the bar rule and prison time have a primarily preventative benefit, not a rehabilitative one.

There's absolutely no empirical evidence that disenfranchisement laws have a deterrent effect. To believe otherwise greatly overestimates the forethought of most criminal behavior.

[CoffeeIsLife]

He should have a second chance. That's the point of serving his time. It isn't like FIU is the only school to allow a felon. Someone already mentioned the man that is going to Tulane after murdering a professor at his college back in the Northeast.

Oregon allowed a man who had felony charges to go: http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ ... erxml.html

University of Washington allowed a felon, bank robber to go to school: http://www.omaha.com/news/unlikely-new- ... afc76.html

So if a school associated with a student with a felony record you wouldn't want to be associated with that school?

Is it really that much different from people who went to a law school, passed the bar, begin working as judges, or attorneys and then commit crimes? Florida has had a rough stretch with judges getting into run ins with the law in the past year. Should you avoid any school those judges went to?

[TheSpanishMain]

I got into FIU and after reading this article I won't go because I don't want my school to be associating with convicted felons

I bet they regret this knowing that it cost them your attendance.

I feel like emailing the dean on this to get some sort of reason as to why they would allow a convicted felon to roam the halls of their institution and post the reply in the fiu law class of 2017 thread

Yes, please keep trolling the Acceptances, Denials and Waitlists Forum.

[Dafaq]

In there a case where a convicted felon gained admission to a T14? I am guessing no.

[CoffeeIsLife]

In there a case where a convicted felon gained admission to a T14? I am guessing no.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/symp ... -1.1314353

Not an admission, but a felon associated with NYU Law.

http://www.law.nyu.edu/news/SHEINBERG_L ... THY_BOUDIN

[A. Nony Mouse]

Nony, with all due respect, this guy had multiple opportunities to improve his life and was in and out of jail for most of his adult life. If he can't be admitted to the bar what was the point of going to law school? My point is, this was a stupid move on the part of FIU Law because 1) why would you award a degree to somebody who can't utilize it- felon or not. And 2) I got into FIU and after reading this article I won't go because I don't want my school to be associating with convicted felons (although I already had my mind made up that I wasn't going to FIU). That just looks bad on the school's part. I feel like emailing the dean on this to get some sort of reason as to why they would allow a convicted felon to roam the halls of their institution and post the reply in the fiu law class of 2017 thread

Well, in his case, it seems clearly he wants to work on more policy-related issues about convicted felons and the criminal justice system, so it doesn't sound like he has to practice, and the JD would give him credibility in that context. Just because he's not admitted to practice doesn't mean he's not using his degree in any way. (Note: in most cases I wouldn't advocate going to law school for this purpose, but that's because in most cases people who say they plan to do this don't really have any idea of what they want to do or why. And it's something I wouldn't advise people to do, not something I would want law schools to decide for their applicants.)

And your attitude about "associating" with convicted felons is one of the reasons people coming out of prison struggle to find work and replace bad habits/associates with more productive ones. He committed crimes, he was convicted, he served his sentences. For something like law school, that should be sufficient.